Anonymous
02/01/2021 17:49
Subject: Re:College Search
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
There is a government (NSF) database that tracks U.S. PhDs by undergraduate institution. Of all national public universities, William & Mary is #1 overall on a per capita basis, and #4 for STEM PhDs behind Berkeley and two more specialized schools including the Colorado School of Mines.
This is correct, but it gets beaten by actual LACs for PhD production on a per capita basis. It should be no surprise that the most LAC-like private university tops this list.
When it comes to "grade deflation" (which only means less grade inflation), this is largely due to the mix of majors. Generally more science classes means lower grades. Sorry, but admission to med school shouldn't be handed out like participation trophies.
William and Mary gets beat by some "actual LACs" for PhD production on a per capita basis, but it is ahead of many. It is easily behind Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, etc., but tied on percentage with schools like Middlebury and Davidson and ahead of schools like Hamilton and Washington and Lee. William and Mary is ahead of all public universities, including Berkeley, and well ahead of schools like Michigan, UVA, UNC, UCLA, and Georgia Tech.
Anonymous
01/31/2021 14:29
Subject: College Search
Anonymous wrote:William and Mary is not “viewed more highly” than elite public universities. That is nonsense.
No, it IS an elite public university. You try to get in!
Anonymous
01/31/2021 12:52
Subject: Re:College Search
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:W&M is notorious for grade deflation.
Proving yet again that it is a school that takes education seriously...
What good does that do to students who can not get into their goal of attending medical school or top-tier graduate school? Yay, you received a top-notch undergrad education but now your grad school experience won't be as good and you won't get as good as grad school experience. Nor will you get into medical school. Oh well - top notch undergrad education!
If your goal is a top-tier graduate program, isn't it more important that your final degree comes from a higher ranked place than the degrees prior to your final degree?
What good does having a top-notch undergrad education do - and one with grade deflation - if you can't get into top-tier graduate programs for your final degree?
Where can my W&M level kid go to undergraduate and get really good grades so they get into a top med school?
All of the schools listed by OP are on the same general academic reputation level. If I were choosing among them, I'd make the decision based on affordability, fit, and maybe intended field of study. But, really, only the obsessive weirdo would argue that all things being equal one is better than the other.
To your specific question, if you're VA in state and have a W&M level kid looking to get good grades and get into med school I'd go to VCU. It's not gonna have the cache you want for now -- your friends won't be impressed -- but down the road it's the best choice. It has a guaranteed admissions program to VCU's med school and your kid is likely smart and driven enough to qualify.
You have to be admitted into the guaranteed medical admission program at VCU. If you are not admitted into that program, I don't know of any advantages VCU provides.
If the kid has W&M stats she will get admitted.
Possibly, but it looks like only 4.6% are admitted. You also then have to maintain grades, I believe.
Profile of 2020 Applicants
Applications were received from 680 high school seniors for the Fall 2020 entering freshman class. Sixty-four students were selected for an interview. In mid-March, 31 students received an acceptance letter. The average unweighted GPA for accepted candidates was a 3.91, and their SAT scores ranged from 1330 to 1560 (critical reading and math), with an average of 1490. ACT composite scores ranged from 31 to 36 with an average of 34. In addition, accepted candidates had accumulated an average of 450 hours of healthcare-related experience.
Anonymous
01/31/2021 12:22
Subject: Re:College Search
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:W&M is notorious for grade deflation.
Proving yet again that it is a school that takes education seriously...
What good does that do to students who can not get into their goal of attending medical school or top-tier graduate school? Yay, you received a top-notch undergrad education but now your grad school experience won't be as good and you won't get as good as grad school experience. Nor will you get into medical school. Oh well - top notch undergrad education!
If your goal is a top-tier graduate program, isn't it more important that your final degree comes from a higher ranked place than the degrees prior to your final degree?
What good does having a top-notch undergrad education do - and one with grade deflation - if you can't get into top-tier graduate programs for your final degree?
Where can my W&M level kid go to undergraduate and get really good grades so they get into a top med school?
All of the schools listed by OP are on the same general academic reputation level. If I were choosing among them, I'd make the decision based on affordability, fit, and maybe intended field of study. But, really, only the obsessive weirdo would argue that all things being equal one is better than the other.
To your specific question, if you're VA in state and have a W&M level kid looking to get good grades and get into med school I'd go to VCU. It's not gonna have the cache you want for now -- your friends won't be impressed -- but down the road it's the best choice. It has a guaranteed admissions program to VCU's med school and your kid is likely smart and driven enough to qualify.
You have to be admitted into the guaranteed medical admission program at VCU. If you are not admitted into that program, I don't know of any advantages VCU provides.
If the kid has W&M stats she will get admitted.
Anonymous
01/31/2021 12:21
Subject: Re:College Search
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:W&M is notorious for grade deflation.
