Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anybody else wonder if God, in a second attempt at creation, managed to make a world with perfect people without sin who didn’t end up sinning like Adam and Eve and therefore didn’t need a child of God to be born to die for them?

God would be pretty bored and churches would be out of business

God loves redeemed man more than Adam and Eve. A child who loves you because they choose to is sweeter than a child who can’t choose otherwise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By analogy: say there is a bank that opens in your neighborhood that offers a special ticket to get to heaven. So you open and account and they tell you “cool, you just need to earn 500,000 units of goodness and then you can get your ticket to heaven. These are the things you have to do to earn units (help your neighbor, call your mom, etc.). The catch is that you lose units when you do all these things you shouldn’t (lie, overeat, gossip, swear, hate, envy, etc.).” So you work for a few weeks and you earn some units, but then you lose a bunch too. After a few exhausting months, you check your account and you actually owe the bank now. There is obviously no way you will ever get that ticket.
So now imagine Jesus is the only person who ever earned that ticket to heaven. And now he literally signs you onto his account, you have a debit card with your name on in, and every penny in that account is yours (including heaven). That’s redemption.

I dislike this analogy because it’s like God set the price (500,000) to begin with, knowing you’ll never get there, and the he paid it himself and wants us to praise him? He caused the problem!!! I like the wounded animal analogy better.

He didn’t really set a price though. The whole problem rests on the enormous gulf between an infinitely holy God and sinful humans. The Old Testament is kind of like God trying to help people come “up” to Him (which will never, ever work, we just can’t be that holy) and Jesus was Him coming “down” to us. I think a lot of the confusion over Jesus’ death would disappear if people truly understood how holy God is and how desperately, in-our-bones we love sin more than Him.

Except some people aren't confused or bereft of understanding -- They simply don't believe.

That’s true. I was referring to confused believers, specifically (which is how I read OP to be). I think most Christians have a very rosy view of their own sin and a very small idea of God’s holiness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anybody else wonder if God, in a second attempt at creation, managed to make a world with perfect people without sin who didn’t end up sinning like Adam and Eve and therefore didn’t need a child of God to be born to die for them?

God would be pretty bored and churches would be out of business

Anonymous wrote:Anybody else wonder if God, in a second attempt at creation, managed to make a world with perfect people without sin who didn’t end up sinning like Adam and Eve and therefore didn’t need a child of God to be born to die for them?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By analogy: say there is a bank that opens in your neighborhood that offers a special ticket to get to heaven. So you open and account and they tell you “cool, you just need to earn 500,000 units of goodness and then you can get your ticket to heaven. These are the things you have to do to earn units (help your neighbor, call your mom, etc.). The catch is that you lose units when you do all these things you shouldn’t (lie, overeat, gossip, swear, hate, envy, etc.).” So you work for a few weeks and you earn some units, but then you lose a bunch too. After a few exhausting months, you check your account and you actually owe the bank now. There is obviously no way you will ever get that ticket.
So now imagine Jesus is the only person who ever earned that ticket to heaven. And now he literally signs you onto his account, you have a debit card with your name on in, and every penny in that account is yours (including heaven). That’s redemption.

I dislike this analogy because it’s like God set the price (500,000) to begin with, knowing you’ll never get there, and the he paid it himself and wants us to praise him? He caused the problem!!! I like the wounded animal analogy better.

He didn’t really set a price though. The whole problem rests on the enormous gulf between an infinitely holy God and sinful humans. The Old Testament is kind of like God trying to help people come “up” to Him (which will never, ever work, we just can’t be that holy) and Jesus was Him coming “down” to us. I think a lot of the confusion over Jesus’ death would disappear if people truly understood how holy God is and how desperately, in-our-bones we love sin more than Him.

