Anonymous
03/12/2021 15:52
Subject: APS: gifted identification
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I hate that parents can refer their kids.
Me too. And as early as kindergarten. Tracking that early is dumb. Also- APS fills spots young so when the truly gifted emerge late in elementary- spots are already filled with those that lobbied.
Our kid tests in the top 1% and we got the notice he was gifted in everything at end of 8th. Yeah, no sh@t. His Cogats, 600 SOLs, Nnats, etc all showed this.
He’s now thriving and currently in #1 in his class at a top private HS.
OMG-- YES! I thought this was just happening in our North Arlington ES. So many parents "self-referred" in K and 1st, before the NNAT is even offered. Their kids got spots and other kids then did not, even when scoring high enough on the NNAT in 2nd to be formally referred for services in 3rd grade. I've got one kid tagged in all four subjects, and the other kid tagged in nothing, and I can tell you as their parent that there is not a lot of difference in their raw intelligence. I think there are secret quotas at play here, and a higher # of parents who self-referred in K and 1 in my non-tagged child's class. I'm glad they are moving the NNAT down to 1st grade post-pandemic, because maybe that will stop the self-referral madness.
I wonder if this is at our ES where there are 50-60%+ (not kidding) kids identified as gifted.
No school has that many kids identified.
Anonymous
03/12/2021 15:31
Subject: APS: gifted identification
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I hate that parents can refer their kids.
Me too. And as early as kindergarten. Tracking that early is dumb. Also- APS fills spots young so when the truly gifted emerge late in elementary- spots are already filled with those that lobbied.
Our kid tests in the top 1% and we got the notice he was gifted in everything at end of 8th. Yeah, no sh@t. His Cogats, 600 SOLs, Nnats, etc all showed this.
He’s now thriving and currently in #1 in his class at a top private HS.
OMG-- YES! I thought this was just happening in our North Arlington ES. So many parents "self-referred" in K and 1st, before the NNAT is even offered. Their kids got spots and other kids then did not, even when scoring high enough on the NNAT in 2nd to be formally referred for services in 3rd grade. I've got one kid tagged in all four subjects, and the other kid tagged in nothing, and I can tell you as their parent that there is not a lot of difference in their raw intelligence. I think there are secret quotas at play here, and a higher # of parents who self-referred in K and 1 in my non-tagged child's class. I'm glad they are moving the NNAT down to 1st grade post-pandemic, because maybe that will stop the self-referral madness.
I wonder if this is at our ES where there are 50-60%+ (not kidding) kids identified as gifted.
Here's the reality, especially in the North Arlington elementary schools-- almost all the kids come from upper middle class homes with college educated parents. Most of these kids would be considered "gifted" if you dropped them into schools in less affluent/well-educated areas of the country. So some ES just tag all the kids (resulting in the 50-60% rate) and other principals are uncomfortable with numbers that high so they aim for a lower percentage tagged. That's what I mean by quotas. They aren't fixed standards, but informal targets. The principals have a lot of discretion in how kids get tagged and clustered at their school. So you can have a kid who scores over 120 on the NNAT and is referred, but is determined to be "not gifted" because the child is more laid back/doesn't gun to answer questions in class/doesn't do extra work. The joke on everyone though is that the label means nothing in the end, because by 6th grade, there really isn't any gifted program. Except for an advanced math track, APS gifted education is totally absent in middle school. And by high school, your kids can take whatever classes they want, regardless of how they were labeled in ES.
Actually, it’s not totally absent in middle school. Services are still required and given. Some kids are doing reading projects based on book excerpts while others in the same class are required to read the entire book and submit a more complex final product, for example.
Anonymous
03/12/2021 15:25
Subject: APS: gifted identification
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I hate that parents can refer their kids.
Me too. And as early as kindergarten. Tracking that early is dumb. Also- APS fills spots young so when the truly gifted emerge late in elementary- spots are already filled with those that lobbied.
Our kid tests in the top 1% and we got the notice he was gifted in everything at end of 8th. Yeah, no sh@t. His Cogats, 600 SOLs, Nnats, etc all showed this.
He’s now thriving and currently in #1 in his class at a top private HS.
OMG-- YES! I thought this was just happening in our North Arlington ES. So many parents "self-referred" in K and 1st, before the NNAT is even offered. Their kids got spots and other kids then did not, even when scoring high enough on the NNAT in 2nd to be formally referred for services in 3rd grade. I've got one kid tagged in all four subjects, and the other kid tagged in nothing, and I can tell you as their parent that there is not a lot of difference in their raw intelligence. I think there are secret quotas at play here, and a higher # of parents who self-referred in K and 1 in my non-tagged child's class. I'm glad they are moving the NNAT down to 1st grade post-pandemic, because maybe that will stop the self-referral madness.