Proving yet again that it is a school that takes education seriously...
What good does that do to students who can not get into their goal of attending medical school or top-tier graduate school? Yay, you received a top-notch undergrad education but now your grad school experience won't be as good and you won't get as good as grad school experience. Nor will you get into medical school. Oh well - top notch undergrad education!
If your goal is a top-tier graduate program, isn't it more important that your final degree comes from a higher ranked place than the degrees prior to your final degree?
What good does having a top-notch undergrad education do - and one with grade deflation - if you can't get into top-tier graduate programs for your final degree?
Where can my W&M level kid go to undergraduate and get really good grades so they get into a top med school?
All of the schools listed by OP are on the same general academic reputation level. If I were choosing among them, I'd make the decision based on affordability, fit, and maybe intended field of study. But, really, only the obsessive weirdo would argue that all things being equal one is better than the other.
To your specific question, if you're VA in state and have a W&M level kid looking to get good grades and get into med school I'd go to VCU. It's not gonna have the cache you want for now -- your friends won't be impressed -- but down the road it's the best choice. It has a guaranteed admissions program to VCU's med school and your kid is likely smart and driven enough to qualify.
You have to be admitted into the guaranteed medical admission program at VCU. If you are not admitted into that program, I don't know of any advantages VCU provides.
Anonymous
01/31/2021 10:59
Subject: Re:College Search
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:W&M is notorious for grade deflation.
Proving yet again that it is a school that takes education seriously...
What good does that do to students who can not get into their goal of attending medical school or top-tier graduate school? Yay, you received a top-notch undergrad education but now your grad school experience won't be as good and you won't get as good as grad school experience. Nor will you get into medical school. Oh well - top notch undergrad education!
If your goal is a top-tier graduate program, isn't it more important that your final degree comes from a higher ranked place than the degrees prior to your final degree?
What good does having a top-notch undergrad education do - and one with grade deflation - if you can't get into top-tier graduate programs for your final degree?
Where can my W&M level kid go to undergraduate and get really good grades so they get into a top med school?
All of the schools listed by OP are on the same general academic reputation level. If I were choosing among them, I'd make the decision based on affordability, fit, and maybe intended field of study. But, really, only the obsessive weirdo would argue that all things being equal one is better than the other.
To your specific question, if you're VA in state and have a W&M level kid looking to get good grades and get into med school I'd go to VCU. It's not gonna have the cache you want for now -- your friends won't be impressed -- but down the road it's the best choice. It has a guaranteed admissions program to VCU's med school and your kid is likely smart and driven enough to qualify.
Anonymous
01/31/2021 10:50
Subject: College Search
Generally the flagships grade much harder in the premed prerequisite than smaller LACs. Those classes are weed out classes.
Anonymous
01/31/2021 04:22
Subject: College Search
MarkT wrote:How is the College of William and Mary regarded in academic and post-graduate circles? Had a son recently admitted and was wondering about reputation against others like UVA, BC, and Michigan.
This website below puts federal data on the undergraduate schools of PhD recipients into a relatively easy to use filter. I looked at PhDs earned in 2013-2018. On a per capita basis, William and Mary is more productive than UVA, BC, and Michigan. William and Mary per capita production is about 1.6X that of UVA, 1.7X that of Michigan, and 2.3X that of BC. You can drill down into academic areas if you want to.
https://www.highereddatastories.com/2020/12/baccalaureate-origins-of-doctoral.html
If you are interested in other areas like law, I am not aware of website that provides details like the federal (NSF) source above.
Anonymous
01/28/2021 19:54
Subject: Re:College Search
Interesting
Anonymous
01/28/2021 18:57
Subject: Re:College Search
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:W&M is notorious for grade deflation.
Proving yet again that it is a school that takes education seriously...
What good does that do to students who can not get into their goal of attending medical school or top-tier graduate school? Yay, you received a top-notch undergrad education but now your grad school experience won't be as good and you won't get as good as grad school experience. Nor will you get into medical school. Oh well - top notch undergrad education!
If your goal is a top-tier graduate program, isn't it more important that your final degree comes from a higher ranked place than the degrees prior to your final degree?
What good does having a top-notch undergrad education do - and one with grade deflation - if you can't get into top-tier graduate programs for your final degree?
Where can my W&M level kid go to undergraduate and get really good grades so they get into a top med school?
Alabama. Roll Tide.
I read your response as being sarcastic and putting down of Alabama but why would W&M undergrad -> Alabama Medical School be seen as better than Alabama undergrad -> Johns Hopkins University? Or W&M undergrad -> can't get into medical school so Alabama graduate school in Biology vs Alabama undergrad -> Johns Hopkins University?
I didn't make the Alabama comment, but why in the world would you assume the above outcomes?