Except some people aren't confused or bereft of understanding -- They simply don't believe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By analogy: say there is a bank that opens in your neighborhood that offers a special ticket to get to heaven. So you open and account and they tell you “cool, you just need to earn 500,000 units of goodness and then you can get your ticket to heaven. These are the things you have to do to earn units (help your neighbor, call your mom, etc.). The catch is that you lose units when you do all these things you shouldn’t (lie, overeat, gossip, swear, hate, envy, etc.).” So you work for a few weeks and you earn some units, but then you lose a bunch too. After a few exhausting months, you check your account and you actually owe the bank now. There is obviously no way you will ever get that ticket.
So now imagine Jesus is the only person who ever earned that ticket to heaven. And now he literally signs you onto his account, you have a debit card with your name on in, and every penny in that account is yours (including heaven). That’s redemption.

I dislike this analogy because it’s like God set the price (500,000) to begin with, knowing you’ll never get there, and the he paid it himself and wants us to praise him? He caused the problem!!! I like the wounded animal analogy better.

He didn’t really set a price though. The whole problem rests on the enormous gulf between an infinitely holy God and sinful humans. The Old Testament is kind of like God trying to help people come “up” to Him (which will never, ever work, we just can’t be that holy) and Jesus was Him coming “down” to us. I think a lot of the confusion over Jesus’ death would disappear if people truly understood how holy God is and how desperately, in-our-bones we love sin more than Him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By analogy: say there is a bank that opens in your neighborhood that offers a special ticket to get to heaven. So you open and account and they tell you “cool, you just need to earn 500,000 units of goodness and then you can get your ticket to heaven. These are the things you have to do to earn units (help your neighbor, call your mom, etc.). The catch is that you lose units when you do all these things you shouldn’t (lie, overeat, gossip, swear, hate, envy, etc.).” So you work for a few weeks and you earn some units, but then you lose a bunch too. After a few exhausting months, you check your account and you actually owe the bank now. There is obviously no way you will ever get that ticket.
So now imagine Jesus is the only person who ever earned that ticket to heaven. And now he literally signs you onto his account, you have a debit card with your name on in, and every penny in that account is yours (including heaven). That’s redemption.

I dislike this analogy because it’s like God set the price (500,000) to begin with, knowing you’ll never get there, and the he paid it himself and wants us to praise him? He caused the problem!!! I like the wounded animal analogy better.

Anonymous wrote:OP I have never understood this either.

There were countless other people who "died on the cross" and suffered just as much, if not more than Jesus. Crucifixion was a common form of death by the Romans - Jesus' death and suffering were never special. For the life of me, I don't understand why all the other people who died on the cross didn't also "suffer for my sins."

Religion is weird. All religions are weird. They're all myths to convey a story, and hold no actual truth.

Anonymous wrote:Why do people overthink this? It is because it is. There is no why. No religion makes any sense. Well, the Roman and Greek gods make sense but not modern religion. It's the gist of the story and what it represents. Real or not, who knows. I had a Jesuit professor who said that his first question to the Messiah when the Messiah appears on earth is "is this your first time here or have you been here before?" This is from someone who would die to defend his faith.

Anonymous wrote:I struggle with this concept. Can someone explain in the way that is infallible against any counterargument?

Anonymous wrote:By analogy: say there is a bank that opens in your neighborhood that offers a special ticket to get to heaven. So you open and account and they tell you “cool, you just need to earn 500,000 units of goodness and then you can get your ticket to heaven. These are the things you have to do to earn units (help your neighbor, call your mom, etc.). The catch is that you lose units when you do all these things you shouldn’t (lie, overeat, gossip, swear, hate, envy, etc.).” So you work for a few weeks and you earn some units, but then you lose a bunch too. After a few exhausting months, you check your account and you actually owe the bank now. There is obviously no way you will ever get that ticket.
So now imagine Jesus is the only person who ever earned that ticket to heaven. And now he literally signs you onto his account, you have a debit card with your name on in, and every penny in that account is yours (including heaven). That’s redemption.

Anonymous wrote:OP I have never understood this either.

There were countless other people who "died on the cross" and suffered just as much, if not more than Jesus. Crucifixion was a common form of death by the Romans - Jesus' death and suffering were never special. For the life of me, I don't understand why all the other people who died on the cross didn't also "suffer for my sins."

Religion is weird. All religions are weird. They're all myths to convey a story, and hold no actual truth.