Anonymous wrote:At this point, I’m pretty philosophical about this whole mess. I don’t think it’s fair to ask teachers to work in person until they are fully vaccinated. I certainly don’t think it makes sense in terms of public health. So I guess I see their point of view.

If teachers do decide to strike, I hope they don’t dump a load of “asynchronous” work for students to do on their own (aka teachers dump their role as DL facilitators on parents). If teachers vote for no DL, well what am I gonna do. But please: no DL means no DL.

Philosophically, what do you see the solution as being? Kids have a legal right to education from 5 years on. Parents have a legal responsibility to arrange for that education. Public schools exist because the mandate that every child be in school requires a public and collective solution.

If the teachers refuse to do any more DL and the schools aren’t open for whatever reason, what happens to the rights of kids to an education? Will parents be punished if they’re unable to provide one?

- not a hostile question, genuinely curious about your thoughts

At this point, I’m pretty philosophical about this whole mess. I don’t think it’s fair to ask teachers to work in person until they are fully vaccinated. I certainly don’t think it makes sense in terms of public health. So I guess I see their point of view.

If teachers do decide to strike, I hope they don’t dump a load of “asynchronous” work for students to do on their own (aka teachers dump their role as DL facilitators on parents). If teachers vote for no DL, well what am I gonna do. But please: no DL means no DL.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would support a strike if the demand is full, effective vaccination of faculty and staff barring documented medical excuse. Every faculty/staff member would report to the middle school where they teach or that is part of their school’s feeder pattern the following Saturday for the first shot and three Saturdays later for the second. In-person school would start the following Monday. Teachers who have a medical excuse not to be vaxxed would teach DL for the students who cannot attend in person. Teachers who refuse to be vaxxed would be placed on unpaid leave.

Otherwise, no. I do not support a strike.

This will not happen, of course.

I generally support the decisions of union members to participate in a strike. I'm not thrilled about the way WTU has conducted themselves _as an organization_ during all of this, but ultimately, given the history between the district and the union, I place more of the fault for the overall situation on DCPS _as an organization_ - not just for the way they have behaved during the pandemic, but going back for years during which school facilities slid into disrepair, teacher contracts took YEARS to negotiate, and pandemic recovery plans contained a lot of "just trust us" rather than hard numbers about what would be provided and when. In general, morally, I support labor over management. Every time.

I also support the above. I do not believe there should be philosophical vaccine exemptions for students or staff. Medical exemptions only and if you refuse to get the shot for anything other than medical reasons (documented by a physician), you are no longer eligible for your job. I personally think that vaccination for everything (including the flu shot, every year) should be mandatory for anyone working in schools (excepting the people with documented medical exemptions). I think it should be considered the same as any other qualification. Ditto healthcare, including home healthcare. I am extremely tired of this American mentality about vaccines that regular people working as lawyers and grocery store clerks and yoga instructors suddenly know enough about the science of vaccine development and epidemiology to competently decide whether something is safe. I'm pretty tired of the "everyone makes the best decision for themselves and their family" bs. Widespread public vaccination in line with CDC standards should be the requirement for education and healthcare. If you don't want a vaccine or don't want your kids vaccinated, you don't get to participate in those systems, period.

I'm concerned that people think teacher vaccination will just end the DL nightmare, and they won't. I'm hoping that teachers (and the WTU) will be good with vaccination + masking + distancing (through hybrid) + updated ventilation systems + all the other OSSE protocols. However, I've heard teachers (and seen WTU twitter) state the following:
1) vaccines aren't 100% effective (I'm not sure what the conclusion is on this point....)
2) we still don't know if being vaccinated means you can't carry it, so all people that teachers live with also need to be vaccinated to make teachers feel comfortable. This starts the thinking that teachers with kids will only be comfortable going to in-person learning when there is a childhood vaccine.
3) kids can still get covid and DIE even with teachers vaccinated (again the argument seems to be that a childhood vaccine is necessary before in-person school can happen?)
4) kids can still carry covid home so everyone they live with needs to be vaccinated too before they go into school at all
5) all school staff and their families need to be vaccinated before in-person learning can happen
6) new variants mean the vaccines don't matter (I'm not sure this is supported by science, but that's not really the point)

I'm just saying that already there are multiple new ways of arguing for DL forever, even with teachers fully vaccinated.

