Oh, and I forgot...size and ethnicity have zero to do with soccer. Even as a defender.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djalma_Santos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp_Lahm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Baresi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dani_Alves
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Carlos

OP here, thanks for the advice, it is all good and useful. I just wanted to clarify, though, I'm not saying that our ethnicity directly makes him less of a defender! It just likely affects his projected height, relative to most white Americans. If height doesn't matter, ethnicity has no effect.

Finally a "this isn't Europe" response.

Just my .02

1. Club soccer in VA is a mirror of the parents, their expectations, and their competitiveness.
2. Because of #1 the bells and whistles of a club sometimes outweigh the substance.
3. Again because of #1, the expectations and limits of how hard coaches and clubs push is below other states and other areas. I know of teams, ECNL teams where the coach was replaces because he or she was too "mean".
4. 1+2+3 = generally poor or uncaring coaches.
5. This area is affluent.
6. Affluent parents don't care if they waste $4500, many look at club soccer as others stated, a nice daycare where my kid can run around and get cool stuff.
7. Clubs are in it for the money, getting kids scholarships makes parents think theirs will get one and be willing to pay without asking questions. I bet the average parent spend more time asking questions about a $40 bottle of wine around here than asking questions about their coach and club.
8. Coaches are in it for the money, yea I know they don't get paid much but when a coach is checking their emails on the sideline it's pretty obvious.
9. Typically if your kid is driven they will need additional coaching. Remember the club coach gets paid per player so there is an incentive to pad the roster spots. Most will coach to the least common denominator.

Enough of a rant...

Given the issue with your Son I would keep in mind that at the U12 level the number one thing you and your son should be worrying about is ball skills. If he can't control the ball he will never be good. Too many players on too many teams around here can't control a ball, cant pass correctly, can't dribble with their eyes up. By the time they're older the coach is trying to teach tactics meanwhile Johnny is turning the ball over every 2 out of 3 touches.

Find him a good technical coach. Check their license, contrary to popular belief holding a high license is not easy and in some ways harder through US Soccer than other countries. However a B or A license doesn't equate to a good coach by itself. Speak with parents.

The other posts stating defenders don't have to be as skilled as other positions are simply wrong. A forward makes a mistake and it's a turnover, a defender makes a mistake, hits a poor ball, can't use both feet and suddenly the ball is in the box heading on net. Top coaches always build their teams from the back for a reason. I won't even get into the fact that most defenders are also utilized on the offensive side of the ball as well. And besides the CAM and the GK they're probably the smartest on the field.

If the coach rotates positions don't worry, live and learn. Worry about it in 2-3 years. Many college players switch positions when the get on campus, different coaches see different things. Being able to adapt is crucial. IIRC Hope Solo didn't play GK until she went to UW, she was a striker.

Find him a good coach and follow the coach, club doesn't matter.

Know HIS expectations from soccer. Don't impart your beliefs or goals. Support him don't think for him. My DD actually likes demanding, yelling, coaches on the other hand Mom doesn't see things the same way. Know what he wants.

At 11 or 12 there should be a good mix of discussions, some the coach should have with parent and child some with just the child. As above, many times the kids won't say what they are really thinking because mom or dad is hovering around.

Don't settle, each year passes is another year gone. Know how you want to proceed with his soccer and stick too it.

Ultimately there are about 5 or 6 decent coaches in each age group. Search them out.

Oh, and I forgot...size and ethnicity have zero to do with soccer. Even as a defender.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djalma_Santos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp_Lahm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Baresi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dani_Alves
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Carlos

Thanks, yes, the team is doing badly, unfortunately. We'll talk to the coach and find out his reasoning. Part of the reason that I am personally not thrilled about this, in addition to my son not loving the position, is that he's tiny and so I am not sure what his future will be as a defender. He's not likely to have a big growth spurt, as we are non-Caucasian, and short relative to most men in the U.S.


Then you have to accept the fact that no matter how technical he becomes eventually the lack of size will "most likely" be the deciding factor that he has no control over.

NP here. Do you mean generally, or that he can't be a defender? Because on Alexandria's semi-pro soccer and futsal teams, there are a fair number of shorter guys (mostly non-white), just not defenders.

These coaches don't know what they’re doing. They are not professional coaches in Europe as much as they would like to be. These are not professional clubs. They do not have the training, experience, or backing to eyeball anything. Most want to believe they have that skill, but they don’t. You can’t tell anything at the younger ages. If the best and highest paid in the sport can’t tell, what makes you think some random person here can? Or their parent!

If you do any cursory research on player development practices, you will see it is just not here for the most part. Some clubs really try, but you can tell. The training required for coaching in other counties is just too much work for most US coaches. They wouldn’t be allowed to step foot near any of their players, even at U9 non-academy.

