Anonymous
04/05/2021 19:19
Subject: Re:What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
Anonymous wrote:Again. People move here and/or convert knowing that the society is not constructed around their minority faith.
I keep seeing this argument on these calendar threads. Maybe it's you every time? Either way, it's a little bizarre and seems to imply that all minority faith families are foreigners who moved here from somewhere else? I'm not sure that's what you meant to imply; at least I certainly hope not. Many minority faith houses of worship have been in Fairfax for generations, and their members are not all new to the area. Regardless, the county has changed. I suppose by your logic, if recognizing this growing diversity bothers you, you could choose to move somewhere where they don't, but there's no guarantee that place won't change too.
Anonymous
04/05/2021 19:09
Subject: What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I'll add that I think those who say "just send your kid to a private religious school" fundamentally misunderstand two things:
1. Many religious people actively want their kids in public schools, where they can get a great education and be part of our diverse community. Diversity is a strength and should be prized. Being religious shouldn't have to mean that public school isn't a viable option for my family. There is obviously going to be some give and take that wouldn't exist at a private religious institution, but Calendars A and B acknowledged that by only asking for four days off and not, for example, the first day of Passover. The Task Force recognized that religious families would still have to make choices about holiday observance and public school; they just wanted to make it a little easier.
2. Private schools are expensive. I'm not advocating for a voucher system, because I don't think that public money should go to religious education and I believe in the value of public school. But for many, private school is just not in the budget. What that means for religious education is a separate discussion and religious families who WANT religious private school education have those conversations with their families, their communities, and their private school admission counselors all the time.
In short (I know, too late), I think we were asking the School Board to take a STEP in the right direction, not SOLVE equity. And seven of them refused.
If you want religious holidays, attend a religious school.
Otherwise, deal with it.
So, I guess you didn't read my whole post. I know it was long. But again, public school should not only be available to non-religious families. Religious families were not asking for every holiday, just four of our holiest days. I think that recognizing the diversity of our community in the school calendar with just four days would have been an important reflection of the value we as a county and as a country place on diversity.
Public school is available to religious families. I'd like my kids to have a brief holiday off in Disneyworld's "off-season," but I would never expect FCPS to cater to my whim. So, my kids are in school during disney off season and yours are in school during some random religious observances. That's just how the cookie crumbles
Anonymous
04/05/2021 19:00
Subject: What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I'll add that I think those who say "just send your kid to a private religious school" fundamentally misunderstand two things:
1. Many religious people actively want their kids in public schools, where they can get a great education and be part of our diverse community. Diversity is a strength and should be prized. Being religious shouldn't have to mean that public school isn't a viable option for my family. There is obviously going to be some give and take that wouldn't exist at a private religious institution, but Calendars A and B acknowledged that by only asking for four days off and not, for example, the first day of Passover. The Task Force recognized that religious families would still have to make choices about holiday observance and public school; they just wanted to make it a little easier.
2. Private schools are expensive. I'm not advocating for a voucher system, because I don't think that public money should go to religious education and I believe in the value of public school. But for many, private school is just not in the budget. What that means for religious education is a separate discussion and religious families who WANT religious private school education have those conversations with their families, their communities, and their private school admission counselors all the time.
In short (I know, too late), I think we were asking the School Board to take a STEP in the right direction, not SOLVE equity. And seven of them refused.
If you want religious holidays, attend a religious school.
Otherwise, deal with it.
So, I guess you didn't read my whole post. I know it was long. But again, public school should not only be available to non-religious families. Religious families were not asking for every holiday, just four of our holiest days. I think that recognizing the diversity of our community in the school calendar with just four days would have been an important reflection of the value we as a county and as a country place on diversity.
Anonymous
04/05/2021 15:07
Subject: Re:What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
Again. People move here and/or convert knowing that the society is not constructed around their minority faith.
They already counted the costs and decided it was worth it.
Population densities change and sometimes it gets a little easier (enough people for a decent-sized house of worship and weekend religious schools, etc.)
But it wasn't a dealbreaker.
You shop carefully in the grocery store to avoid forbidden foods or products that have them, buy fabric to modify store-bought clothing if you need to, patronize your special grocery stores/religious shops when they open. And you take the day off for your holidays and make up tests later.
People have been doing this for decades. America is very accomodating which is exactly why minority faiths have increased to the point where we get to have enough population for businesses catering to our needs and desires. In some areas, there are so many that the public schools change calendars as a matter of operational necessity. If you can't wait for that to happen for your children in 5 or 10 years or for your grandchildren, go to a religious school or homeschool.