I wonder if this is at our ES where there are 50-60%+ (not kidding) kids identified as gifted.
Here's the reality, especially in the North Arlington elementary schools-- almost all the kids come from upper middle class homes with college educated parents. Most of these kids would be considered "gifted" if you dropped them into schools in less affluent/well-educated areas of the country. So some ES just tag all the kids (resulting in the 50-60% rate) and other principals are uncomfortable with numbers that high so they aim for a lower percentage tagged. That's what I mean by quotas. They aren't fixed standards, but informal targets. The principals have a lot of discretion in how kids get tagged and clustered at their school. So you can have a kid who scores over 120 on the NNAT and is referred, but is determined to be "not gifted" because the child is more laid back/doesn't gun to answer questions in class/doesn't do extra work. The joke on everyone though is that the label means nothing in the end, because by 6th grade, there really isn't any gifted program. Except for an advanced math track, APS gifted education is totally absent in middle school. And by high school, your kids can take whatever classes they want, regardless of how they were labeled in ES.
Anonymous
03/12/2021 15:22
Subject: APS: gifted identification
Anonymous wrote:Which one does APS use?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I would not worry about GT designation in APS. At my elementary school, it meant a small group was pulled out weekly to do math games. Kids are placed in different math levels already within classes and among teachers, and your kid can select math classes, as desired beginning 6th grade.
My experience was that an overwhelming number of kids identified as GT in my local elementary school were red-shirted boys (of course a 7 to 8 year-old first grader reads better than my kid who turned 6 during the school year).
Oddly, the one stupid place that GT status matters is if your kid wants to apply to certain governor's school summer programs during high school.
NNAT and cogat are age normed.
Both, different years.
Anonymous
03/12/2021 15:21
Subject: Re:APS: gifted identification
Anonymous wrote:How does clusters work in APS?
My 1st grader just switched to a new teacher since school reopened, so the new teacher barely knows her. Since they are not screening 1st grade this year, shall we do the parent referral? If there aren't much benefit, then I'd rather not bother.
Kids receiving gifted services are required to be grouped with at least 4 other similarly ID’d kids in a class. There are 4 academic areas, and a kid can be ID’d in 1-4 of those areas. A kid receiving just math services, for example, would be grouped with at least 4 other kids receiving math services. A kid receiving services in all academic areas would be grouped with at least 4 others in each area, but those kids don’t always fully overlap.
I wouldn’t bother referring in 1st grade. I would wait for the screeners.
Anonymous
03/12/2021 15:20
Subject: APS: gifted identification
Which one does APS use?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I would not worry about GT designation in APS. At my elementary school, it meant a small group was pulled out weekly to do math games. Kids are placed in different math levels already within classes and among teachers, and your kid can select math classes, as desired beginning 6th grade.
My experience was that an overwhelming number of kids identified as GT in my local elementary school were red-shirted boys (of course a 7 to 8 year-old first grader reads better than my kid who turned 6 during the school year).
Oddly, the one stupid place that GT status matters is if your kid wants to apply to certain governor's school summer programs during high school.
NNAT and cogat are age normed.
Anonymous
03/12/2021 15:07
Subject: APS: gifted identification
Anonymous wrote:I would not worry about GT designation in APS. At my elementary school, it meant a small group was pulled out weekly to do math games. Kids are placed in different math levels already within classes and among teachers, and your kid can select math classes, as desired beginning 6th grade.
My experience was that an overwhelming number of kids identified as GT in my local elementary school were red-shirted boys (of course a 7 to 8 year-old first grader reads better than my kid who turned 6 during the school year).
Oddly, the one stupid place that GT status matters is if your kid wants to apply to certain governor's school summer programs during high school.
NNAT and cogat are age normed.
Anonymous
03/12/2021 15:05
Subject: Re:APS: gifted identification
How does clusters work in APS?
My 1st grader just switched to a new teacher since school reopened, so the new teacher barely knows her. Since they are not screening 1st grade this year, shall we do the parent referral? If there aren't much benefit, then I'd rather not bother.
My 1st grader just switched to a new teacher since school reopened, so the new teacher barely knows her. Since they are not screening 1st grade this year, shall we do the parent referral? If there aren't much benefit, then I'd rather not bother.
Anonymous
03/12/2021 15:01
Subject: APS: gifted identification
I would not worry about GT designation in APS. At my elementary school, it meant a small group was pulled out weekly to do math games. Kids are placed in different math levels already within classes and among teachers, and your kid can select math classes, as desired beginning 6th grade.
My experience was that an overwhelming number of kids identified as GT in my local elementary school were red-shirted boys (of course a 7 to 8 year-old first grader reads better than my kid who turned 6 during the school year).