Here’s a hint - emotional and psychological wellbeing is part of player development.

A player should not be forced to do a JOB they hate without knowing the plan. Even for everyone else’s benefit. While you are paying for it. That's insane! The player’s opinions matter for THEIR game. They are not PROs and will not get the training/knowledge here to become one anyway.

If you were at one of those player development clubs, this would be a non-issue. Unfortunately, we are in the US; coaching is woefully inadequate and the system is pay-to-play. Most of these clubs are rent-a-shirt factories with “good coaches” abound. A young player should not FEAR their coach! That’s a flag!

This is a recreational activity on steroids, that’s it.

Now, if the coach actually has a plan of some sort, and the players are being rotated, that would the best you can get around here outside of a player development club. If the rotation is planned and adhered to as part of the session/season (not 5+ minutes here or there randomly), and the coach gives detailed instruction and time to grow. You are in an Ok place. Again, trained coaches know positive communication at younger ages is vital in player development. Especially during the game. The coach’s integrity, honesty, and planning are crucial.

You can tell a player development club by watching a few different age groups and the levels within an age group. If the teams, for the most part, up or down, look to be trying to do the same things, they are a development club. If they rotate at the younger ages, they are hedging their bets and operating with a bit of humility. They are putting in effort as best they can and it is most likely expensive. Never perfect.

If a rotation is happening now with no plan, the coach has poor communication skills, and the kid hates it……

There are choices:
1. Find a club where your kid enjoys playing and plays a position they like. Up or down a level doesn’t matter. They are not going pro. Let them have fun. You are paying for this, don’t pay for misery.
2. Get private training in the area the kid wants to play. Improve confidence. Hopefully, down the line, change the coach's mind (less likely).
3. Get nose deep in the genitals of the coach. They don’t know what they’re doing anyway if you find yourself in this situation.
4. Stick it out, let your kid’s ambitions die (inevitable) or not (passion). Find other interests and become more well-rounded. Use this as a teaching moment for resiliency. Don’t let the coach go overboard.


I don’t think you should talk to the coach directly about it; egos generally too large for reason. The best answer you may get is to "help the team." These coaches don’t have the time, training, or concern for development. Don’t talk to other parents on the team. You can see from posts on this forum how much they actually care about player development. Most of these parents don’t care about their own kid’s development but are willing to dish out tens of thousands on it. They really want score line results and bragging rights. They are in make-believe land watching little PROs play. Check this forum (change my mind). Who can blame them? You get the kits and the badges and the merch and the car magnets. Oh, they love the magnets.

Remember, they are NOT professional players, they are KIDS!

Anonymous wrote:

OP, you mentioned that the team is not doing well. Hence, the coach is probably moving your DC to a position of need for the best chance for the team to win/be more competitive.

In any case, it’s definitely worth it for you to have a conversation with the coach to find out why. My DD plays mostly at either CM or CF but the coach moved her to for a few games where he needed someone to get the ball out of the back since some teams’ forward were so dominant and her team had difficulty generating an attack.

Thanks, yes, the team is doing badly, unfortunately. We'll talk to the coach and find out his reasoning. Part of the reason that I am personally not thrilled about this, in addition to my son not loving the position, is that he's tiny and so I am not sure what his future will be as a defender. He's not likely to have a big growth spurt, as we are non-Caucasian, and short relative to most men in the U.S.

Then you have to accept the fact that no matter how technical he becomes eventually the lack of size will "most likely" be the deciding factor that he has no control over.

OP, you mentioned that the team is not doing well. Hence, the coach is probably moving your DC to a position of need for the best chance for the team to win/be more competitive.

In any case, it’s definitely worth it for you to have a conversation with the coach to find out why. My DD plays mostly at either CM or CF but the coach moved her to for a few games where he needed someone to get the ball out of the back since some teams’ forward were so dominant and her team had difficulty generating an attack.

Thanks, yes, the team is doing badly, unfortunately. We'll talk to the coach and find out his reasoning. Part of the reason that I am personally not thrilled about this, in addition to my son not loving the position, is that he's tiny and so I am not sure what his future will be as a defender. He's not likely to have a big growth spurt, as we are non-Caucasian, and short relative to most men in the U.S.

I wouldn't view this position change as an indication that your son did anything 'wrong' as a midfielder. As PP said, it likely is the case that the coach realized the team needed a stronger defense and thinks your son can provide that.

I also think that your son (and you) should ask for a few minutes to discuss this with the coach and your son should let the coach know that he would still like the opportunity to play midfield sometimes. I will say that it is still early in the season, and your son may find that as he gets used to playing defense, he really likes it. So, I would encourage him to give it a chance.

