Anonymous
Post 02/21/2021 08:54     Subject: Re:Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sadly , this is my kid too. In high school now and he gets all the answers right but loses points for never showing the work. And refuses on principle because "its stupid"


Well, tell him that when he goes to work, people won’t be interested in his results without knowing how he got there.

It’s like the bank showing you your balance without an opportunity to see the transactions.


That's kind of funny because I have found the opposite. At work results are the ONLY thing that counts, and no one wants to hear about how I got there (much as I would like to talk about it).
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2021 08:52     Subject: Re:Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
Anonymous wrote:It’s part of math and will be necessary as he advances so definitely best not to fight it but instead support him developing the skill. Whatever you don’t act like getting out of showing work is worthwhile goal or that he is somehow “good at math” because he can do it in his head. Being good at math includes showing work.


This. DH is an aerospace engineer with degrees from MIT and Stanford and showing work is key because a lot of dumb mistakes are made when people try to do the work in their head. Teach your child early so it doesn’t become an issue that holds them back later.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2021 08:52     Subject: Re:Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s part of math and will be necessary as he advances so definitely best not to fight it but instead support him developing the skill. Whatever you don’t act like getting out of showing work is worthwhile goal or that he is somehow “good at math” because he can do it in his head. Being good at math includes showing work.


I would have to disagree with this. When I was a kid, being good at math meant being able to do it in your head. We actually were not allowed to write much out, and lost points if we did. So clearly this is arbitrary.

I’m 50 and remember hearing the mantra “show your work.”


I'm 55 and never heard that. I used to want to write everything out (I still do), and they used to give me low grades because of it, even when my answers were correct. They valued doing everything in your head.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2021 08:48     Subject: Re:Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s part of math and will be necessary as he advances so definitely best not to fight it but instead support him developing the skill. Whatever you don’t act like getting out of showing work is worthwhile goal or that he is somehow “good at math” because he can do it in his head. Being good at math includes showing work.


Exactly. If the instructions say to show your work, that’s what you need to do. There are good reasons for it and kids don’t necessarily understand the underlying reasons now, but they will when they are older. And they will appreciate the teachers who insisted on following instructions.


OP here - I am a teacher, and I don't think our stated mission anywhere is to teach kids to follow instructions. I thought it was to teach them critical thinking, yada yada. So following instructions when it means doing something unnecessary that just make the work harder really isn't worth teaching. Like I said earlier - I was a teacher in fcps, and the only reason we insisted on them writing out the work was when we started the SOL high stakes testing and really needed them to get every answer right. There was no educational theory at all behind that.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2021 08:46     Subject: Re:Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sadly , this is my kid too. In high school now and he gets all the answers right but loses points for never showing the work. And refuses on principle because "its stupid"


Well, tell him that when he goes to work, people won’t be interested in his results without knowing how he got there.

It’s like the bank showing you your balance without an opportunity to see the transactions.


I would compare it more to the grocery store clerk writing a paragraph about how she is giving you back 5 dollars because you gave her ten and the groceries only added up to 5.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2021 08:44     Subject: Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Pick a problem and you write down the steps as he is doing it.
Show him how it looks like with only steps and no final answer quite yet. Concentrate on 'writing down steps and explaining it' as the answer to the question.
I really need an example, because right now it looks like it's 5+5, and no wonder he feels like there are no steps. Even here you have:
step 1: pick up 5 stones
step 2: pick up 5 more stones
step 3: put them all in one pile
step 4: count them all in that pile. See, I stopped at saying it's 10. We don't need 10, we need steps since he cannot do steps. He knows 10. We all know 10. Steps are annoying, but it is what it is.


That helps. I have a first grader who is basically asked to show his work when doing this level of problem and he is so resistant. He was asked to do 10 + 5 and asked to show a strategy or "helper fact" he used. He could not, ended up writing a "helper fact" of 9+5 =14 which didn't actually help him solve the problem, but he also can't write down a strategy of "I just knew it." I wish they would give the kids harder problems to work on when they do these so the kids actually understand why a helper fact or strategy is needed.


