Anonymous
05/09/2021 18:46
Subject: Re:ECNL Team Fees
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The 6-10k number is for real. Here is a rough breakdown for a typical year (i.e. not a COVID year). Overnight stays are based on an average of $250/night stay to include hotel, gas, meals. You might spend more or less. Keep in mind that for teams that bus, as a parent, you pay for your kids bus ride, a shared hotel room, and meals. Then you have to get your own room and travel if you plan to go. You might be closer to $6k if you don't go yourself. Note that this does not include any personal training or national finals.
Club dues $2500
team fees $800 team fees (coach travel, referees, video service, incidentals)
uniforms and equipment $200
four league game weekend trips @ $500 ea, $2000 (there are 8 out of state teams in girls MA, each weekend you play two teams, requiring two overnight stays)
three showcase weekend trips @500 each, $1500
1 week trip to national playoffs/showcase, 7 nights@$250, $1750
total $8750
And yet honestly...all the silly travel does not help them improve their soccer. It is a very very wasteful system that is about running a biz and not really about finding and developing soccer talent. If this was the way to find and develop soccer talent, other places would do it and yet..NONE of the great soccer countries do this.
That said. It is what it is and there is no other option for higher level play here unless you have a boy in a funded academy. It is soccer for well off players with very very few exceptions.
The US is different from the other "great soccer countries". Their methods do not work here, and vice versa. It is what it is, if you can afford it, go for it. If not, there are other avenues.
Despite all of this, this system is working, and is keeping the college and NWSL ranks flush with talent (talking girls side here). You can't say that soccer talent isn't being developed amidst all of this.
I can absolutely say that take talent is not being well developed. You can't be serious. All that time driving and flying is a complete waste and it cuts out kids that could prove to be very sharp competitive training partners. It is really a stupid system but for girls, it is all there is.
It's easy to say development could be better but the fact is that all this travel really has nothing to do with that. Less or more travel would not produce better or worse players.
What is true is that the high cost does exclude some players. We might not be developing as many players as we could because of it, but if we lowered costs somehow, that would not change the level of play.
Anonymous
05/09/2021 18:23
Subject: Re:ECNL Team Fees
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The 6-10k number is for real. Here is a rough breakdown for a typical year (i.e. not a COVID year). Overnight stays are based on an average of $250/night stay to include hotel, gas, meals. You might spend more or less. Keep in mind that for teams that bus, as a parent, you pay for your kids bus ride, a shared hotel room, and meals. Then you have to get your own room and travel if you plan to go. You might be closer to $6k if you don't go yourself. Note that this does not include any personal training or national finals.
Club dues $2500
team fees $800 team fees (coach travel, referees, video service, incidentals)
uniforms and equipment $200
four league game weekend trips @ $500 ea, $2000 (there are 8 out of state teams in girls MA, each weekend you play two teams, requiring two overnight stays)
three showcase weekend trips @500 each, $1500
1 week trip to national playoffs/showcase, 7 nights@$250, $1750
total $8750
And yet honestly...all the silly travel does not help them improve their soccer. It is a very very wasteful system that is about running a biz and not really about finding and developing soccer talent. If this was the way to find and develop soccer talent, other places would do it and yet..NONE of the great soccer countries do this.
That said. It is what it is and there is no other option for higher level play here unless you have a boy in a funded academy. It is soccer for well off players with very very few exceptions.
The US is different from the other "great soccer countries". Their methods do not work here, and vice versa. It is what it is, if you can afford it, go for it. If not, there are other avenues.
Despite all of this, this system is working, and is keeping the college and NWSL ranks flush with talent (talking girls side here). You can't say that soccer talent isn't being developed amidst all of this.
I can absolutely say that take talent is not being well developed. You can't be serious. All that time driving and flying is a complete waste and it cuts out kids that could prove to be very sharp competitive training partners. It is really a stupid system but for girls, it is all there is.
Anonymous
05/09/2021 16:59
Subject: Re:ECNL Team Fees
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The 6-10k number is for real. Here is a rough breakdown for a typical year (i.e. not a COVID year). Overnight stays are based on an average of $250/night stay to include hotel, gas, meals. You might spend more or less. Keep in mind that for teams that bus, as a parent, you pay for your kids bus ride, a shared hotel room, and meals. Then you have to get your own room and travel if you plan to go. You might be closer to $6k if you don't go yourself. Note that this does not include any personal training or national finals.