They already counted the costs and decided it was worth it.
Population densities change and sometimes it gets a little easier (enough people for a decent-sized house of worship and weekend religious schools, etc.)
But it wasn't a dealbreaker.
You shop carefully in the grocery store to avoid forbidden foods or products that have them, buy fabric to modify store-bought clothing if you need to, patronize your special grocery stores/religious shops when they open. And you take the day off for your holidays and make up tests later.
People have been doing this for decades. America is very accomodating which is exactly why minority faiths have increased to the point where we get to have enough population for businesses catering to our needs and desires. In some areas, there are so many that the public schools change calendars as a matter of operational necessity. If you can't wait for that to happen for your children in 5 or 10 years or for your grandchildren, go to a religious school or homeschool.
Anonymous
04/05/2021 14:17
Subject: What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
Anonymous wrote:The proposed solution was the four holidays (Eid, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and Diwali) included in Calendars A and B. Instead, seven School Board members decided to ignore the recommendations of their own Task Force, which is just a slap in the face. The calendars were not perfect solutions to equity, but they would have been a start, and they were put together by a Task Force that included stakeholders from multiple different faiths (including Christianity), and weighed minority faith worship, school needs, and a whole host of other factors.
Equity is fairness, not sameness. It is unfair that children from minority faith households are put at a disadvantage from their secular peers. They either miss school to observe religious holidays, or miss important religious holidays in order to not miss school. I don't think there is a "solution" that will be fully equitable, because as multiple people have pointed out, there is a slippery slope problem in giving some groups their holidays off, but not others. However, I think the slippery slope argument that ended in Calendar D is lazy and shirks responsibility to even TRY.
I'll add that I think those who say "just send your kid to a private religious school" fundamentally misunderstand two things:
1. Many religious people actively want their kids in public schools, where they can get a great education and be part of our diverse community. Diversity is a strength and should be prized. Being religious shouldn't have to mean that public school isn't a viable option for my family. There is obviously going to be some give and take that wouldn't exist at a private religious institution, but Calendars A and B acknowledged that by only asking for four days off and not, for example, the first day of Passover. The Task Force recognized that religious families would still have to make choices about holiday observance and public school; they just wanted to make it a little easier.
2. Private schools are expensive. I'm not advocating for a voucher system, because I don't think that public money should go to religious education and I believe in the value of public school. But for many, private school is just not in the budget. What that means for religious education is a separate discussion and religious families who WANT religious private school education have those conversations with their families, their communities, and their private school admission counselors all the time.
In short (I know, too late), I think we were asking the School Board to take a STEP in the right direction, not SOLVE equity. And seven of them refused.
If you want religious holidays, attend a religious school.
Otherwise, deal with it.
Anonymous
04/05/2021 13:47
Subject: What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
The proposed solution was the four holidays (Eid, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and Diwali) included in Calendars A and B. Instead, seven School Board members decided to ignore the recommendations of their own Task Force, which is just a slap in the face. The calendars were not perfect solutions to equity, but they would have been a start, and they were put together by a Task Force that included stakeholders from multiple different faiths (including Christianity), and weighed minority faith worship, school needs, and a whole host of other factors.
Equity is fairness, not sameness. It is unfair that children from minority faith households are put at a disadvantage from their secular peers. They either miss school to observe religious holidays, or miss important religious holidays in order to not miss school. I don't think there is a "solution" that will be fully equitable, because as multiple people have pointed out, there is a slippery slope problem in giving some groups their holidays off, but not others. However, I think the slippery slope argument that ended in Calendar D is lazy and shirks responsibility to even TRY.
I'll add that I think those who say "just send your kid to a private religious school" fundamentally misunderstand two things:
1. Many religious people actively want their kids in public schools, where they can get a great education and be part of our diverse community. Diversity is a strength and should be prized. Being religious shouldn't have to mean that public school isn't a viable option for my family. There is obviously going to be some give and take that wouldn't exist at a private religious institution, but Calendars A and B acknowledged that by only asking for four days off and not, for example, the first day of Passover. The Task Force recognized that religious families would still have to make choices about holiday observance and public school; they just wanted to make it a little easier.
2. Private schools are expensive. I'm not advocating for a voucher system, because I don't think that public money should go to religious education and I believe in the value of public school. But for many, private school is just not in the budget. What that means for religious education is a separate discussion and religious families who WANT religious private school education have those conversations with their families, their communities, and their private school admission counselors all the time.
