Anonymous wrote:There is definite truth to this - Americans on the whole are far too clean and sterile, and it's making us MORE sick, not less. Step 1 is getting rid of the hand sanitizer/antibacterial/lysol awfulness. You also don't need to wash your hands 20x a day. When preparing raw food and after going #2? Sure. More than that? Really unnecessary.

Americans as a whole are way too clean, and not in a good way. People here are over reliant on antibacterial everything, have an obsession with taking daily baths, creating sterile environments, and preventing every little sniffle by bringing on medicine. Agreed that this is one of the reasons Americans are so sick, we clean too much. Seems counter-intuitive but there is a host of research to back that up.

yes I worry about this on a societal level. In my house, not so much. My daughter is in daycare and gets plenty of immunity-building exposure, lol. I worry the most about exposure to chemicals from all the sanitizing. I have relatives who Clorox wipe their food containers. That freaks me out.

I do think increased allergy rates have something to do with cleaner environment, but allergies can happen even if you do everything "right." I was raised in the countryside, exposed to plenty of other kids and animals and got lots of outdoor time; my mom was a peds nurse who brought all manner of illnesses home. I still developed a life threatening food allergy as a teenager.

jsmith123 wrote:Yes, I do think about this. Younger DS is in in-person school this year and we've had a couple colds. I was happy, in a weird way. I feel like it's good to be "normal sick".

Also, I have been much less concerned about them getting sick playing in Rock Creek or whatever. I feel like they're introducing species to their microbiomes or something.

Letting your kids play in untreated sewage is just plain dumb. Do you make them drink "raw" water too?

Anonymous wrote:At my house, this is, uh...not an issue.

Same.

Anonymous wrote:The comment about India is sort of interesting. I really just assumed that cases in India simply weren't getting reported, and that it was probably just as bad there as anywhere else. But I just talked to a couple past coworkers that now live in India, and they say that's not entirely true. Sure, not everything is getting reported, but it seems like it really hasn't been as bad there. And I suspect some of that is because they've probably been exposed to more germs than Americans.

Again, it's anecdotal. Yes they studied broad swaths of people (was it Delhi or Mumbai? I can't remember) who should have been sickened and were not. I also personally know people who had to go to ICU type treatment. I do believe that in the US there are also broad swaths of people. Kids and College kids - bars. We have plenty of people in very close contact who are not super hygienic too. Seems to be a plus.

jsmith123 wrote:Yes, I do think about this. Younger DS is in in-person school this year and we've had a couple colds. I was happy, in a weird way. I feel like it's good to be "normal sick".

Also, I have been much less concerned about them getting sick playing in Rock Creek or whatever. I feel like they're introducing species to their microbiomes or something.

Agree...kids getting sick is normal and while it is no fun in the moment, I have chalked it up as their immune systems are getting stronger. I have this debate all the time with my spouse as he freaks out more about for example hand washing after playing outside, whereas I don't even think about it. I prefer my child to eat some dirt, intentional or not, and only wash his hands if really dirty or after going to the bathroom.

Anonymous wrote:Slums in third world countries are really a measurable metric. You live in an India slum, you aren’t running to CVS for a Covid test because you have a sniffle. People get sick and die all the time, but the difference is they don’t seek treatment or it isn’t available. They jus get sick and die where they are- without ever having a covid test, going to hospital, getting oxygen, getting death reported, etc.

Correct...is that lack of medical intervention for the smaller illnesses actually a good thing? I would say yes, those in the slums aren't building up resistance to medicines taken due to the hint of a cough or sniffle. I don't think the data isn't being reported though as we are not seeing vast numbers of unreported deaths. Sure, there are some, and some is relative, that have not been reported- both deaths in general and deaths due to COVID which were never found due to no testing but if a large number of people were dropping dead, slum or not, someone would be reporting this. Not to harp on India because there are other places in the world one might expect to see high levels of infection and subsequent deaths- Lagos comes to mind. We just aren't seeing that though even if you take into account any potential under-reporting. These aren't governments like China either where the State controls the media and even in China where that is so, people found a way, with horrendous consequences, to report the truth.

It’s going to be a rough cold and flu season when things go back to normal. That’s for sure.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I worry a little about my two year old who has never had a fever. Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely happy she is healthy but also wondering if the lack of exposure to people and germs is that good for her.

That doesn’t mean anything. I have three kids, oldest 11 none have ever had fevers. I’m 37 and can recall having a fever maybe twice in my life. That isn’t to say none of us ever get sick with anything, but fever just doesn’t present. I have a sister that gets a 103 fever nearly every time she is sick with anything.

I can’t remember ever cracking 100 degrees. Even with strep or other infections I top out at 99

There was a study done, maybe 3-5 years ago or so, I read about it in the WSJ. Compared the immune systems of children in Africa with those in the west (can’t remember if it was UK/somewhere in Europe or US). Not surprisingly, the African children had much better immune systems. I do recall that the article made sure to point out that the African children didn’t have better health overall, there’s of course malnutrition and other factors, but specifically their immune systems were stronger.

There is definite truth to this - Americans on the whole are far too clean and sterile, and it's making us MORE sick, not less. Step 1 is getting rid of the hand sanitizer/antibacterial/lysol awfulness. You also don't need to wash your hands 20x a day. When preparing raw food and after going #2? Sure. More than that? Really unnecessary.

At my house, this is, uh...not an issue.

Yes, worry about increased severe allergies and autoimmune disease, all increased due to inexperienced and easily confused immune systems

Anonymous wrote:The comment about India is sort of interesting. I really just assumed that cases in India simply weren't getting reported, and that it was probably just as bad there as anywhere else. But I just talked to a couple past coworkers that now live in India, and they say that's not entirely true. Sure, not everything is getting reported, but it seems like it really hasn't been as bad there. And I suspect some of that is because they've probably been exposed to more germs than Americans.

I had also heard this about India from immigrants who theorized the population has stronger immune systems because of all the other diseases they contend with, like dengue.

I do worry about my family's decreased immune system once we're back in the public. Besides making my kids play in dirt, I'm not sure what else to do about it.

Anonymous wrote:This is true - that's why kids in daycare have lower risk of leukemia. Do you have a female dog? Having a female dog in the house and letting the kids play in the dirt greatly benefit their immune system. I also give mine probiotics and vitamin D.

I’ve heard generally having a dog is good for kids, but why female ?