She doesn't cheat, lie or manipulate. She is well-mannered. She comes from a good, solid family.

She is a good, dependable friend. Funny and kind. She is not a back-stabber or a gossip.

She isn't full of drama. She doesn't take provocative selfies and narcissistically post ad museum on social media.

She is not slutting herself out on dating apps or stepping out behind her BFs or husband's back.

She's too smart to fall for your crap.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By "Nice Guy," I assume we're talking about the guy who hovers around a woman, pretending to be her friend, then -- not actually being so nice -- gets pissed when the woman never wants to have sex with him?

Yes. "Nice guys" aren't nice. They feel entitled to things, and they scream about being nice, but it's about getting what they "deserve," not what they actually deserve.

"Deserve" has nothing to do with sexual attraction. The sooner everyone stops thinking that sexual attraction is some kind of morality play where good people who do the right things have sex and bad people are less sexually attractive, the better off we'll be. Sometimes attractive people want to have sex with bad people and don't want to have sex with good people, and that's just the way things go.

That’s not what PP was saying. “Nice guys” feel entitled to sex because they did something nice for a woman, and gets angry that the woman isn’t attracted to him.

Partially - but part of the frustration is also that the woman is having sex with someone else who isn't deserving. Like, if she wasn't going out with anyone or was going out with a really top notch guy, there isn't as much sting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There can't really be an equivalent. Girls don't really grow up thinking that men are supposed to submit to them in some way. You might see a woman say that she is upset that she can't find a good man who is interested in her, or you might see a woman have a crush on a man that she knows doesn't like her back, but it's pretty rare to see a woman angry or surprised that a particular man isn't interested in her. Blame the patriarchy.

I think there can be, just not as common.
The girl that is at the beck and call of her male friends (watching their dogs while they vacation with hotties) and resents they aren’t the girlfriend. They “get even” by meddling in relationships, spreading rumors, etc.

Yes, this is more like it. The key characteristic to Nice Guys is that they aren't really nice -- they are vicious and harmful to others, and other people are trying to avoid them, which just makes them more angry.

A stereotypical "good girl" isn't actively harming other people or a known type that just about everyone wants to avoid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a girl next door married to a nice guy. We had no shortage of dates or interest. In fact, DH was the 3rd guy to propose to me. "Nice guys finish last" definitely didn't work for me or my friends. All the nice guys/girls are married very happily and all the "bad boys" are divorced.

Your nice guy DH is not what OP is referring to

"Nice Guy: Not to be confused with a nice guy (that is, a male that is nice)- When used as a noun instead of an adjective, Nice Guy refers to people (men or women) who believe basic social expectations are currency for sex.
Nice Guy: I don't understand, I'm a good listener, I help carry his/her groceries, and feed the cat while he/she is away, and he/she won't even let me touch him/her!"

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Nice%20Guy

This. He does "nice" things, but they are transactional, with expectations attached. Like, I put a quarter in the machine, why isn't sex coming out?

Also, Nice Guys definitely have their own standards and have no problem deciding that a particular girl isn't hot enough for them, but somehow can't allow women to exercise the same agency. If a woman won't give him her attention, it must be because women only like "Chads" or "Alphas" or whatever nonsense term they are using these days, and not because she just...doesn't find him attractive (or finds him creepy). The defining characteristic of Nice Guy is a sense of entitlement combined with an inability to see women as fully human.

Part of the resentment has to do with feeling misled about "what women want" -- that they say they want one thing, then go out with a guy who is very much not that. "I want a sweet, funny guy who respects me." (Proceeds to go out with a raging asshole who is clearly a disrespectful bully.) I mean, the Nice Guy isn't entitled to sex regardless, but part of the resentment has more to do with who she is having sex with rather than that she's not having sex with him in particular.

Anonymous wrote:By "Nice Guy," I assume we're talking about the guy who hovers around a woman, pretending to be her friend, then -- not actually being so nice -- gets pissed when the woman never wants to have sex with him?

“Nice guys” don’t understand the distinction. Kind men do though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By "Nice Guy," I assume we're talking about the guy who hovers around a woman, pretending to be her friend, then -- not actually being so nice -- gets pissed when the woman never wants to have sex with him?

Yes. "Nice guys" aren't nice. They feel entitled to things, and they scream about being nice, but it's about getting what they "deserve," not what they actually deserve.

"Deserve" has nothing to do with sexual attraction. The sooner everyone stops thinking that sexual attraction is some kind of morality play where good people who do the right things have sex and bad people are less sexually attractive, the better off we'll be. Sometimes attractive people want to have sex with bad people and don't want to have sex with good people, and that's just the way things go.