I agree that some baseline needs to be established for the minimum vaccination required to open schools in a reasonably safe way. I myself would prefer that the baseline be "all school personnel are fully vaccinated as of 7 days before the first day of IPL" vs. every single person in the country needs to be vaccinated before schools can reopen. Teachers are personally protected by their own vaccines, which work effectively to prevent infection, which is why they are available in the first place. 100% effectiveness is not the standard for anything. The measles vaccine is only 97% effective after both doses are administered, but it has been effectively preventing measles in populations with herd immunity for as long as I've been alive and measles is a lot more contagious than COVID.

We are no longer with DCPS, but our new school system (outside the area) is opening today for hybrid learning for elementary school. Our union has not been anywhere near as difficult as WTU has been, and the result has actually been a nice working collaboration between our district and our union such that everyone feels that everyone else is acting in the best interests of the children while also considering their own needs and conditions. It does not have to be so adversarial. The problem with the DCPS situation is that neither the union nor the district have been acting in good faith on anything that matters for a really long time. My only issue with our district right now is that our county has not yet moved to the phase where educators are eligible for vaccination. We don't have enough vaccine for everyone in the previous categories to get their full dose right now. I strongly believe that the school district should have postponed the opening date until classroom teachers at the very least are able to get ONE dose of vaccine, but the district was very attached to reopening at the semester switch and now my kid is going back to school with double masks (medical grade and fashion + filter) on Thursday. She is excited, I am terrified. I also know that her going back to school was going to be scary regardless of when it happened and that most likely, it will be fine.

Another No here. I'm generally pro-union, but I think the teachers union has made unreasonable demands all along here. I appreciate the demands they made for ventilation improvements (helped everyone) and small in-person cohorts to return, but continuing to move the bar isn't cool. Demanding a level for community spread at which the city would re-close makes sense to me, but that doesn't seem to be on the table.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would support a strike if the demand is full, effective vaccination of faculty and staff barring documented medical excuse. Every faculty/staff member would report to the middle school where they teach or that is part of their school’s feeder pattern the following Saturday for the first shot and three Saturdays later for the second. In-person school would start the following Monday. Teachers who have a medical excuse not to be vaxxed would teach DL for the students who cannot attend in person. Teachers who refuse to be vaxxed would be placed on unpaid leave.

Otherwise, no. I do not support a strike.

This will not happen, of course.

I generally support the decisions of union members to participate in a strike. I'm not thrilled about the way WTU has conducted themselves _as an organization_ during all of this, but ultimately, given the history between the district and the union, I place more of the fault for the overall situation on DCPS _as an organization_ - not just for the way they have behaved during the pandemic, but going back for years during which school facilities slid into disrepair, teacher contracts took YEARS to negotiate, and pandemic recovery plans contained a lot of "just trust us" rather than hard numbers about what would be provided and when. In general, morally, I support labor over management. Every time.

I also support the above. I do not believe there should be philosophical vaccine exemptions for students or staff. Medical exemptions only and if you refuse to get the shot for anything other than medical reasons (documented by a physician), you are no longer eligible for your job. I personally think that vaccination for everything (including the flu shot, every year) should be mandatory for anyone working in schools (excepting the people with documented medical exemptions). I think it should be considered the same as any other qualification. Ditto healthcare, including home healthcare. I am extremely tired of this American mentality about vaccines that regular people working as lawyers and grocery store clerks and yoga instructors suddenly know enough about the science of vaccine development and epidemiology to competently decide whether something is safe. I'm pretty tired of the "everyone makes the best decision for themselves and their family" bs. Widespread public vaccination in line with CDC standards should be the requirement for education and healthcare. If you don't want a vaccine or don't want your kids vaccinated, you don't get to participate in those systems, period.