More globally, it is concerning that your son doesn't feel like he can talk to his coach and that he is afraid of him. While you believe the coach is a good guy "at his core", your son doesn't feel comfortable. I'd be looking for a better situation for my child.

OP, you mentioned that the team is not doing well. Hence, the coach is probably moving your DC to a position of need for the best chance for the team to win/be more competitive.

In any case, it’s definitely worth it for you to have a conversation with the coach to find out why. My DD plays mostly at either CM or CF but the coach moved her to for a few games where he needed someone to get the ball out of the back since some teams’ forward were so dominant and her team had difficulty generating an attack.

Anonymous wrote:At U12 he should still be rotated. Our coaches specifically told us they are looking for kids that are versatile. Even so, I would have your son talk to him, but careful that its in a positive/improvement way, as opposed to a complaining way (you said nothing to indicate he would, but might be good to model some language with him).

I agree that he should still be rotated at this age, but that doesn't necessarily mean she should be rotated every game. In order to really learn a position, you need to spend some dedicated time training and playing in it. If a player is constantly bouncing in and out of position day to day, they aren't really going to learn it well enough to play it proficiently.

But it still would be good for the coach to communicate with his players about what he's doing so they understand what's happening.

I keep reading comments from people talking about how players should be rotating around the field in different positions up through U-whatever. I don't think that's true for all players. These kids are not carbon copies of one another, and even as boys it's obvious that some kids excel in certain positions.

My oldest son is a natural defender. No, that's not code for "he's no good" -- he just was never very creative with the ball and did not like the "pressure" of trying to score. It's partly based on his technical ability and partly based on his personality. But he loves being a "destructive" player and breaking up the opposing team's attack; he enjoys it. He's physically big and strong for his age, and he takes the lead in commanding the defense. He has a defensive mindset and a good eye for quickly surveying an attack and making moves to counter it. He's been pretty much exclusively playing as a defender since age 11, and he's "that kid" his team always is thankful is playing defense.

By contrast, my younger boy is a natural striker. He wants the ball. He wants to score. He's a creative player and has much better technical skills at his age than my oldest son did. He's also smaller than average, and while he is "okay" playing defense, he doesn't enjoy it. He's been the top goal scorer on his team every year since he was 5.

I'm sure that there are other player types where they are more versatile than the two examples above -- players who could be midfielders, strikers, or defenders. Maybe most boys fall into that type. But clearly not all of them do.

Every boys' sport has some degree of positional specialization, even for U-littles. In baseball, even at a young age there will be a subset of kids who pitch; a subset of kids who play the bases (or shortstop) well; and a subset of kids who play outfield. In football, at 10 years old you're going to have a subset of quarterbacks; a different subset of wide-receivers; a different subset of linemen. Basketball, same thing -- certain players will be your forwards/center, while other players will be your guards. A first baseman might be equally good at playing second or third, but would not make a good pitcher; an offensive tackle might also make a great linebacker but would not be a good receiver or quarterback; etc.

Why should we expect soccer to be any different?

I've actually been frustrated at the mechanical rotation of players around different positions on the field, especially during the same game, when it's clear that some of the player/position combinations are strong and some are weak. And it doesn't seem like the competition takes the same approach -- especially in tournaments.

Anonymous wrote:

What is the position in question? I'll say as kids get older they should still be rotating positions to a certain degree to aid in development, however, certain kids will be somewhat limited to certain positions over time. For example, if your son played and liked striker, but there are now 3-4 kids that are bigger, stronger, faster, better finishers, the coach will be inclined to rotate those 3-4 kid through that position vs all players on the team.

Thanks. He was a midfielder and is now a defender. He used to be a defender more often when he was younger, and did get compliments on it from coaches and parents on other teams, but it isn't the position he wants to play.

And hey, I am totally open to the idea that he messed up or is somehow lacking - I don't pretend to be the end all and super objective on my own kid's playing. But, if that is the case, the coach should have talked to him about it. His mid-year player eval was overall positive. If it an issue or problem with him, and that's fine, but he needs to know so that he can work at it.

You're welcome. Most coaches do not have the time to have that discussion with every parent with every decision they make in a given year on what I am assuming are a couple teams they coach. You pay them to coach and they will just go on their way coaching unless you say something. You may be thinking about this wrong too. Maybe he sees a lot in your son on defense and needs him there? Maybe he doesn't have the skill set to play midfield, but is progressing as a defender? Maybe he is really good at defense and the coach needs him there? Would he rather develop into a great defender or average midfielder. I don't know, but it is definitely worth a quick conversation with the coach. Again, I don't see the harm as long as it is approached the right way.

