Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 12:43     Subject: Re:At what point do you call it quits?
Get him assessed for ADHD.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 12:25     Subject: Re:At what point do you call it quits?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, I feel for you. He may not have been taught how to pull his own weight as a kid, so in this case you need to start back from square one.


Make a chore chart, which clearly outlines your tasks, and his tasks. If your kids are old enough, maybe even have them help you with something. If he doesn't get his tasks done, then he has to pay to hire someone to do them. If he doesn't get one of his tasks done that could easily be done by you, he has to pay you for you to do it. That should get him to do the tasks.


As well as doing this, also withhold privileges that relate to the tasks. Ex.

DH: I wanna go play outside with the kids.

OP: That sounds great, the kids would love it. Please mow the lawn first - so you and the kids don't get ticks (and so that we don't get an HOA fine) *Kiss on cheek walk away*


Or:

DH: Time to go to our fancy dinner!

OP: We can't leave the house with it looking like this, CPS would take our children away. Please [b]you can do your part with house chores now, while I handle my responsibilities with the kids now, and then we can all get it done today, so that we can go and enjoy dinner tomorrow. *Kiss on cheek walk away*[/b]

Hopefully this helps!


+1 with edits. The prior suggestion had a lot of nagging, even though it was true. You are articulating the same point with revisions above, but lower the risk of defensiveness. Otherwise he can respond to I didnt mow the lawn because... I wasnt able to help because... that is stupid and a waste of time. You know what you're dealing with. Cut to the chase and be pleasant and move on with what you have as a priority. Do not take control, he has to walk himself, just like a baby learns there were be staggers and tumbles but he will get there.



PP. I like your edits better than my original post. Thanks!
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 11:59     Subject: At what point do you call it quits?
Anonymous wrote:I have two children that are not yet school age. Although my husband and I both work full time, he rarely helps out with household chores (dishes, laundry, trash, etc.), even when I ask. He doesn’t set his alarm in the mornings, so if I don't wake him up myself, which takes a good half an hour that we don't have time for, I’m always the one to wake the kids up and get them ready for daycare. I feed the kids at night, I put them to bed, I make sure they have everything they need. All these things together make me feel like I am pulling all the weight of keeping the household running, and I am just so, so tired. My husband is also always raising his voice and gets irritated at the drop of a hat, which stresses the kids and I out. I feel like I walk on eggshells around him most times. We have seen a counselor for these things, but nothing has changed. I have tried everything in the book and all of his suggestions on how to “get him to help,” but nothing works. It’s getting to the point where I feel just exhausted and everything is half done because I can’t accomplish everything alone. Household maintenance (yardwork, fixing things around the house) falls by the wayside, and I am constantly cleaning up after everyone…in short, I can’t do it anymore.

But is divorce the answer? My husband is emotionally available, very loyal, and I love my in-laws, but if I’m going to be doing all the work myself anyway, what is the point of staying with him? He’s just…well, lazy. And constantly cranky. If I divorce him now, we live in an area where his family is all nearby, whereas my own family is on the opposite side of the country. I would have no support whatsoever if I were here alone, which I know would end up being the case considering no divorce court is going to allow me to move my children an unreasonable distance away from their father, who will want to see them regularly. I would be isolated (I have no friends here; we live here because his job is here) and lonely, but I feel like it is getting to the point where I can’t take staying with him any longer. I'm so torn, even with everything I've said.

I know in all honesty that no one can figure this out for me, but I’m just so lost. Any thoughts, suggestions, or divorce lawyer recommendations welcome.


At this point.

Time for a trial separation, at least.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 11:49     Subject: At what point do you call it quits?
Anonymous wrote:You call it quits when you have thought through everything and made your plan for finances, work, and how you will do everything as a single parent.

It sounds like time for you to take a hard line with your DH. Offer him the opportunity to do online counseling and tell him you are no longer willing to carry everything. Then stop carrying it. Stop waking him up. Stop doing anything for him. Stop doing things that are important to him and not you. Cut things out of your life to make it simpler, and start hiring things out. Basically live like a single person with kids because that is your plan in the long run.


