We dealt with secondary infertility and never were able to have a second. I know we are so lucky that I didn’t go into premature menopause until after I had one child, and it feels like we got the best and worst luck fertility wise. But I see you and know your heart. It’s not the same, but the pain of losing pregnancy after pregnancy and finally giving up on that dream was worse than losing my parents, full stop. I’m so sorry it didn’t work out for you and I wish you so much peace and light. You are strong and brave and a true survivor. It’s a grief you learn to live with, but never fully goes away. I understand that and I’m sorry for any hurt I inadvertently cause you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Completely different that you wanted them but it didn't work out.

I give like 10% thought to people who didn't have children but could have, but didn't want them. I think they have denied themselves having a full life, the full human experience.

However, again, different from you. You have recognized that there does exist a loss. I am sorry for your loss, btw. I think your loss will be apparent to others, on some level, spoken or not.

Similar to this, I find them a little self-centered in a way that anyone is when they don't have 100% responsibility for a young child. I don't hold that against them (I used to be that way). I am not saying that OP is self-centered since I don't even know her/him, that's just my experience with people I know.

Nothing is more self-centered and selfish than having a child. We wouldn’t have survived as a species without parenting having a huge payoff to the parents. I write this as a parent. It’s a totally selfish endeavor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I think they’re missing what is THE point of human existence, evolutionarily speaking, which is to reproduce. There were a lot of things about humankind , society, and the world in general that I didn’t fully grasp on an emotional level until I had my own kids. That being said, I didn’t know what I was missing in terms of that richness (both good and bad) before I had kids so I doubt that child free individuals feel that they’re missing anything from their lives. Which is good because feeling that way is no way to live.

I do think it’s ridiculous when child free people roll their eyes at anything related to children, call children “crotch goblins” and whatnot. Like, having kids is literally what nature wants us to do, and those kids are going to grow up to be your doctors and your world leaders. Making a stink because a child happens to exist at an outdoor brewery or an open house makes you sound immature, like you can’t fathom why anyone would have kids. Despite it being the sole driver for our species existence and therefore a very natural and normal phenomenon, without which you arguably can’t even experience the full point of life and humanity.

I also think it’s ridiculous when people with kids say they can’t understand why others wouldn’t have them. Hello- money, travel, career? There are plenty of reasons why people don’t want kids. And for people who want children but it never happened, I do feel very sad for them and hope that they find other ways to fulfill that desire.

Oh wow, as a parent I don't feel this at all. I never felt like I needed to reproduce

Um +1. PP has some bizarre tunnel vision.

Anonymous wrote:Completely different that you wanted them but it didn't work out.

I give like 10% thought to people who didn't have children but could have, but didn't want them. I think they have denied themselves having a full life, the full human experience.

However, again, different from you. You have recognized that there does exist a loss. I am sorry for your loss, btw. I think your loss will be apparent to others, on some level, spoken or not.

I couldn’t disagree more with the “full life” nonsense. Does two kids give you a fuller life than one? Does anything else go into having a full life experience like caring for elderly parents or having more than one husband/wife? College, travel, growing your own food? The human experience is so vast.

Anonymous wrote:I feel bad if I know they wanted children and were unable to do so. Otherwise, I assume they are rich and well rested.

Basically, this. If I know they wanted kids and couldn’t have them I feel bad and a little guilty I was lucky enough to be able to have a child. If I know they are purposely child free, i think it’s respectable and I hope they are satisfied with their choice. I do judge the child free that call children names like crotch goblins or calm themselves “dog mom” though.

Oops, cut off my sentence... *I never felt like I needed to reproduce on the basis of evolutionary human existence or a deep need to experience life to it's fullest. There are many things you've chosen not to do in life that others would think is THE "full point of life and humanity" (for example, proselytizing, suicide bombing in the name of the creator, sky diving, giving up worldly goods to serve mankind, etc).

As someone who battled infertility I feel for them. No one likes to admit but luck certainly plays a part in whether you become a parent. I was not lucky enough to be fertile but I was lucky enough not to run out of money before I succeeded.

In short - I would have compassion but I would also be interested I. Their lives - in what beauty swells within them.