Club dues $2500
team fees $800 team fees (coach travel, referees, video service, incidentals)
uniforms and equipment $200
four league game weekend trips @ $500 ea, $2000 (there are 8 out of state teams in girls MA, each weekend you play two teams, requiring two overnight stays)
three showcase weekend trips @500 each, $1500
1 week trip to national playoffs/showcase, 7 nights@$250, $1750
total $8750
And here's my breakdown:
Club fee $2500
Team fee $500
Uniform etc. $150
Weekend trips $150 x 4
Showcase weekends (2 local @ $0, 1 @ $300)
$4K.
Post-season on top of that which I agree can add more.
Check out how the club approaches this. Some aim to keep costs low, others aim for the travel magazine experience.
Your budget completely doesn't work for ECNL or GA because there are no local cheap showcases at $0 or $300. Even driving to PA (e.g., for the Penn Fusion Winter Showcase which is only 2 days over President's Day), will cost you $300 by the time you pay for gas, tolls, food, and at least one, if not two nights in a hotel. Going to the official ECNL or GA showcases which are definitely not easily drivable most of the time costs way more. I'm not sure why people are arguing about this topic - the cost is the cost. It sucks. It shouldn't be that way. But if you are in these leagues you don't "ask the club how it approaches this" and suggest "maybe you should go to a closer, local, less expensive showcase" and then my player will play for you. You know going in and you accept it. Can you be cost effective by eating PB&J, sure, but you can't make CA, TX, and FL closer than they are.
Anonymous
05/09/2021 16:58
Subject: ECNL Team Fees
Uniforms are more than $150
Anonymous
05/09/2021 16:47
Subject: Re:ECNL Team Fees
Anonymous wrote:The 6-10k number is for real. Here is a rough breakdown for a typical year (i.e. not a COVID year). Overnight stays are based on an average of $250/night stay to include hotel, gas, meals. You might spend more or less. Keep in mind that for teams that bus, as a parent, you pay for your kids bus ride, a shared hotel room, and meals. Then you have to get your own room and travel if you plan to go. You might be closer to $6k if you don't go yourself. Note that this does not include any personal training or national finals.
Club dues $2500
team fees $800 team fees (coach travel, referees, video service, incidentals)
uniforms and equipment $200
four league game weekend trips @ $500 ea, $2000 (there are 8 out of state teams in girls MA, each weekend you play two teams, requiring two overnight stays)
three showcase weekend trips @500 each, $1500
1 week trip to national playoffs/showcase, 7 nights@$250, $1750
total $8750
And here's my breakdown:
Club fee $2500
Team fee $500
Uniform etc. $150
Weekend trips $150 x 4
Showcase weekends (2 local @ $0, 1 @ $300)
$4K.
Post-season on top of that which I agree can add more.
Check out how the club approaches this. Some aim to keep costs low, others aim for the travel magazine experience.
Anonymous
05/09/2021 16:06
Subject: ECNL Team Fees
We budget 10K a yr and come in around that every year (sometimes under and sometimes over)
Anonymous
05/09/2021 16:06
Subject: ECNL Team Fees
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:How does that really vary from 6-10?!
If your player doesn’t go to any showcases
If the club chooses local showcases which are driveable. There are several showcases (Arlington, VDA, Loudoun all host one) right here in the DC area for example which entail no additional cost at all. There's an ECNL showcase in Richmond, and another in the Carolinas both of which are eminently driveable, plus the Jeff cup in Richmond.
Well we are talking about ECNL costs here, and in ECNL you can't just choose any old showcase. ECNL teams are required to attend 3 ECNL National showcases. The Richmond showcase is not an ECNL showcase, neither is Jeff Cup. The local showcases around here (even Jeff Cup) pale in comparison to an ECNL showcase in terms of average talent level and draw from colleges. I wish we could do these locally, but this is how it is right now.
Anonymous wrote:On the other hand, if your club likes to go to Florida or Colorado then you're on the hook for higher costs. Obviously if you qualify for national finals then you're going to have to pay for that too.
But also dont discount the overnight related costs for regular league games.
Not all that many of these though. Depends on how you roll - but we always leave early am rather than the stay the night before, and will stay one night for a weekend trip. This expense has always been <$500 for the entire year, and often around $200-$300.
In the mid-atlantic conference, unless they re-align, you'll have 4 weekends worth of away league games. The only way to do that for <500 is staying in fleabag motels and eating PBJ. Generally teams stay together in respectable hotels. Beyond that, there are a couple of reasons travel the day of the game doesn't generally work. For teams beyond U14, most teams do bus travel together (or did, before COVID). It's a team building thing. Second, your player won't be as effective after getting up early and spending 6 hrs in the car getting to NC or wherever. It will be obvious on the field.