I'm concerned that people think teacher vaccination will just end the DL nightmare, and they won't. I'm hoping that teachers (and the WTU) will be good with vaccination + masking + distancing (through hybrid) + updated ventilation systems + all the other OSSE protocols. However, I've heard teachers (and seen WTU twitter) state the following:
1) vaccines aren't 100% effective (I'm not sure what the conclusion is on this point....)
2) we still don't know if being vaccinated means you can't carry it, so all people that teachers live with also need to be vaccinated to make teachers feel comfortable. This starts the thinking that teachers with kids will only be comfortable going to in-person learning when there is a childhood vaccine.
3) kids can still get covid and DIE even with teachers vaccinated (again the argument seems to be that a childhood vaccine is necessary before in-person school can happen?)
4) kids can still carry covid home so everyone they live with needs to be vaccinated too before they go into school at all
5) all school staff and their families need to be vaccinated before in-person learning can happen
6) new variants mean the vaccines don't matter (I'm not sure this is supported by science, but that's not really the point)

I'm just saying that already there are multiple new ways of arguing for DL forever, even with teachers fully vaccinated.

Anonymous wrote:I would support a strike if the demand is full, effective vaccination of faculty and staff barring documented medical excuse. Every faculty/staff member would report to the middle school where they teach or that is part of their school’s feeder pattern the following Saturday for the first shot and three Saturdays later for the second. In-person school would start the following Monday. Teachers who have a medical excuse not to be vaxxed would teach DL for the students who cannot attend in person. Teachers who refuse to be vaxxed would be placed on unpaid leave.

Otherwise, no. I do not support a strike.

This will not happen, of course.

I generally support the decisions of union members to participate in a strike. I'm not thrilled about the way WTU has conducted themselves _as an organization_ during all of this, but ultimately, given the history between the district and the union, I place more of the fault for the overall situation on DCPS _as an organization_ - not just for the way they have behaved during the pandemic, but going back for years during which school facilities slid into disrepair, teacher contracts took YEARS to negotiate, and pandemic recovery plans contained a lot of "just trust us" rather than hard numbers about what would be provided and when. In general, morally, I support labor over management. Every time.

I also support the above. I do not believe there should be philosophical vaccine exemptions for students or staff. Medical exemptions only and if you refuse to get the shot for anything other than medical reasons (documented by a physician), you are no longer eligible for your job. I personally think that vaccination for everything (including the flu shot, every year) should be mandatory for anyone working in schools (excepting the people with documented medical exemptions). I think it should be considered the same as any other qualification. Ditto healthcare, including home healthcare. I am extremely tired of this American mentality about vaccines that regular people working as lawyers and grocery store clerks and yoga instructors suddenly know enough about the science of vaccine development and epidemiology to competently decide whether something is safe. I'm pretty tired of the "everyone makes the best decision for themselves and their family" bs. Widespread public vaccination in line with CDC standards should be the requirement for education and healthcare. If you don't want a vaccine or don't want your kids vaccinated, you don't get to participate in those systems, period.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well, I'm French. Unfortunately, in France, striking has become a very bad habit.

I would only support a strike if I wanted what they were striking for, OP. Duh.

LOL. French here and I think you're full of it. Because of my French upbringing, I would support the teachers strike by default no matter what, until and unless I see an egregious reason not to. Such reason is highly unlikely and wouldn't be spoonfed to me by the Washington Times or DCUM. And yes, even if it meant no DL, even though we are DL-only. That's All the apps on Clever would get a lot of use.

