Anonymous
12/22/2020 11:05
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
Anonymous wrote:Anyway this is what it means to really do the work of understanding the biases and racism within our country.
Yes you were able to buy a home in a neighborhood you desired that is now desirable.
However, for decades when working class black families lived in those neighborhoods they were not desirable. Resources were not provided, retailers would not service there, schools were allowed to decline and city services were not provided. Home values naturally plummeted devaluing the worth of those homes.
Decades later some plucky and entreprenuerial white people decided "hey I don't want to live in the burbs. i want to live in the hood."
They convince Sally and Mike to move there. They buy homes for dirt cheap from the original owners whose home values were depressed, bc in general black neighborhood home vales are in America.
More white ppl buy cheap homes. More companies start to take notice. They move in. Home values skyrocket! The original homeowners now cannot afford to live where they did due to rising taxes, maybe unscrupulous developers etc. Bc of course there are very few safety nets in our country.
Sally and Mike eventually sell their home and make a 400% profit and move to the lily white [and a sprinkle of Asian] enclave of "North" Arlington.
----I know many people who have done this.
So are Sally and Mike unethical in your story?
Most people understand/agree with the macro connotations of tax policy / historically racist laws / etc. But the question is, as individuals — are Mike and Sally not allowed to ever move to black neighborhoods? Should they have stayed in the lily white suburbs the whole time?
Anonymous
12/22/2020 11:04
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
Anonymous wrote:I recently bought a place in Columbia Heights and multiple liberal friends of mine have called me a gentrifier.
I don’t understand why buying the best house we could afford is somehow unethical. Should we look at white only neighborhoods? I mean, truly, what are people proposing? Even if we wanted to self segregate (we don’t), we couldn’t afford those super white parts of DC.
I truly don’t understand... what are these anti gentrification people suggesting homebuyers do? By the way, it is ONLY our White friends who care. None of our POC friends have said anything negative at all.
The loss of the culture of a neighborhood.
Taking advantage of government and business policies that favor wealthy whites over other groups.
BTW, one of my adult kids had an opportunity to gentrify a poor white neighborhood. It’s not just p.o.c. experiencing this.
Anonymous
12/22/2020 11:03
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
My old town in early 1990s literally had one last crappy block. I knew a guy who started buying in block and over 20 years bought, rented to worse tenants and let houses run down to get while block. Then he kicked all the tenants out and gentrified it
Anonymous
12/22/2020 10:59
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
Anyway this is what it means to really do the work of understanding the biases and racism within our country.
Yes you were able to buy a home in a neighborhood you desired that is now desirable.
However, for decades when working class black families lived in those neighborhoods they were not desirable. Resources were not provided, retailers would not service there, schools were allowed to decline and city services were not provided. Home values naturally plummeted devaluing the worth of those homes.
Decades later some plucky and entreprenuerial white people decided "hey I don't want to live in the burbs. i want to live in the hood."
They convince Sally and Mike to move there. They buy homes for dirt cheap from the original owners whose home values were depressed, bc in general black neighborhood home vales are in America.
More white ppl buy cheap homes. More companies start to take notice. They move in. Home values skyrocket! The original homeowners now cannot afford to live where they did due to rising taxes, maybe unscrupulous developers etc. Bc of course there are very few safety nets in our country.
Sally and Mike eventually sell their home and make a 400% profit and move to the lily white [and a sprinkle of Asian] enclave of "North" Arlington.
----I know many people who have done this.
Yes you were able to buy a home in a neighborhood you desired that is now desirable.
However, for decades when working class black families lived in those neighborhoods they were not desirable. Resources were not provided, retailers would not service there, schools were allowed to decline and city services were not provided. Home values naturally plummeted devaluing the worth of those homes.
Decades later some plucky and entreprenuerial white people decided "hey I don't want to live in the burbs. i want to live in the hood."
They convince Sally and Mike to move there. They buy homes for dirt cheap from the original owners whose home values were depressed, bc in general black neighborhood home vales are in America.
More white ppl buy cheap homes. More companies start to take notice. They move in. Home values skyrocket! The original homeowners now cannot afford to live where they did due to rising taxes, maybe unscrupulous developers etc. Bc of course there are very few safety nets in our country.
