^ crack in the cartilage on the trochlear surface of the patellofemoral joint.

Anonymous wrote:Op updating:

Knee feels great except for bent knee deadweight where at one position I still have excruciating pain at one moment in flexion.

Have been avoiding those with the trainer and just doing other things. Squats and lunges are fine. Seems to have to do with the angle of the knee.

Not too discouraged but will probably do the mri to see if there’s a tear in there.

Have not completely grounded myself and given up

This was exactly my symptom, turned out to be a crack in the patellofemoral joint.
I tried to keep running which didn't get it to the point where it hurt, and my PT insisted I stop everything.
Over 4-6 months I did rehab. Got better.
Good luck!

Op updating:

Knee feels great except for bent knee deadweight where at one position I still have excruciating pain at one moment in flexion.

Have been avoiding those with the trainer and just doing other things. Squats and lunges are fine. Seems to have to do with the angle of the knee.

Not too discouraged but will probably do the mri to see if there’s a tear in there.

Have not completely grounded myself and given up

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP.
Does the pain always happen in the same joint position? Or are you saying that slow squats cause pain but fast squats with the same RoM do not?

Ok update after texting with my trainer. Sorry I had the wrong terms.

The my-knee-might-blow pain was doing “bent-knee deadlifts” and he said my alignment was perfect. (No lecture needed. I stopped immediately when it happened. Rested. Tried not more and it happened again so we didn’t do any more).

Squats, with the slight external rotation and more flexion at the ankle was fine.

And yes it’s an exact moment in the exercise. TMI but it also happens the split second before sitting on the toilet.

Doing a fast jump-squat type thing doesn’t aggravate this knee thing (but I don’t usually do those bc too risky for me).

Continuing our research: did a few grande plies in 1st and 2nd and no pain.

So external rotation seems to eliminate the pain some.

Appreciate everyone’s advice.

Better now?

Anonymous wrote:I had patellar tendinitis last year and it came and went for a while and then came and stayed. It happens if your leg muscles are tight and put too much strain on the patroller tendons. Really good stretching, icing, and resting it resolved the issue, but it took time.

What do you mean by “really good stretching?”

Update/thoughts, OP?

I am 54 and I had ACL on my knee about 30 years ago. I had aches and pains here and there but no major problems. Back in February I went skiing. I hadn’t skied in about 20 years. Shortly after my knee became swollen and very stiff. I had it checked out and apparently I have no cartilage (around my knee )left. Apparently this happens to about 15% of ACL patients overtime. I am scheduled do you have knee replacement surgery in July.

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Just read through all of this (and posted above). Ugh. Aging! I was once upon a time a ballet dancer so I do have quite a collection of injuries. And yes, EDS-hyper mobile.

Super helpful. Somehow in 44 years my knees have been the one joint that didn’t trouble me. Ah well. I’ll ice and read more about the knee.

Ballet dancer? Many past gymnasts and skaters have joint problems at a young age, and I imagine it's the same for dancers.

I was a swimmer and many of my old swimming friends have shoulders that are falling apart.

There are lots of low impact exercise programs available on youtube.

I have personally had patellar tendonitis and have played sports with teammates with quadriceps tendonitis, and they do not have such a specific joint configuration that causes pain as OP reported.

I am 42 and have a similar problem. I consulted with a specialist, and the diagnosis most probably is quadriceps tendonitis https://www.healthline.com/health/quadriceps-tendonitis

From what I've read, our knees really need to rest from knee-dominant exercises for several weeks, and that's what I am doing now. After that, I will try to slowly resume the exercises.