Oddly, the one stupid place that GT status matters is if your kid wants to apply to certain governor's school summer programs during high school.
My experience was that an overwhelming number of kids identified as GT in my local elementary school were red-shirted boys (of course a 7 to 8 year-old first grader reads better than my kid who turned 6 during the school year).
Oddly, the one stupid place that GT status matters is if your kid wants to apply to certain governor's school summer programs during high school.
Anonymous
03/12/2021 14:38
Subject: APS: gifted identification
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I hate that parents can refer their kids.
Me too. And as early as kindergarten. Tracking that early is dumb. Also- APS fills spots young so when the truly gifted emerge late in elementary- spots are already filled with those that lobbied.
Our kid tests in the top 1% and we got the notice he was gifted in everything at end of 8th. Yeah, no sh@t. His Cogats, 600 SOLs, Nnats, etc all showed this.
He’s now thriving and currently in #1 in his class at a top private HS.
OMG-- YES! I thought this was just happening in our North Arlington ES. So many parents "self-referred" in K and 1st, before the NNAT is even offered. Their kids got spots and other kids then did not, even when scoring high enough on the NNAT in 2nd to be formally referred for services in 3rd grade. I've got one kid tagged in all four subjects, and the other kid tagged in nothing, and I can tell you as their parent that there is not a lot of difference in their raw intelligence. I think there are secret quotas at play here, and a higher # of parents who self-referred in K and 1 in my non-tagged child's class. I'm glad they are moving the NNAT down to 1st grade post-pandemic, because maybe that will stop the self-referral madness.
I had no idea that there was a limit to kids being identified. Mine was ID'd early (not parent referral) and the form is ridiculous for kids that young (no idea if the form is different for school vs parent initiated). I don't know how a parent could answer most of the questions as a self-referral in K without thinking it's a bit ridiculous. There is literally a question about what your child's intellectual hobbies are.
There isn’t a limit.
Anonymous
03/12/2021 14:38
Subject: Re:APS: gifted identification
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Does a referral get a kid tagged as gifted or just qualify them to take a test? My 1st grader's teacher told us that she was going to refer my son at the end of last year, but then the world shut down and APS didn't offer the screener because of the pandemic. This year's 2nd grade teacher barely knows my son because we've been remote. Do I need to do anything to have him tested? I'd prefer not to rely on a screener (as second graders are inconsistent in their test taking performance) and have him take the actual test, if that's how it works.
ThEy all get tested but there’s cases where I could score of might be on the bubble but the teachers I work for them FaceTime and thought you wouldn’t be able to get out of the test.
Wow OK my phone just went bonkers. Try again. They all get tested. There are cases where children are on the Bubble based on their scores, but a teacher referral can put them in the program based on information you cannot gather from the test.
Anonymous
03/12/2021 14:36
Subject: Re:APS: gifted identification
Anonymous wrote:Does a referral get a kid tagged as gifted or just qualify them to take a test? My 1st grader's teacher told us that she was going to refer my son at the end of last year, but then the world shut down and APS didn't offer the screener because of the pandemic. This year's 2nd grade teacher barely knows my son because we've been remote. Do I need to do anything to have him tested? I'd prefer not to rely on a screener (as second graders are inconsistent in their test taking performance) and have him take the actual test, if that's how it works.
ThEy all get tested but there’s cases where I could score of might be on the bubble but the teachers I work for them FaceTime and thought you wouldn’t be able to get out of the test.
Anonymous
03/12/2021 14:34
Subject: Re:APS: gifted identification
Does a referral get a kid tagged as gifted or just qualify them to take a test? My 1st grader's teacher told us that she was going to refer my son at the end of last year, but then the world shut down and APS didn't offer the screener because of the pandemic. This year's 2nd grade teacher barely knows my son because we've been remote. Do I need to do anything to have him tested? I'd prefer not to rely on a screener (as second graders are inconsistent in their test taking performance) and have him take the actual test, if that's how it works.
Anonymous
03/12/2021 14:25
Subject: APS: gifted identification
We went through the process in K after his teacher referred my kid. We knew what we were dealing with, intelligence-wise, but I did NOT want to self-refer or even ask about referral. I would have waited for the NNAT screener if the teacher hadn’t mentioned it. There’s a lot of stigma around self-referrals and I wanted no part of it. We are in another school district now (not in DMV) and they would not accept APS’s “gifted” label or referral, FWIW.
Anonymous
03/12/2021 14:24
Subject: APS: gifted identification
If our kid was flagged as gifted in a subject would they tell us? She's in a small group that the gifted teacher leads at her school every week (5 kids from her grade, not all from her class). But no one has ever told me she'd been flagged for the program.