In short (I know, too late), I think we were asking the School Board to take a STEP in the right direction, not SOLVE equity. And seven of them refused.
Equity is fairness, not sameness. It is unfair that children from minority faith households are put at a disadvantage from their secular peers. They either miss school to observe religious holidays, or miss important religious holidays in order to not miss school. I don't think there is a "solution" that will be fully equitable, because as multiple people have pointed out, there is a slippery slope problem in giving some groups their holidays off, but not others. However, I think the slippery slope argument that ended in Calendar D is lazy and shirks responsibility to even TRY.
I'll add that I think those who say "just send your kid to a private religious school" fundamentally misunderstand two things:
1. Many religious people actively want their kids in public schools, where they can get a great education and be part of our diverse community. Diversity is a strength and should be prized. Being religious shouldn't have to mean that public school isn't a viable option for my family. There is obviously going to be some give and take that wouldn't exist at a private religious institution, but Calendars A and B acknowledged that by only asking for four days off and not, for example, the first day of Passover. The Task Force recognized that religious families would still have to make choices about holiday observance and public school; they just wanted to make it a little easier.
2. Private schools are expensive. I'm not advocating for a voucher system, because I don't think that public money should go to religious education and I believe in the value of public school. But for many, private school is just not in the budget. What that means for religious education is a separate discussion and religious families who WANT religious private school education have those conversations with their families, their communities, and their private school admission counselors all the time.
In short (I know, too late), I think we were asking the School Board to take a STEP in the right direction, not SOLVE equity. And seven of them refused.
Anonymous
03/25/2021 13:33
Subject: What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No religious holidays. Make it an excused absence for anyone who chooses to celebrate (and allow students the standard week to make up assignments/tests/etc without penalty).
Staff should be allowed to use leave that cannot be denied, but I don't think any special religious rules should be in place about extra leave or whatever. We get 5 personal days. FIVE. In addition to sick leave. If you can't spare one of your five personal days for your religious holiday, then IMO it's really not a priority for you to take it off.
Teacher here. I disagree. Many teachers have been banking leave for eventual maternity leave which is atrocious. Also, personal leave can be denied. Religious Leave cannot.
I'm a teacher too, and I also banked my leave for maternity leaves. We get 12 sick days and 5 personal days a year. That's over 3 weeks of leave! If it is more important for you to save it to get more time off years down the road vs. to use 1 day to celebrate your holiday of choice, that's fine, but then the religious holiday wasn't really that important.
The only change I want to see is it not being able to be denied. PUBLIC school should not be giving extra leave for RELIGIOUS reasons.
Anonymous
03/25/2021 13:33
Subject: What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No religious holidays. Make it an excused absence for anyone who chooses to celebrate (and allow students the standard week to make up assignments/tests/etc without penalty).
Staff should be allowed to use leave that cannot be denied, but I don't think any special religious rules should be in place about extra leave or whatever. We get 5 personal days. FIVE. In addition to sick leave. If you can't spare one of your five personal days for your religious holiday, then IMO it's really not a priority for you to take it off.
Teacher here. I disagree. Many teachers have been banking leave for eventual maternity leave which is atrocious. Also, personal leave can be denied. Religious Leave cannot.
Another teacher here. We used to only get 3 personal days a year. Now we get 5. We earn a lot of sick leave each year as well. I have never had personal leave denied - I don't even ask. If that's an issue, make a floating holiday like many companies do where teachers can have one day a year to take off for religious services.
Ok, like I said earlier. Many female teachers bank their leave for maternity leave. We get 11 days a year if that is not used. For maternity leave, you need more unless you take LWOP. Some people cannot afford to do that. If we actually had good maternity leave in this country, taking a personal day for a holiday is no big deal.
Yes, I know. I have had two children while teaching with FCPS and I was able to save enough maternity leave to be paid both times.
My main issue is that people keep talking about these holidays like every other place gets them off, and FCPS is the only place that doesn't. In other workplaces people need to save for maternity leave as well as take personal leave for religious holidays. Why does everyone expect FCPS should be different? I feel like the county is actually pretty generous with it's days off overall.
Anonymous
03/25/2021 13:25
Subject: What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No religious holidays. Make it an excused absence for anyone who chooses to celebrate (and allow students the standard week to make up assignments/tests/etc without penalty).
Staff should be allowed to use leave that cannot be denied, but I don't think any special religious rules should be in place about extra leave or whatever. We get 5 personal days. FIVE. In addition to sick leave. If you can't spare one of your five personal days for your religious holiday, then IMO it's really not a priority for you to take it off.
