Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious. I don’t know if there are hard and fast percentages out there, but for anybody who has been in a PhD program, how many of your colleagues were successful with their dissertation defense? How many or not? If you fail it, are you permitted a second chance to present? Or is it one and done? What happens with the degree status if you don’t pass?

My program had a high fail rate both at our university and compared to similar programs at similar universities. It is also has a high rate of people dropping out. I’m ABD because I dropped out. The same year, a friend transferred (unheard of!) and started over again at another local university. Even with having to retake comps a year later, she was happier. Three of our classmates failed within the next two years. It was a toxic environment.

Same. Knew several people who dropped out of their Ph.D

A bit off topic, but I wonder what percentage of those who begin a Ph.D actually earn their degree?

I didn't go through a PhD program but had a colleague who made it sound like dissertation defense was more political than anything. You only defend if it's hinted that you will pass. My friend actually maneuvered into a new advisor to replace an unsupportive one then successfully defended her dissertation without issue.

My husband has a PhD and serves on people's committees. They just had someone fail her proposal defense and the committee reamed out her advisor for letting her go in front of her committee when she wasn't ready. And that was just the proposal. You'd have to have an absolutely awful advisor to fail your thesis defense.

Anonymous wrote:I failed comps the first try, but successfully made it through PhD defense later. The culture of our school and program was that you do not defend unless you will pass. If you aren't ready after some time, then they ask you to leave with a Masters.

I think of it like a marriage proposal. You don't do it unless you're sure of the outcome.

This is how it works in all the programs I’m familiar with (mostly science if that matters)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious. I don’t know if there are hard and fast percentages out there, but for anybody who has been in a PhD program, how many of your colleagues were successful with their dissertation defense? How many or not? If you fail it, are you permitted a second chance to present? Or is it one and done? What happens with the degree status if you don’t pass?

My program had a high fail rate both at our university and compared to similar programs at similar universities. It is also has a high rate of people dropping out. I’m ABD because I dropped out. The same year, a friend transferred (unheard of!) and started over again at another local university. Even with having to retake comps a year later, she was happier. Three of our classmates failed within the next two years. It was a toxic environment.

For your colleagues that failed, did they go back to continue work and present again? You can’t claim a PhD on a résumé or call yourself Dr. with ABD, right?

NO, you cannot "claim a PhD on a resume or call yourself Dr. with an ABD". I'm not clear why this is even a question. You can't claim credentials that you haven't earned. If you're in a field that includes licensing and/or a member of a professional organization with an ethics code, doing so will likely torpedo your career in very wide-reaching ways.

The ABD is such a crock because the D is the hardest and most difficult part. I would never admit being ABD, either PhD or nothing.

I disagree. Prior to defending my dissertation I completed 3+ years of coursework including multiple practica, passed my written comps, had multiple years of individual and group supervision, passed a foreign language exam, completed a pre-dissertation research project, and completed a year long internship with a competitive application process. Being able to indicate my status as an ABD was an asset that appropriately allowed me to find jobs that financially allowed me to work on and complete my dissertation — a process that took a couple of years.

Eh, that really depends on the program, and maybe the field. In my PhD program, we had several pre-dissertation research projects, but the dissertation was the hardest part. We did not have heavy coursework, comps, or practica/internships.

I hire researchers who mostly have PhDs and I would not find ABD status to be much of an asset. I would think of someone who is ABD as similar to someone with a terminal MS, except that I would be wondering why they couldn't finish their dissertation. I'd also be wondering why they are advertising their ABD status as if I should be impressed by it.

I am a phd student in uws fail in transverse event, supervision is not supporting what can I do as a international student

I fail my transverse event in phd what to do supervisor is in favor to continue as I international student-athletes can I doplease suggest

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can defend again. You don’t defend until you are prepared, and your major professor should be sure you are prepared. It isn’t a test in the usual sense. Im sure difference disciplines do it differently, but I think if you get to the point of defending your dissertation you generally are going to finish. Many people never defend, though - that is the real danger.

This. Generally, dissertation advisors gatekeep defense. If the professor allows it and you fail, that reflects poorly on the advisor. If I was a committee member, I'd be pissed as a lot of preparation goes into preparing for a defense and a not ready for prime time dissertation is a massive waste of everyone's time.