I think they were assuming Alabama is easier grading, so you could get a higher GPA for graduate school. The link that was shared before shows Alabama with a lower average GPA than William and Mary, though. 3.13 at Alabama vs. 3.33 for William and Mary.
Anonymous
01/27/2021 18:58
Subject: Re:College Search
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:W&M is notorious for grade deflation.
Proving yet again that it is a school that takes education seriously...
What good does that do to students who can not get into their goal of attending medical school or top-tier graduate school? Yay, you received a top-notch undergrad education but now your grad school experience won't be as good and you won't get as good as grad school experience. Nor will you get into medical school. Oh well - top notch undergrad education!
If your goal is a top-tier graduate program, isn't it more important that your final degree comes from a higher ranked place than the degrees prior to your final degree?
What good does having a top-notch undergrad education do - and one with grade deflation - if you can't get into top-tier graduate programs for your final degree?
Where can my W&M level kid go to undergraduate and get really good grades so they get into a top med school?
Alabama. Roll Tide.
I read your response as being sarcastic and putting down of Alabama but why would W&M undergrad -> Alabama Medical School be seen as better than Alabama undergrad -> Johns Hopkins University? Or W&M undergrad -> can't get into medical school so Alabama graduate school in Biology vs Alabama undergrad -> Johns Hopkins University?
I didn't make the Alabama comment, but why in the world would you assume the above outcomes?
Anonymous
01/27/2021 16:42
Subject: Re:College Search
Anonymous wrote:
There is a government (NSF) database that tracks U.S. PhDs by undergraduate institution. Of all national public universities, William & Mary is #1 overall on a per capita basis, and #4 for STEM PhDs behind Berkeley and two more specialized schools including the Colorado School of Mines.
This is correct, but it gets beaten by actual LACs for PhD production on a per capita basis. It should be no surprise that the most LAC-like private university tops this list.
When it comes to "grade deflation" (which only means less grade inflation), this is largely due to the mix of majors. Generally more science classes means lower grades. Sorry, but admission to med school shouldn't be handed out like participation trophies.
Anonymous
01/27/2021 16:29
Subject: Re:College Search
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:W&M is notorious for grade deflation.
Proving yet again that it is a school that takes education seriously...
What good does that do to students who can not get into their goal of attending medical school or top-tier graduate school? Yay, you received a top-notch undergrad education but now your grad school experience won't be as good and you won't get as good as grad school experience. Nor will you get into medical school. Oh well - top notch undergrad education!
If your goal is a top-tier graduate program, isn't it more important that your final degree comes from a higher ranked place than the degrees prior to your final degree?
What good does having a top-notch undergrad education do - and one with grade deflation - if you can't get into top-tier graduate programs for your final degree?
William & Mary does not have grade deflation. It has grade inflation, just like all other colleges. If you look at gradeinflation.com, you can see W&M GPAs are actually on the upper range of public universities.
There is a government (NSF) database that tracks U.S. PhDs by undergraduate institution. Of all national public universities, William & Mary is #1 overall on a per capita basis, and #4 for STEM PhDs behind Berkeley and two more specialized schools including the Colorado School of Mines.
Anonymous
01/27/2021 16:13
Subject: Re:College Search
Anonymous wrote:W&M is notorious for grade deflation. Sister and brother-in-law both attended W&M. BIL could not get into med school (any med school) and sister was rejected from top- and mid-tier grad programs. It's been a major issue for years, and the school does not seem to care.
But this is statistically incorrect. If you look at a website called gradeinflation.com, you will see W&M average GPA was 3.33 in the most recent year with data, vs. 3.32 at UVA, 3.23 at UNC, and 3.15 at Virginia Tech. William & Mary is on the high end of average GPA for public universities.
Anonymous
01/27/2021 14:21
Subject: Re:College Search
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:W&M is notorious for grade deflation.
Proving yet again that it is a school that takes education seriously...
What good does that do to students who can not get into their goal of attending medical school or top-tier graduate school? Yay, you received a top-notch undergrad education but now your grad school experience won't be as good and you won't get as good as grad school experience. Nor will you get into medical school. Oh well - top notch undergrad education!
If your goal is a top-tier graduate program, isn't it more important that your final degree comes from a higher ranked place than the degrees prior to your final degree?
What good does having a top-notch undergrad education do - and one with grade deflation - if you can't get into top-tier graduate programs for your final degree?
Where can my W&M level kid go to undergraduate and get really good grades so they get into a top med school?
Alabama. Roll Tide.
I read your response as being sarcastic and putting down of Alabama but why would W&M undergrad -> Alabama Medical School be seen as better than Alabama undergrad -> Johns Hopkins University? Or W&M undergrad -> can't get into medical school so Alabama graduate school in Biology vs Alabama undergrad -> Johns Hopkins University?