That’s not what PP was saying. “Nice guys” feel entitled to sex because they did something nice for a woman, and gets angry that the woman isn’t attracted to him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a girl next door married to a nice guy. We had no shortage of dates or interest. In fact, DH was the 3rd guy to propose to me. "Nice guys finish last" definitely didn't work for me or my friends. All the nice guys/girls are married very happily and all the "bad boys" are divorced.

Your nice guy DH is not what OP is referring to

"Nice Guy: Not to be confused with a nice guy (that is, a male that is nice)- When used as a noun instead of an adjective, Nice Guy refers to people (men or women) who believe basic social expectations are currency for sex.
Nice Guy: I don't understand, I'm a good listener, I help carry his/her groceries, and feed the cat while he/she is away, and he/she won't even let me touch him/her!"

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Nice%20Guy

This. He does "nice" things, but they are transactional, with expectations attached. Like, I put a quarter in the machine, why isn't sex coming out?

Also, Nice Guys definitely have their own standards and have no problem deciding that a particular girl isn't hot enough for them, but somehow can't allow women to exercise the same agency. If a woman won't give him her attention, it must be because women only like "Chads" or "Alphas" or whatever nonsense term they are using these days, and not because she just...doesn't find him attractive (or finds him creepy). The defining characteristic of Nice Guy is a sense of entitlement combined with an inability to see women as fully human.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By "Nice Guy," I assume we're talking about the guy who hovers around a woman, pretending to be her friend, then -- not actually being so nice -- gets pissed when the woman never wants to have sex with him?

Yes. "Nice guys" aren't nice. They feel entitled to things, and they scream about being nice, but it's about getting what they "deserve," not what they actually deserve.

"Deserve" has nothing to do with sexual attraction. The sooner everyone stops thinking that sexual attraction is some kind of morality play where good people who do the right things have sex and bad people are less sexually attractive, the better off we'll be. Sometimes attractive people want to have sex with bad people and don't want to have sex with good people, and that's just the way things go.

Anonymous wrote:There can't really be an equivalent. Girls don't really grow up thinking that men are supposed to submit to them in some way. You might see a woman say that she is upset that she can't find a good man who is interested in her, or you might see a woman have a crush on a man that she knows doesn't like her back, but it's pretty rare to see a woman angry or surprised that a particular man isn't interested in her. Blame the patriarchy.

I think there can be, just not as common.
The girl that is at the beck and call of her male friends (watching their dogs while they vacation with hotties) and resents they aren’t the girlfriend. They “get even” by meddling in relationships, spreading rumors, etc.

There can't really be an equivalent. Girls don't really grow up thinking that men are supposed to submit to them in some way. You might see a woman say that she is upset that she can't find a good man who is interested in her, or you might see a woman have a crush on a man that she knows doesn't like her back, but it's pretty rare to see a woman angry or surprised that a particular man isn't interested in her. Blame the patriarchy.

I think it's those girls that pretend to have interests because they think that guys will like them. Like girls who are like "oh, I love camping" (when they really hate it) or "I think playing video games for 14 hours on Saturday is cute!" (when they really think it's ridiculous" or "oh, my favorite food is steak!" (when really they like salads, or pasta or something).

Fits in the same category of trying to be something you're not to "catch" some kind of societally-objective "good mate" while completely missing what actually matters in a relationship like compatibility and mutual respect.

The girl who has been living with her boyfriend for years, sleeping with him, doing his laundry, cooking his meals, caring for his dog, and hoping that if she can be the perfect wife, he will marry her. Commonly heard saying, "If he doesn't propose by the end of this year, I'm really going to leave you guys."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The financially successful "independent" woman who is frustrated that she has no dating options because she can't find a guy that makes more than her.

Agreed. And this struggle is so real. Sigh

Seems like your struggle is a choice. Choose otherwise.

Not necessarily. Compatibility, security, confidence, motivation, and ambition all matter.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a girl next door married to a nice guy. We had no shortage of dates or interest. In fact, DH was the 3rd guy to propose to me. "Nice guys finish last" definitely didn't work for me or my friends. All the nice guys/girls are married very happily and all the "bad boys" are divorced.

Your nice guy DH is not what OP is referring to


"Nice Guy: Not to be confused with a nice guy (that is, a male that is nice)- When used as a noun instead of an adjective, Nice Guy refers to people (men or women) who believe basic social expectations are currency for sex.
Nice Guy: I don't understand, I'm a good listener, I help carry his/her groceries, and feed the cat while he/she is away, and he/she won't even let me touch him/her!"


https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Nice%20Guy

Anonymous wrote:Girl next door

if they are good lucking, they are the opposite of the nice guy. The nice guy is the creep who turns on friends because they won't be more than friends. You'll be hard pressed to find guys who don't like the idea of a good looking girl next door