For what it's worth we had a kid who played forward and the coach saw a lot of potential on defense. The kid hated life and the parents weren't happy, but he eventually started to like it and now is just an animal back there. He also brings the ball up the field all the time and distributes to build from the back, which has been wonderful to see. The coach gets all the credit there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is on a U12 team and mostly played one position, which he liked, last season. The team did not have a successful season for multiple reasons, but I honestly think my son did a good job the position. He worked really hard (working out outside of practice, going running). So far, this season, the coach has played him in a different position, which he does not enjoy. I'm not sure what happened, but my son is pretty frustrated. He wants to ask the coach why he isn't in his former position. I think that a better question would be to ask why the coach isn't rotating people some within each season so that they can develop. My wife thinks we should not ask or say anything.

Looking for thoughts on the best way to approach.

It seems to me that the coach has just rotated your son to a different position in exactly the way you want to see - no?

When you talk about rotating positions, I agree that it is good for kids to rotate from time to time - but the way this needs to happen changes as the kids get older. When the kids are 9 it is perfectly possible to rotate them each week. By U12 the kids are (or should be) starting to learn some complexities of the tactics associated with playing each position. For most kids it takes quite a few weeks for them to get a handle on what is expected of them in different situations. At this age too much movement can be just as harmful as too little - as the players never really learn any one position properly - and therefore the team never develops any chemistry.

In general by U14 I would expect to see a team where most positions are fairly well fixed and movement comes one or two players at a time by giving them some gametime at another position while the majority of the team remains fixed around them. Every player should play at least two positions a season this way - but the team cannot change wholesale every week or no-one learns anything. U12 can probably handle a little more movement than U14 - although that depends on how much the coach is trying to teach them.

PP here. Separately I think it is perfectly fine to have your son talk to the coach and
(a) let him know that he played midfield last season and much prefers playing there
(b) ask politely if it is possible for him to get some playing time there this year, and if not - why not.

I would coach your son through the conversation beforehand - and it's fine for you to have it at this age if you think your son won't manage the situation adequately.

Anonymous wrote:My son is on a U12 team and mostly played one position, which he liked, last season. The team did not have a successful season for multiple reasons, but I honestly think my son did a good job the position. He worked really hard (working out outside of practice, going running). So far, this season, the coach has played him in a different position, which he does not enjoy. I'm not sure what happened, but my son is pretty frustrated. He wants to ask the coach why he isn't in his former position. I think that a better question would be to ask why the coach isn't rotating people some within each season so that they can develop. My wife thinks we should not ask or say anything.

Looking for thoughts on the best way to approach.

It seems to me that the coach has just rotated your son to a different position in exactly the way you want to see - no?

When you talk about rotating positions, I agree that it is good for kids to rotate from time to time - but the way this needs to happen changes as the kids get older. When the kids are 9 it is perfectly possible to rotate them each week. By U12 the kids are (or should be) starting to learn some complexities of the tactics associated with playing each position. For most kids it takes quite a few weeks for them to get a handle on what is expected of them in different situations. At this age too much movement can be just as harmful as too little - as the players never really learn any one position properly - and therefore the team never develops any chemistry.

In general by U14 I would expect to see a team where most positions are fairly well fixed and movement comes one or two players at a time by giving them some gametime at another position while the majority of the team remains fixed around them. Every player should play at least two positions a season this way - but the team cannot change wholesale every week or no-one learns anything. U12 can probably handle a little more movement than U14 - although that depends on how much the coach is trying to teach them.

At U12 he should still be rotated. Our coaches specifically told us they are looking for kids that are versatile. Even so, I would have your son talk to him, but careful that its in a positive/improvement way, as opposed to a complaining way (you said nothing to indicate he would, but might be good to model some language with him).

What is the position in question? I'll say as kids get older they should still be rotating positions to a certain degree to aid in development, however, certain kids will be somewhat limited to certain positions over time. For example, if your son played and liked striker, but there are now 3-4 kids that are bigger, stronger, faster, better finishers, the coach will be inclined to rotate those 3-4 kid through that position vs all players on the team.

Thanks. He was a midfielder and is now a defender. He used to be a defender more often when he was younger, and did get compliments on it from coaches and parents on other teams, but it isn't the position he wants to play.

And hey, I am totally open to the idea that he messed up or is somehow lacking - I don't pretend to be the end all and super objective on my own kid's playing. But, if that is the case, the coach should have talked to him about it. His mid-year player eval was overall positive. If it an issue or problem with him, and that's fine, but he needs to know so that he can work at it.