Anonymous
05/09/2021 15:47
Subject: ECNL Team Fees
Anonymous wrote:PP talks about none of the great soccer countries do it the US way. Let’s narrow down the “great” men’s soccer countries. Brazil, Argentina, England, Germany, Italy, Spain, France, England, a Netherlands. 9 countries. I am not counting Croatia and Belgium who’ve had some recent but not long-term historical success. The one thing the great 9 have are ... wait for it ... great PRO leagues. The PRO clubs PAY for the top youths to play for their farm system. These teams also provide avenues for great Brazilian and Argentinian youths as well. Success then breeds success. These pro clubs actually pay significant salaries to their pros unlike MLS whose salaries are better than they used to be but nowhere near as high as NBA, NFL, and MLB. Until we have real pipelines into the Euro leagues like Brazil and Argentina because the majority of our kids live, eat and breath soccer (like they do b-ball and football here) we will always struggle. What Steph Curry can do with a b-ball is no different then what Messi does with a soccer ball. We just don’t foster that sort of commitment to the trade as the payoff and glamour here just isn’t ingrained in our youth like it is in the “great” soccer nations.
No and it never will be. There just isn't that level of commitment. MLS will never make NFL type money that is needed to fund this. So where is it going to come from. In US, soccer is a MC/UMC/Rich kid sport. It isn't in places like UK. What do well to do kids want to play (and do play in their private schools in UK now: Rugby, cricket, lacrosse, and to a lesser extent basketball. Not soccer. Money has to come from somewhere. Only place in US is from parents.
Anonymous
05/09/2021 15:11
Subject: ECNL Team Fees
Anonymous wrote:How does that really vary from 6-10?!
If your player doesn’t go to any showcases
If the club chooses local showcases which are driveable. There are several showcases (Arlington, VDA, Loudoun all host one) right here in the DC area for example which entail no additional cost at all. There's an ECNL showcase in Richmond, and another in the Carolinas both of which are eminently driveable, plus the Jeff cup in Richmond.
On the other hand, if your club likes to go to Florida or Colorado then you're on the hook for higher costs. Obviously if you qualify for national finals then you're going to have to pay for that too.
But also dont discount the overnight related costs for regular league games.
Not all that many of these though. Depends on how you roll - but we always leave early am rather than the stay the night before, and will stay one night for a weekend trip. This expense has always been <$500 for the entire year, and often around $200-$300.
Anonymous
05/09/2021 14:56
Subject: ECNL Team Fees
PP talks about none of the great soccer countries do it the US way. Let’s narrow down the “great” men’s soccer countries. Brazil, Argentina, England, Germany, Italy, Spain, France, England, a Netherlands. 9 countries. I am not counting Croatia and Belgium who’ve had some recent but not long-term historical success. The one thing the great 9 have are ... wait for it ... great PRO leagues. The PRO clubs PAY for the top youths to play for their farm system. These teams also provide avenues for great Brazilian and Argentinian youths as well. Success then breeds success. These pro clubs actually pay significant salaries to their pros unlike MLS whose salaries are better than they used to be but nowhere near as high as NBA, NFL, and MLB. Until we have real pipelines into the Euro leagues like Brazil and Argentina because the majority of our kids live, eat and breath soccer (like they do b-ball and football here) we will always struggle. What Steph Curry can do with a b-ball is no different then what Messi does with a soccer ball. We just don’t foster that sort of commitment to the trade as the payoff and glamour here just isn’t ingrained in our youth like it is in the “great” soccer nations.
Anonymous
05/09/2021 14:33
Subject: Re:ECNL Team Fees
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The 6-10k number is for real. Here is a rough breakdown for a typical year (i.e. not a COVID year). Overnight stays are based on an average of $250/night stay to include hotel, gas, meals. You might spend more or less. Keep in mind that for teams that bus, as a parent, you pay for your kids bus ride, a shared hotel room, and meals. Then you have to get your own room and travel if you plan to go. You might be closer to $6k if you don't go yourself. Note that this does not include any personal training or national finals.
