Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your mom has borderline personality disorder. She infantilized your sister to keep her dependent on her, to prevent being 'abandoned'. Borderlines have issues with emotional dysregulation and major control issues. If she's ever praised your sister and also treated her like crap, then that's known as 'splitting'. My mom is like your mom in that she would insist on bringing me stuff and doing things for me like cleaning my glasses (she would pull them from my face just like that!) when we met. It's very irritating because I don't want anything from her and so I have chosen to not meet her again. Your mom probably derives a lot of her identity from being your sister's keeper and it's really unhealthy so I agree with the therapist.

I grew up with a borderline mom, schizophrenic grandma and uncle, and narsisstic aunt. Trust me, I know PDs!

+1 This. My MIL and SIL had this exact relationship - and MIL was overly helpful and enabling while also secretly (even to herself) sabotaging her daughter's well-being and ability to be independent and healthy. The only thing that worked for SIL was to make a complete break from the family and find herself a new "family" - I'm not recommending that, but for SIL, that was one of the few options she had to get her life back.

I would call it from a different culture. Sounds to me like your nom did her best to lift this sibling out of a difficult time, and probably just isn’t educated in mental health so thought she was helping by taking care of what she couldn’t handle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it the 2nd type of narcissistic mother?

1st is the type to abandon
2nd is the type to smother as if everything you do is a reflection of them?

Is this the 2nd type of narcissism (obsessive narcissism) you are talking about but vulnerable narcissist seems really close to my sister!

https://www.psychcentral.com/pro/exhausted-woman/2017/07/the-obsessive-narcissist-stopping-the-suffocation#1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulnerable_narcissism

Yes, that looks like it. Close enough!

I think some therapists find it really easy to blame the mom. I’m not saying she didn’t make mistakes. But it is super hard to parent a child with anxiety and depression (and could adhd be at play here too as your sister seem to get overwhelmed and have planning difficulties??). Your dad is depressive—it’s very likely your sister inherited it, and your mother probably saw big flashing signs making her paranoid your sister would end up like your dad. Being smart and graduating magna has nothing to do with it—a kid can have an IQ of 145 but still be emotionally immature.
The parenting supports for SN kids are much better now and there’s a lot of stress on scaffolding skills so that the child can take over. That wasn’t there 20-30 years ago. But it’s still really hard. And it’s hard not to be critical when you see someone you love making huge mistakes when their life. Also really hard not to try to lend them a hand to help them along the way. I’m sorry your sister hasn’t developed the necessary skills, and I’m glad she is seeing someone to help her figure out how to do so. Not sure why it’s necessary at this point to blame your mom or diagnose her.

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it the 2nd type of narcissistic mother?

1st is the type to abandon
2nd is the type to smother as if everything you do is a reflection of them?

Is this the 2nd type of narcissism (obsessive narcissism) you are talking about but vulnerable narcissist seems really close to my sister!

https://www.psychcentral.com/pro/exhausted-woman/2017/07/the-obsessive-narcissist-stopping-the-suffocation#1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulnerable_narcissism

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it the 2nd type of narcissistic mother?

1st is the type to abandon
2nd is the type to smother as if everything you do is a reflection of them?

I can’t find the 2nd type of narcissism you are talking about but vulnerable narcissist seems really close to my sister!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulnerable_narcissism

Sounds like your mom and sister are both codependent. Your sister never fully gained independence, possibly due to her own anxieties. Your mother helped her out. Sister took advantage of it to her own detriment. Mother taking care of her was easier than dealing with the real world. Mother got burnt out on caretaking, probably resents having a dependent daughter. Daughter probably resents mom for making her feel inadequate, and probably has some self loathing about failure to fledge. Has fears that everyone in real world is as critical as her mom is. I think your sister needs to spend more time working on being independent. Ignore what mom says. She can handle a job, or get a significant other. She might succeed more when mom is not around. Appreciate each other but lose the judginess and dependence. Your sister is an adult. She needs to have more self compassion. She should not judge herself for having anxieties. She is not her anxiety. Mom needs to be appreciated for all she does, but it's stressful dealing with an adult who hasn't fully fledged. Sister needs to have clear boundaries and practice assertiveness, but also empathy and appreciation for her mother. Mother needs to stop worrying about daughter and believe she will be okay without her, not rescue her so much, focus on herself.