Teacher here. I disagree. Many teachers have been banking leave for eventual maternity leave which is atrocious. Also, personal leave can be denied. Religious Leave cannot.
Another teacher here. We used to only get 3 personal days a year. Now we get 5. We earn a lot of sick leave each year as well. I have never had personal leave denied - I don't even ask. If that's an issue, make a floating holiday like many companies do where teachers can have one day a year to take off for religious services.
Ok, like I said earlier. Many female teachers bank their leave for maternity leave. We get 11 days a year if that is not used. For maternity leave, you need more unless you take LWOP. Some people cannot afford to do that. If we actually had good maternity leave in this country, taking a personal day for a holiday is no big deal.
Anonymous
03/25/2021 13:08
Subject: Re:What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
Anonymous wrote:It makes more sense to have Winter Break in January.
Snow days are often used in January. There are multiple federal days off too. Right now we have 2 weeks off in December, then the return to school is riddled with snow days, days off for the quarter, and federal holidays. It’s a bad start.
Christmas Day should be off as a federal holiday but not the week before and the week after. End the year strong and start the new year with holiday.
Well, we like it where it is. And, ftr, they don't always get the week before Christmas off. I think they went to school until the 22d or 23d this year.
Anonymous
03/25/2021 13:03
Subject: What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Education funds should follow the kids (vouchers), so that you could more easily afford to send your kids to a parochial or private school that met your scheduling needs, or get the ultimate in schedule flexibility, and homeschool.
Nope. Don't want my money going to religious schools.
+1 and especially when they are not required to meet the same state standards as public schools. I'm not funding creationism or fundamentalist homeschooling. Pay for your religious practice on your own dime. You know when your important holidays are and can plan in advance and get an excused absence for religious observance.
Our kid went to a secular private school for a few years (that we paid for entirely out of our own pocket), and they had most Jewish high holidays off for exactly the reason someone motioned upthread - it was a significant enough portion of the population to guarantee low enrollment for the day.
Anonymous
03/25/2021 12:32
Subject: Re:What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
It makes more sense to have Winter Break in January.
Snow days are often used in January. There are multiple federal days off too. Right now we have 2 weeks off in December, then the return to school is riddled with snow days, days off for the quarter, and federal holidays. It’s a bad start.
Christmas Day should be off as a federal holiday but not the week before and the week after. End the year strong and start the new year with holiday.
Snow days are often used in January. There are multiple federal days off too. Right now we have 2 weeks off in December, then the return to school is riddled with snow days, days off for the quarter, and federal holidays. It’s a bad start.
Christmas Day should be off as a federal holiday but not the week before and the week after. End the year strong and start the new year with holiday.
Anonymous
03/25/2021 12:32
Subject: What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No religious holidays. Make it an excused absence for anyone who chooses to celebrate (and allow students the standard week to make up assignments/tests/etc without penalty).
Staff should be allowed to use leave that cannot be denied, but I don't think any special religious rules should be in place about extra leave or whatever. We get 5 personal days. FIVE. In addition to sick leave. If you can't spare one of your five personal days for your religious holiday, then IMO it's really not a priority for you to take it off.
Teacher here. I disagree. Many teachers have been banking leave for eventual maternity leave which is atrocious. Also, personal leave can be denied. Religious Leave cannot.
Another teacher here. We used to only get 3 personal days a year. Now we get 5. We earn a lot of sick leave each year as well. I have never had personal leave denied - I don't even ask. If that's an issue, make a floating holiday like many companies do where teachers can have one day a year to take off for religious services.
Anonymous
03/25/2021 11:44
Subject: What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
Anonymous wrote:No days off for anything. No christmas (haha winter break). Spring break and Easter link removed (which they have done). We just go to school for everyone's holidays. Only federal holidays and teacher work days are days off. Give no one want they want make everyone mad.
Christmas is a Federal holiday. Everyone needs a break. Maybe go year round. Classes go for six weeks on and then two or three weeks off ( or come up with something else) Close for August and January due to the poor weather and possible snow days.
Anonymous
03/25/2021 11:38
Subject: What does "equity" look like for the calendar?
Anonymous wrote:Education funds should follow the kids (vouchers), so that you could more easily afford to send your kids to a parochial or private school that met your scheduling needs, or get the ultimate in schedule flexibility, and homeschool.
Nope. Don't want my money going to religious schools.