Sally and Mike eventually sell their home and make a 400% profit and move to the lily white [and a sprinkle of Asian] enclave of "North" Arlington.
----I know many people who have done this.
Anonymous
12/22/2020 10:57
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, people said rude stuff to us when we bought a starter house *gasp* a few miles outside the beltway (we work in the suburbs so it’s not even like we were commuting to DC). We got snarky comments about wanting the space of a house and not just staying in a small rental condo to be close to everything.
Fast forward 8 years and we made a bunch of money off that starter house while our friends were busy renting in DC/Arlington. Now we were able to buy a house in N Arlington thanks to our profits and in the meantime our friends who were renting got priced out of close-in neighborhoods and ended up *gasp* outside the beltway where they made fun of us for living.
FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with those neighborhoods where they moved. But it does irritate me a bit that when we lived just beyond 495 it was the “end of the world” and now that they live there they talk about how great it is.
My point being, focus on you. Any commentary from others is a reflection of their own issues as a PP pointed out.
People are always going to judge, regardless. I would absolutely judge anyone who used the phrase starter home as materialistic and wasteful, regardless of where they chose to live. We bought in a less desirable part of DC 20 years ago and have certainly reaped financial benefits for doing so. But urban living, even in a SFH with a large backyard has pluses and minuses, I would never live in Virginia, but Annapolis sounds nice. I wouldn't have said than 20 years ago, but as you get older, you do want more nature around you to decompress.
This is a little unfair. We can't afford much around here, so we're in a TH with a weird floor plan a looooong way from DC. I don't refer to it as my "starter home" around others, but I kind of think of it that way, since I do still daydream about a larger yard, off street parking and maybe even a garage for bikes and the mower and trash cans, a fireplace, a family room so that when my oldest doesnt want to share his bedroom anymore we won't lose our multipurpose guest/tv/family room...etc. I don't think it's THAT materialistic and wasteful to hope to someday move out of the first house you buy.
Anonymous
12/22/2020 10:55
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:First off, if you bought a place in Columbia Heights in 2020, you aren't exactly on the leading edge of gentrification.
But more importantly, you're right. What do your friends say when you make these points to them?
Yes, totally, we are hardly at the bleeding edge of gentrification. But even if we bought somewhere, say, East of the River, I still wouldn’t see an issue with it. I understand the issue when new people move in and start calling the cops on all their neighbors and don’t care to meet them, but we of course won’t do any of that. We’re looking forward to getting to know all our neighbors.
One friend suggested I should have moved to a rural white community that I could afford, and then I wouldn’t be displacing anyone. Another friend paid twice what I did (with help of course) to limit herself to WOTP neighborhoods, which apparently is somehow more ethical. Baffling.
Your friends are quite rude to be saying this crap to you. But I guess it's better than saying it behind your back? You need new friends.
I don’t think they meant to be rude. It’s stuff that people always talk about in theory from being in activist circles, and we’re just now at the age that people are starting to buy homes (30’s), and haven’t fully thought through what it means to say this to an actual individual and not on Twitter.
I don’t break friendships because of political opinions, even when they are clearly dumb. But I definitely rolled my eyes at this one and I’m trying to think through what solution people who think that are even driving towards. Some other comments in the thread (don’t call the city on your elderly neighbors, send your kids to local schools) are already far more thoughtful.
Anonymous
12/22/2020 10:51
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
Anonymous wrote:It is unethical. Here is a good example. My mother in law bought a house on a working class block near a junk yard and a factory in 1968. Very long walk to train like over one mile, small plots like 40/100 and were cheap little crappy “telephone” capes. Back when phones and electric were invented they built little shacks for workers.
Flash forward to 2021 and 100 percent of grandkids can’t afford anywhere near her and nearly all moved out of state. Her kids are near retirement and most are being forced to retire elsewhere.
Her block is full of renters, investors. No. English speakers. Home prices have risen so much property taxes are through the roof!! Neighbors now are doing multigenerational. To afford and cars and noise everywhere can’t park in print of house.