Isn't it the 2nd type of narcissistic mother?

1st is the type to abandon
2nd is the type to smother as if everything you do is a reflection of them?

Anonymous wrote:This is a lot like my MIL and SIL. They are completely enmeshed, but also don’t always really like each other very much. It’s completely bizarre to me. At the same time my MIL really kept my SIL from becoming a full fledged adult, and she knows it, so they both sort of realize they’re stuck. Again, it’s very weird. My DH was treated completely differently and sometimes I’m struck by how sexist it all was.

My SIL is the same. MIL could live to be 110 (she is pretty old), and SIL would still act like it is a complete shock. When MIL passes, I don't think SIL will be able to function. Enmeshed is an understatement.

Anonymous wrote:
It's a very common situation, OP. The parent assumes extended parenting duties and of course has opinions about everything, which can seem overly critical to the dependent adult.

I hope none of you are faulting your mother. She did a lot for your sister. Letting her sink or swim would probably have been disastrous. Mental illness and disabilities don't magically disappear.

I have a teen with special needs. He needs a lot more support than the average child - more support than his much younger siblings! We try to foster independence and do our best not to be overly critical, but with some behavioral issues, this is very challenging for the caregiver, OP. VERY difficult. Special needs are so impactful to the family's life. There's no win-win, ever.

So please try not to judge too much.

I don’t think my sisters illness was so severe without my parents influence.

She graduated top in her class in high schools, had boyfriends (though they were also codependent), and graduated magma cum laude from college. She had mental capacity to function as an adult, just not the emotional.

She is nearly completely resistant to medicine; only therapy moves the needle on her progress, and that suggests it’s rooted in my parents influence.

I haven’t spoke of my dad, b/c he and my sister had little interaction b/c he was a depressive alcoholic who never held a job while we were alive and slept to noon each day, then started drinking. He ran the household cleaning and cooking, but other than that just watched a lot of tv. I had assumed my sister inherited his traits until therapist pointed out the problems in my mothers interaction as well.

Thanks for book recommendation, will check it out. Fear of abandonment BPD could be a good fit; she doesn’t get angry but definitely can
Have sour moods. My entire maternal line is full of sour grouchy women, some must be some generic components.

It's a very common situation, OP. The parent assumes extended parenting duties and of course has opinions about everything, which can seem overly critical to the dependent adult.

I hope none of you are faulting your mother. She did a lot for your sister. Letting her sink or swim would probably have been disastrous. Mental illness and disabilities don't magically disappear.

I have a teen with special needs. He needs a lot more support than the average child - more support than his much younger siblings! We try to foster independence and do our best not to be overly critical, but with some behavioral issues, this is very challenging for the caregiver, OP. VERY difficult. Special needs are so impactful to the family's life. There's no win-win, ever.

So please try not to judge too much.

OP, I think your mom has borderline personality disorder. She infantilized your sister to keep her dependent on her, to prevent being 'abandoned'. Borderlines have issues with emotional dysregulation and major control issues. If she's ever praised your sister and also treated her like crap, then that's known as 'splitting'. My mom is like your mom in that she would insist on bringing me stuff and doing things for me like cleaning my glasses (she would pull them from my face just like that!) when we met. It's very irritating because I don't want anything from her and so I have chosen to not meet her again. Your mom probably derives a lot of her identity from being your sister's keeper and it's really unhealthy so I agree with the therapist.

I grew up with a borderline mom, schizophrenic grandma and uncle, and narsisstic aunt. Trust me, I know PDs!