I judge people on being jerks or non-jerks not if they have children or not. Or if they are married or not. I think less of jerks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Completely different that you wanted them but it didn't work out.

I give like 10% thought to people who didn't have children but could have, but didn't want them. I think they have denied themselves having a full life, the full human experience.

However, again, different from you. You have recognized that there does exist a loss. I am sorry for your loss, btw. I think your loss will be apparent to others, on some level, spoken or not.

Similar to this, I find them a little self-centered in a way that anyone is when they don't have 100% responsibility for a young child. I don't hold that against them (I used to be that way). I am not saying that OP is self-centered since I don't even know her/him, that's just my experience with people I know.

Yes, my first responder causing, or my doctor sibling who provides life-saving services for free are totally self-centered because they don't have children.

You are both idiots!

Anonymous wrote: I think they’re missing what is THE point of human existence, evolutionarily speaking, which is to reproduce. There were a lot of things about humankind , society, and the world in general that I didn’t fully grasp on an emotional level until I had my own kids. That being said, I didn’t know what I was missing in terms of that richness (both good and bad) before I had kids so I doubt that child free individuals feel that they’re missing anything from their lives. Which is good because feeling that way is no way to live.

I do think it’s ridiculous when child free people roll their eyes at anything related to children, call children “crotch goblins” and whatnot. Like, having kids is literally what nature wants us to do, and those kids are going to grow up to be your doctors and your world leaders. Making a stink because a child happens to exist at an outdoor brewery or an open house makes you sound immature, like you can’t fathom why anyone would have kids. Despite it being the sole driver for our species existence and therefore a very natural and normal phenomenon, without which you arguably can’t even experience the full point of life and humanity.

I also think it’s ridiculous when people with kids say they can’t understand why others wouldn’t have them. Hello- money, travel, career? There are plenty of reasons why people don’t want kids. And for people who want children but it never happened, I do feel very sad for them and hope that they find other ways to fulfill that desire.

Oh wow, as a parent I don't feel this at all. I never felt like I needed to reproduce

Anonymous wrote:I don't really think about it unless someone is talking to me about it.

+1.

I have several family members and close friends who don't have children. Some wanted to and couldn't. Others never wanted to. I see them as I see everyone else. I don't even think about it.

Anonymous wrote:Completely different that you wanted them but it didn't work out.

I give like 10% thought to people who didn't have children but could have, but didn't want them. I think they have denied themselves having a full life, the full human experience.

However, again, different from you. You have recognized that there does exist a loss. I am sorry for your loss, btw. I think your loss will be apparent to others, on some level, spoken or not.

Similar to this, I find them a little self-centered in a way that anyone is when they don't have 100% responsibility for a young child. I don't hold that against them (I used to be that way). I am not saying that OP is self-centered since I don't even know her/him, that's just my experience with people I know.

I have never assessed anyone through the prism of whether they have kids. That has nothing to do with their personality. I have friends with zero, one, two, and three kids. Some are situational friends and our relationship is based on our shared parenting experience, but my "real," longer term friends are the ones whose personalities mesh with mine.

I think they’re missing what is THE point of human existence, evolutionarily speaking, which is to reproduce. There were a lot of things about humankind , society, and the world in general that I didn’t fully grasp on an emotional level until I had my own kids. That being said, I didn’t know what I was missing in terms of that richness (both good and bad) before I had kids so I doubt that child free individuals feel that they’re missing anything from their lives. Which is good because feeling that way is no way to live.

I do think it’s ridiculous when child free people roll their eyes at anything related to children, call children “crotch goblins” and whatnot. Like, having kids is literally what nature wants us to do, and those kids are going to grow up to be your doctors and your world leaders. Making a stink because a child happens to exist at an outdoor brewery or an open house makes you sound immature, like you can’t fathom why anyone would have kids. Despite it being the sole driver for our species existence and therefore a very natural and normal phenomenon, without which you arguably can’t even experience the full point of life and humanity.

I also think it’s ridiculous when people with kids say they can’t understand why others wouldn’t have them. Hello- money, travel, career? There are plenty of reasons why people don’t want kids. And for people who want children but it never happened, I do feel very sad for them and hope that they find other ways to fulfill that desire.

I like that making weekend plans with my child free friends is easier than with friends with kids.