It's this. Outside referees come in (sometimes from far away) to attend the defense. The defense is not supposed to be a real test. Your advisor should not allow the real defense to be organized unless it's sure you are ready.

Exactly. There are not supposed to be surprises at a thesis defense. Nobody is supposed to be pins & needles on the edge of their seat, uncertain of outcome.

Anonymous wrote:What is ABD?

"All But Dissertation"

What is ABD?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious. I don’t know if there are hard and fast percentages out there, but for anybody who has been in a PhD program, how many of your colleagues were successful with their dissertation defense? How many or not? If you fail it, are you permitted a second chance to present? Or is it one and done? What happens with the degree status if you don’t pass?

My program had a high fail rate both at our university and compared to similar programs at similar universities. It is also has a high rate of people dropping out. I’m ABD because I dropped out. The same year, a friend transferred (unheard of!) and started over again at another local university. Even with having to retake comps a year later, she was happier. Three of our classmates failed within the next two years. It was a toxic environment.

For your colleagues that failed, did they go back to continue work and present again? You can’t claim a PhD on a résumé or call yourself Dr. with ABD, right?

NO, you cannot "claim a PhD on a resume or call yourself Dr. with an ABD". I'm not clear why this is even a question. You can't claim credentials that you haven't earned. If you're in a field that includes licensing and/or a member of a professional organization with an ethics code, doing so will likely torpedo your career in very wide-reaching ways.

The ABD is such a crock because the D is the hardest and most difficult part. I would never admit being ABD, either PhD or nothing.

I disagree. Prior to defending my dissertation I completed 3+ years of coursework including multiple practica, passed my written comps, had multiple years of individual and group supervision, passed a foreign language exam, completed a pre-dissertation research project, and completed a year long internship with a competitive application process. Being able to indicate my status as an ABD was an asset that appropriately allowed me to find jobs that financially allowed me to work on and complete my dissertation — a process that took a couple of years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can defend again. You don’t defend until you are prepared, and your major professor should be sure you are prepared. It isn’t a test in the usual sense. Im sure difference disciplines do it differently, but I think if you get to the point of defending your dissertation you generally are going to finish. Many people never defend, though - that is the real danger.

This. Generally, dissertation advisors gatekeep defense. If the professor allows it and you fail, that reflects poorly on the advisor. If I was a committee member, I'd be pissed as a lot of preparation goes into preparing for a defense and a not ready for prime time dissertation is a massive waste of everyone's time.

Correct. Lots of people fail Ph.D. comps (and Masters out or retake them). It is rare in the US to fail a dissertation, and generally the advisor's fault for not recognizing the student is not ready. Some corrections are normal, though, but this essentially counts as 'passed'.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious. I don’t know if there are hard and fast percentages out there, but for anybody who has been in a PhD program, how many of your colleagues were successful with their dissertation defense? How many or not? If you fail it, are you permitted a second chance to present? Or is it one and done? What happens with the degree status if you don’t pass?

My program had a high fail rate both at our university and compared to similar programs at similar universities. It is also has a high rate of people dropping out. I’m ABD because I dropped out. The same year, a friend transferred (unheard of!) and started over again at another local university. Even with having to retake comps a year later, she was happier. Three of our classmates failed within the next two years. It was a toxic environment.

For your colleagues that failed, did they go back to continue work and present again? You can’t claim a PhD on a résumé or call yourself Dr. with ABD, right?

NO, you cannot "claim a PhD on a resume or call yourself Dr. with an ABD". I'm not clear why this is even a question. You can't claim credentials that you haven't earned. If you're in a field that includes licensing and/or a member of a professional organization with an ethics code, doing so will likely torpedo your career in very wide-reaching ways.

The ABD is such a crock because the D is the hardest and most difficult part. I would never admit being ABD, either PhD or nothing.

Thanks all from OP. I’ve always wondered about the process and appreciate the insights.

It's very uncommon. You might be asked to rewrite a portion, or add a section, before the official sign-off, but your advisor shouldn't let you defend if you aren't ready. The defense isn't exactly a formality, but pretty close.