I also accidentally found this guy who has a program for knees, sounds pretty good to me but haven't tried it: https://instagram.com/kneesovertoesguy?igshid=1ezclsmeiahgn

Re: rehab via leg exercises ("lightweight squats for years"), a bit more detail:

You have an exercise that causes pain. (Again this is ONLY if it's confirmed to be articular cartilage localized damage or cracking.)
Month 0: Do the bent-leg deadlifts, but without weight. Does it still hurt? If so, do them next to a table, grab onto the table, and reduce your body weight. But go through the full ROM of the exercise with as little weight as you need until there is very little pain.
Month 1: same thing. Do this daily. Probably still needing to unload with a table
Month 2: same thing. You'll be starting to slightly go up in weight.
Month 3-6: repeat daily. do 3 sets of 20 reps. you'll be doing probably just body weight squats. Use the leg extension machine from time to time too. Low enough weight that there is no pain.
Month 7-: you'll be able to add some weight. Over next 6-12 months, work up in weight until you're doing real squats and real deadlifts.

-not-an-ortho

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP.
Does the pain always happen in the same joint position? Or are you saying that slow squats cause pain but fast squats with the same RoM do not?

Ok update after texting with my trainer. Sorry I had the wrong terms.

The my-knee-might-blow pain was doing “bent-knee deadlifts” and he said my alignment was perfect. (No lecture needed. I stopped immediately when it happened. Rested. Tried not more and it happened again so we didn’t do any more).

Squats, with the slight external rotation and more flexion at the ankle was fine.

And yes it’s an exact moment in the exercise. TMI but it also happens the split second before sitting on the toilet.

Doing a fast jump-squat type thing doesn’t aggravate this knee thing (but I don’t usually do those bc too risky for me).

Continuing our research: did a few grande plies in 1st and 2nd and no pain.

So external rotation seems to eliminate the pain some.

Appreciate everyone’s advice.

Hi, not an ortho but have had some knees and rehabbed them.

Hard to be sure without a doc looking at it. But it COULD be damage to the articular cartilage in the patellofemoral joint. (Articular cartilage: the "slippery" thin tissue that coats your knee joint bones and allows them to slip back and forth without pain when you bend your knee.)

If you had damage to a single spot, when you bend your knee exactly the right way, you'll be putting pressure on the damaged spot and that will cause pain.

An MRI will diagnose this.

If it IS this, (I'm the PP who wrote about knee rehab) I strongly recommend you try physical therapy. Do some work on flexibility, see a good PT who can advise you about strengthening muscles around the knee, and then do the lightweight squats for years until it gets better. It CAN improve even though some docs will say you can't regrow damaged cartilage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP.
Does the pain always happen in the same joint position? Or are you saying that slow squats cause pain but fast squats with the same RoM do not?

Ok update after texting with my trainer. Sorry I had the wrong terms.

The my-knee-might-blow pain was doing “bent-knee deadlifts” and he said my alignment was perfect. (No lecture needed. I stopped immediately when it happened. Rested. Tried not more and it happened again so we didn’t do any more).

Squats, with the slight external rotation and more flexion at the ankle was fine.

And yes it’s an exact moment in the exercise. TMI but it also happens the split second before sitting on the toilet.

Doing a fast jump-squat type thing doesn’t aggravate this knee thing (but I don’t usually do those bc too risky for me).

Continuing our research: did a few grande plies in 1st and 2nd and no pain.

So external rotation seems to eliminate the pain some.

Appreciate everyone’s advice.

NBC Pp here. Based on the above comment about external rotation feeling better, could it be that the muscles around your knee are uneven and pulling in different directions?

Another dancer here (National Ballet School/NBC Canada, I quit at 19). I think all the floor work / floor heavy choreographies did my knees in.

I have spectacular crepitus (crackling and popping) in my knees and occasional mild stabbing pain when running in my right knee, but it goes away as I get warmed up. I also have plantar fasciitis in my right foot (very high arches+a couple of pregnancies is apparently the classic recipe for PF) which occasionally radiates to my hip. I should be going to PT but with COVID, I haven’t.

I don’t normally believe in supplements but decided to try Osteo Bi-Flex because I’ve heard some older people sing it’s praises. I don’t know if it’s the placebo effect but I do think it helps a bit.

OP, did your doctor say what the MRI could possibly show?