In the 90ies, I lived through 6 icy winter weeks of public transit strike in Paris, with massive day-long gridlockas some tried driving instead, all hotels in town getting booked up by workers from suburbia who didn't want to miss work, and a huge run on sports gear stores for bikes, skates, anything they could use.

I still supported the strike.

All that I can see came out of it was win wins of a still outstanding subway system, and some great biking habits that prompted the creation of lots and lots of protected bike lanes a few short years later.
I bet all the great walkability and car-free initiatives in Paris now wouldn't be possible without that strike.

My goodness. It's almost as if people have different opinions and experiences, even if they are both French! Who in the world would have thought that possible!?

Hell no I don't support a teacher strike. I lost all respect for the teachers and my kid's school when they had that sick out day in the fall. They need to go back to the classrooms. That is their job and that is where the kids need them. If a teacher doesn't want to go back then they can quit.

Anonymous wrote:I just think DCPS should have called a snow day to give everyone a breather.

I don’t. If we truly believe kids have fallen behind, they need every moment with a teacher receiving an education. I personally believe they should cancel all pd, parent conferences, records day and spring break in order to start to remediate the gap.

Anonymous wrote:I support WTU and love my child’s teachers but I don’t think there’s public support for a teacher strike right now. Teachers and parents are all stretched so thin after almost a year of this. I think it would do long term harm to DCPS and the relationship between parents and teachers within the school system, strengthening Bowser and the charter movement. That being said I won’t be advocating for anyone to get fired or anything.

I also don't want teachers fired. That helps no one. But I would fully support them not getting paid for each day of absence. Also, they should not be eligible for any incentive-based bonuses for the year.

I just think DCPS should have called a snow day to give everyone a breather.

I support WTU and love my child’s teachers but I don’t think there’s public support for a teacher strike right now. Teachers and parents are all stretched so thin after almost a year of this. I think it would do long term harm to DCPS and the relationship between parents and teachers within the school system, strengthening Bowser and the charter movement. That being said I won’t be advocating for anyone to get fired or anything.

Anonymous wrote:
Well, I'm French. Unfortunately, in France, striking has become a very bad habit.

I would only support a strike if I wanted what they were striking for, OP. Duh.

LOL. French here and I think you're full of it. Because of my French upbringing, I would support the teachers strike by default no matter what, until and unless I see an egregious reason not to. Such reason is highly unlikely and wouldn't be spoonfed to me by the Washington Times or DCUM. And yes, even if it meant no DL, even though we are DL-only. That's All the apps on Clever would get a lot of use.

In the 90ies, I lived through 6 icy winter weeks of public transit strike in Paris, with massive day-long gridlockas some tried driving instead, all hotels in town getting booked up by workers from suburbia who didn't want to miss work, and a huge run on sports gear stores for bikes, skates, anything they could use.

I still supported the strike.

All that I can see came out of it was win wins of a still outstanding subway system, and some great biking habits that prompted the creation of lots and lots of protected bike lanes a few short years later.
I bet all the great walkability and car-free initiatives in Paris now wouldn't be possible without that strike.

If they wanted to strike over this, they shouldn't have signed the MOA. The arbitrator ruled that the city had kept up it's end of the deal in virtually all cases (and those need to be rectified before in person starts, so those teachers are getting the protections they're entitled to).

There are a lot of people on this site claiming that the situation has changed since the MOA was signed, but that is COMPLETELY untrue:

- Cases are not higher now than they were when the MOA was signed.

- The UK variant had already been founded and accounted for more than 1/2 the cases in London when the MOA was signed.

- The vaccine schedule had already been announced when the MOA was signed (and though there has been a slow down across the district in rollout, DCPS teachers returning in person got their vaccine when they were supposed to under the original plan).

The WTU does not get to keep negotiating in bad faith, while complaining to the PERB that DCPS is not negotiating (gee, I wonder why not) and THEN strike with no consequences. No. I'm done. You bargained for this. You got this. Back to school.

Of course not, and if any teachers do this, they should be fired.