Her taxes will soon be $12,000 a year on a 1,400 square foot house. Every time neighbors flip homes it raises her assessed value. The German butcher. Italian, bakery, Greek diner, shoemakers and dry cleaners all forced out due to high rent
My MiL could care less about home values. But on a fixed income paying $1,000 a month tax is crazy
My grand mother lives in Sausalito, I can't afford to live near her either. Not being able to live near grandparents is not a great tragedy on its own
Anonymous
12/22/2020 10:50
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
Anonymous wrote:There's no solution.
White people leave = white flight = racism
White people move in = gentrification = racism
White people stay in their enclaves = segregation = racism
Basically, don't live anywhere because it is racist.
awww poor white people buying 600k+ homes
Anonymous
12/22/2020 10:50
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
Anonymous wrote:OP, people said rude stuff to us when we bought a starter house *gasp* a few miles outside the beltway (we work in the suburbs so it’s not even like we were commuting to DC). We got snarky comments about wanting the space of a house and not just staying in a small rental condo to be close to everything.
Fast forward 8 years and we made a bunch of money off that starter house while our friends were busy renting in DC/Arlington. Now we were able to buy a house in N Arlington thanks to our profits and in the meantime our friends who were renting got priced out of close-in neighborhoods and ended up *gasp* outside the beltway where they made fun of us for living.
FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with those neighborhoods where they moved. But it does irritate me a bit that when we lived just beyond 495 it was the “end of the world” and now that they live there they talk about how great it is.
My point being, focus on you. Any commentary from others is a reflection of their own issues as a PP pointed out.
People are always going to judge, regardless. I would absolutely judge anyone who used the phrase starter home as materialistic and wasteful, regardless of where they chose to live. We bought in a less desirable part of DC 20 years ago and have certainly reaped financial benefits for doing so. But urban living, even in a SFH with a large backyard has pluses and minuses, I would never live in Virginia, but Annapolis sounds nice. I wouldn't have said than 20 years ago, but as you get older, you do want more nature around you to decompress.
Anonymous
12/22/2020 10:49
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:First off, if you bought a place in Columbia Heights in 2020, you aren't exactly on the leading edge of gentrification.
But more importantly, you're right. What do your friends say when you make these points to them?
Yes, totally, we are hardly at the bleeding edge of gentrification. But even if we bought somewhere, say, East of the River, I still wouldn’t see an issue with it. I understand the issue when new people move in and start calling the cops on all their neighbors and don’t care to meet them, but we of course won’t do any of that. We’re looking forward to getting to know all our neighbors.
One friend suggested I should have moved to a rural white community that I could afford, and then I wouldn’t be displacing anyone. Another friend paid twice what I did (with help of course) to limit herself to WOTP neighborhoods, which apparently is somehow more ethical. Baffling.
Okay, OP is a troll. These conversations didn't happen.
Agreed. Not even a good troll thread to end 2020.
It did! Obviously not verbatim, but those were their responses in summary. Not a troll. But I guess why am I replying, you still won’t believe me.
Anonymous
12/22/2020 10:47
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
Anonymous wrote:It is unethical. Here is a good example. My mother in law bought a house on a working class block near a junk yard and a factory in 1968. Very long walk to train like over one mile, small plots like 40/100 and were cheap little crappy “telephone” capes. Back when phones and electric were invented they built little shacks for workers.
Flash forward to 2021 and 100 percent of grandkids can’t afford anywhere near her and nearly all moved out of state. Her kids are near retirement and most are being forced to retire elsewhere.
Her block is full of renters, investors. No. English speakers. Home prices have risen so much property taxes are through the roof!! Neighbors now are doing multigenerational. To afford and cars and noise everywhere can’t park in print of house.
Her taxes will soon be $12,000 a year on a 1,400 square foot house. Every time neighbors flip homes it raises her assessed value. The German butcher. Italian, bakery, Greek diner, shoemakers and dry cleaners all forced out due to high rent
My MiL could care less about home values. But on a fixed income paying $1,000 a month tax is crazy
I see the argument about investors exacerbating the issue and being unethical.
I don’t really see how people buying a primary residence and living in it is unethical.
Her grandkids can’t afford to live by her ... but her new neighbors (not the investors) are probably someone’s grandkids who also can’t afford their childhood neighborhoods.
The issue is the tax policy that increases her burden so much, and benefits investors buying multiple properties. Not individuals just trying to find a place to live.