Yes, it is not a necessary math skill to write out problems which don't require writing out. Kids will naturally write them out when they actually NEED to write them out.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2021 08:44     Subject: Re:Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s part of math and will be necessary as he advances so definitely best not to fight it but instead support him developing the skill. Whatever you don’t act like getting out of showing work is worthwhile goal or that he is somehow “good at math” because he can do it in his head. Being good at math includes showing work.


I would have to disagree with this. When I was a kid, being good at math meant being able to do it in your head. We actually were not allowed to write much out, and lost points if we did. So clearly this is arbitrary.

I’m 50 and remember hearing the mantra “show your work.”
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2021 08:43     Subject: Re:Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
Anonymous wrote:It’s part of math and will be necessary as he advances so definitely best not to fight it but instead support him developing the skill. Whatever you don’t act like getting out of showing work is worthwhile goal or that he is somehow “good at math” because he can do it in his head. Being good at math includes showing work.


I would have to disagree with this. When I was a kid, being good at math meant being able to do it in your head. We actually were not allowed to write much out, and lost points if we did. So clearly this is arbitrary.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2021 08:27     Subject: Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
Anonymous wrote:Wouldn’t be helpful if the AAP teachers dedicate some time to this topic during instruction time? Actively modeling repeated times is more effective than pissing kids off with a monotonous “show your work”.



AAP teacher here. We do! I model constantly and so do kids. Some kids struggle with showing their work. Some don’t. I think once they get to algebra they should be able to show their work.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2021 23:50     Subject: Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
Wouldn’t be helpful if the AAP teachers dedicate some time to this topic during instruction time? Actively modeling repeated times is more effective than pissing kids off with a monotonous “show your work”.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2021 23:39     Subject: Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
Ask him to help you learn how to do his math. How does he know the answer?

Anonymous
Post 02/20/2021 23:25     Subject: Re:Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
I was sometimes that kid. I can remember doing long division in my head, just writing the answer down as I went and then going back and putting the rest on the paper. As a sloppy kid, I tended to do better focusing on the process than relying on my written work.

I used to resent my teachers insistence on showing my work, but years later I realized they were right. It's not just math, either. Showing your work is critical to keeping units straight in chemistry, documenting computer programs so others can follow what's going on is important, etc.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2021 22:46     Subject: Re:Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
Anonymous wrote:Sadly , this is my kid too. In high school now and he gets all the answers right but loses points for never showing the work. And refuses on principle because "its stupid"


Well, tell him that when he goes to work, people won’t be interested in his results without knowing how he got there.

It’s like the bank showing you your balance without an opportunity to see the transactions.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2021 20:44     Subject: Re:Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
Showing work is an important skill and hard for many kids. My DS struggled up until 10th grade but once it clicked in ds became an excellent math student. Yes, there were bs and cs on the college transcript. Scored 750 and n the math SAT though - so it alll worked out without tutors or pressuring to do better. But showing work also applies to the sciences. Your kid needs to figure it out. It may take time but it’s normal. The teacher is doing her job and your kid does not need to be fixed.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2021 20:34     Subject: Teacher marking things wrong in math if they don't show work
Anonymous wrote:Pick a problem and you write down the steps as he is doing it.
Show him how it looks like with only steps and no final answer quite yet. Concentrate on 'writing down steps and explaining it' as the answer to the question.
I really need an example, because right now it looks like it's 5+5, and no wonder he feels like there are no steps. Even here you have:
step 1: pick up 5 stones
step 2: pick up 5 more stones
step 3: put them all in one pile
step 4: count them all in that pile. See, I stopped at saying it's 10. We don't need 10, we need steps since he cannot do steps. He knows 10. We all know 10. Steps are annoying, but it is what it is.


That helps. I have a first grader who is basically asked to show his work when doing this level of problem and he is so resistant. He was asked to do 10 + 5 and asked to show a strategy or "helper fact" he used. He could not, ended up writing a "helper fact" of 9+5 =14 which didn't actually help him solve the problem, but he also can't write down a strategy of "I just knew it." I wish they would give the kids harder problems to work on when they do these so the kids actually understand why a helper fact or strategy is needed.