Club dues $2500
team fees $800 team fees (coach travel, referees, video service, incidentals)
uniforms and equipment $200
four league game weekend trips @ $500 ea, $2000 (there are 8 out of state teams in girls MA, each weekend you play two teams, requiring two overnight stays)
three showcase weekend trips @500 each, $1500
1 week trip to national playoffs/showcase, 7 nights@$250, $1750
total $8750
And yet honestly...all the silly travel does not help them improve their soccer. It is a very very wasteful system that is about running a biz and not really about finding and developing soccer talent. If this was the way to find and develop soccer talent, other places would do it and yet..NONE of the great soccer countries do this.
That said. It is what it is and there is no other option for higher level play here unless you have a boy in a funded academy. It is soccer for well off players with very very few exceptions.
The US is different from the other "great soccer countries". Their methods do not work here, and vice versa. It is what it is, if you can afford it, go for it. If not, there are other avenues.
Despite all of this, this system is working, and is keeping the college and NWSL ranks flush with talent (talking girls side here). You can't say that soccer talent isn't being developed amidst all of this.
Anonymous
05/09/2021 13:58
Subject: Re:ECNL Team Fees
Anonymous wrote:The 6-10k number is for real. Here is a rough breakdown for a typical year (i.e. not a COVID year). Overnight stays are based on an average of $250/night stay to include hotel, gas, meals. You might spend more or less. Keep in mind that for teams that bus, as a parent, you pay for your kids bus ride, a shared hotel room, and meals. Then you have to get your own room and travel if you plan to go. You might be closer to $6k if you don't go yourself. Note that this does not include any personal training or national finals.
Club dues $2500
team fees $800 team fees (coach travel, referees, video service, incidentals)
uniforms and equipment $200
four league game weekend trips @ $500 ea, $2000 (there are 8 out of state teams in girls MA, each weekend you play two teams, requiring two overnight stays)
three showcase weekend trips @500 each, $1500
1 week trip to national playoffs/showcase, 7 nights@$250, $1750
total $8750
And yet honestly...all the silly travel does not help them improve their soccer. It is a very very wasteful system that is about running a biz and not really about finding and developing soccer talent. If this was the way to find and develop soccer talent, other places would do it and yet..NONE of the great soccer countries do this.
That said. It is what it is and there is no other option for higher level play here unless you have a boy in a funded academy. It is soccer for well off players with very very few exceptions.
Anonymous
05/09/2021 13:43
Subject: ECNL Team Fees
It is expensive and my recommendation for the families that are planning to take the risk is to avoid that club that is building a poorly reputation.
Anonymous
05/09/2021 12:32
Subject: Re:ECNL Team Fees
The 6-10k number is for real. Here is a rough breakdown for a typical year (i.e. not a COVID year). Overnight stays are based on an average of $250/night stay to include hotel, gas, meals. You might spend more or less. Keep in mind that for teams that bus, as a parent, you pay for your kids bus ride, a shared hotel room, and meals. Then you have to get your own room and travel if you plan to go. You might be closer to $6k if you don't go yourself. Note that this does not include any personal training or national finals.
Club dues $2500
team fees $800 team fees (coach travel, referees, video service, incidentals)
uniforms and equipment $200
four league game weekend trips @ $500 ea, $2000 (there are 8 out of state teams in girls MA, each weekend you play two teams, requiring two overnight stays)
three showcase weekend trips @500 each, $1500
1 week trip to national playoffs/showcase, 7 nights@$250, $1750
total $8750
Club dues $2500
team fees $800 team fees (coach travel, referees, video service, incidentals)
uniforms and equipment $200
four league game weekend trips @ $500 ea, $2000 (there are 8 out of state teams in girls MA, each weekend you play two teams, requiring two overnight stays)
three showcase weekend trips @500 each, $1500
1 week trip to national playoffs/showcase, 7 nights@$250, $1750
total $8750
Anonymous
05/09/2021 12:13
Subject: Re:ECNL Team Fees
Our team fee this year for ECNL was around $350--this covered things like coaches travel/lodging, tournament fees, and other team releated expenses. Because of COVID, most games were local or within 2-4 hours. We spent an extra $600 in total on hotel fees (total of 3 nights for further away games).
I suspect that when things open up, and we do the typical travel to a few states we might double (?) the hotel fees.
But I don't see it being anywhere near 6k ---until maybe the older age groups when they fly across the country for varous showcases etc. I think you can drive a lot of places vs fly and it becomes prety reasonable overall....
I suspect that when things open up, and we do the typical travel to a few states we might double (?) the hotel fees.
But I don't see it being anywhere near 6k ---until maybe the older age groups when they fly across the country for varous showcases etc. I think you can drive a lot of places vs fly and it becomes prety reasonable overall....