Anonymous
12/22/2020 10:47
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:First off, if you bought a place in Columbia Heights in 2020, you aren't exactly on the leading edge of gentrification.
But more importantly, you're right. What do your friends say when you make these points to them?
Yes, totally, we are hardly at the bleeding edge of gentrification. But even if we bought somewhere, say, East of the River, I still wouldn’t see an issue with it. I understand the issue when new people move in and start calling the cops on all their neighbors and don’t care to meet them, but we of course won’t do any of that. We’re looking forward to getting to know all our neighbors.
One friend suggested I should have moved to a rural white community that I could afford, and then I wouldn’t be displacing anyone. Another friend paid twice what I did (with help of course) to limit herself to WOTP neighborhoods, which apparently is somehow more ethical. Baffling.
Okay, OP is a troll. These conversations didn't happen.
Agreed. Not even a good troll thread to end 2020.
Anonymous
12/22/2020 10:41
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
OP, people said rude stuff to us when we bought a starter house *gasp* a few miles outside the beltway (we work in the suburbs so it’s not even like we were commuting to DC). We got snarky comments about wanting the space of a house and not just staying in a small rental condo to be close to everything.
Fast forward 8 years and we made a bunch of money off that starter house while our friends were busy renting in DC/Arlington. Now we were able to buy a house in N Arlington thanks to our profits and in the meantime our friends who were renting got priced out of close-in neighborhoods and ended up *gasp* outside the beltway where they made fun of us for living.
FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with those neighborhoods where they moved. But it does irritate me a bit that when we lived just beyond 495 it was the “end of the world” and now that they live there they talk about how great it is.
My point being, focus on you. Any commentary from others is a reflection of their own issues as a PP pointed out.
Fast forward 8 years and we made a bunch of money off that starter house while our friends were busy renting in DC/Arlington. Now we were able to buy a house in N Arlington thanks to our profits and in the meantime our friends who were renting got priced out of close-in neighborhoods and ended up *gasp* outside the beltway where they made fun of us for living.
FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with those neighborhoods where they moved. But it does irritate me a bit that when we lived just beyond 495 it was the “end of the world” and now that they live there they talk about how great it is.
My point being, focus on you. Any commentary from others is a reflection of their own issues as a PP pointed out.
Anonymous
12/22/2020 10:34
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
There's no solution.
White people leave = white flight = racism
White people move in = gentrification = racism
White people stay in their enclaves = segregation = racism
Basically, don't live anywhere because it is racist.
White people leave = white flight = racism
White people move in = gentrification = racism
White people stay in their enclaves = segregation = racism
Basically, don't live anywhere because it is racist.
Anonymous
12/22/2020 10:34
Subject: Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.
It is unethical. Here is a good example. My mother in law bought a house on a working class block near a junk yard and a factory in 1968. Very long walk to train like over one mile, small plots like 40/100 and were cheap little crappy “telephone” capes. Back when phones and electric were invented they built little shacks for workers.
Flash forward to 2021 and 100 percent of grandkids can’t afford anywhere near her and nearly all moved out of state. Her kids are near retirement and most are being forced to retire elsewhere.
Her block is full of renters, investors. No. English speakers. Home prices have risen so much property taxes are through the roof!! Neighbors now are doing multigenerational. To afford and cars and noise everywhere can’t park in print of house.
Her taxes will soon be $12,000 a year on a 1,400 square foot house. Every time neighbors flip homes it raises her assessed value. The German butcher. Italian, bakery, Greek diner, shoemakers and dry cleaners all forced out due to high rent
My MiL could care less about home values. But on a fixed income paying $1,000 a month tax is crazy
Flash forward to 2021 and 100 percent of grandkids can’t afford anywhere near her and nearly all moved out of state. Her kids are near retirement and most are being forced to retire elsewhere.
Her block is full of renters, investors. No. English speakers. Home prices have risen so much property taxes are through the roof!! Neighbors now are doing multigenerational. To afford and cars and noise everywhere can’t park in print of house.
Her taxes will soon be $12,000 a year on a 1,400 square foot house. Every time neighbors flip homes it raises her assessed value. The German butcher. Italian, bakery, Greek diner, shoemakers and dry cleaners all forced out due to high rent
My MiL could care less about home values. But on a fixed income paying $1,000 a month tax is crazy