This is basically my answer.

And I'd go one step further - I'd tell him that you need him to take care of dinner twice a week and mornings twice a week. Ask him what days he wants and then literally do not do anything to "help." Make him figure it out. He will probably be furious when he oversleeps and the kids are crying and hungry, but this fight is worth it.

Your husband and situation sounds a lot like mine - with the irritation and walking on eggshells, but loyal and great in-laws. One reason I am still married is that financially it would be very hard to be a single mom and keep my kids in their schools. I do have an apartment picked out, however.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 11:46     Subject: At what point do you call it quits?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The point of staying with him is that the children get time with their parents and no stepfamily issues, and your combined income supports one household instead of two. Whether that is better or worse from your perspective is up to you, but the reasons are very real.

You will have to do everything in your home if you divorce and he probably won't do any better with parenting admin tasks, btw, so it will be all on you either way.


My ex did nothing to help with our son before we split.

He never helped afterward either, BUT - I also only had one child to take care of. Not a child plus a man-child to care for. It makes a HUGE difference. Plus, during his visitation (which was not even close to 50/50 - his choice) I was alone. Totally, completely, alone in my house with no one harassing me. It was like a court ordered vacation from my parenting responsibilities.

It's very very different to be in a marriage where you carry the entire parenting load, and to be single and carry the load.


YES. To all of this. My case was very similar to yours and the other PP who established a healthy relationship post-divorce too. I can better manage 100% what I was doing before, I have breaks I never had as a parent before, and the relationship I have with my SO is a beautiful role model for my child. The only reason I left is because the marriage I was in before, was not it. They were pretty veneers over rotting teeth.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 11:41     Subject: At what point do you call it quits?
Anonymous wrote:The point of staying with him is that the children get time with their parents and no stepfamily issues, and your combined income supports one household instead of two. Whether that is better or worse from your perspective is up to you, but the reasons are very real.

You will have to do everything in your home if you divorce and he probably won't do any better with parenting admin tasks, btw, so it will be all on you either way.


My ex did nothing to help with our son before we split.

He never helped afterward either, BUT - I also only had one child to take care of. Not a child plus a man-child to care for. It makes a HUGE difference. Plus, during his visitation (which was not even close to 50/50 - his choice) I was alone. Totally, completely, alone in my house with no one harassing me. It was like a court ordered vacation from my parenting responsibilities.

It's very very different to be in a marriage where you carry the entire parenting load, and to be single and carry the load.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 11:40     Subject: At what point do you call it quits?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This does not sound divorce worthy. Many, many women deal with this. Yes, it sucks. I know. I did everything until my oldest went to kindergarten and youngest was potty trained.

I am divorced. But this is not why. I could have dealt with this.

You wrote: "emotionally available, very loyal, and I love my in-laws"--that is a reason to stay married right there. And if you actually love him--don't divorce--this phase will pass.

For the record, I am glad I got divorced. But I was in a completely loveless and miserable marriage and I doubted getting married in the first place. It is a completely difference scenario. A guy leaving it all to women happens all the time...but I don't see that as a reason to divorce if the other elements are there. Mine weren't.

I so disagree with this statement. Only two of those things really matter, and neither of them is enough to sustain a marriage on their own.


+1. Agree, and I am also one who divorced, though not for this sole reason as thread OP. The above PP is probably valuing that bolded characteristic differently based on her personal experience. To be fair, we all do that. We all have different terms and means of tolerance in how we can live our life and build our family with a person who was a stranger before.

To me - Larger takeaway is that OP has to truly take all things into perspective. If you can get through a few crappy years during the worst year in the history of time (2020), and this is a behavior that is fixable - don't quit just yet. If there are other elements stacking up against the husband, well. Too bad for him.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 11:37     Subject: At what point do you call it quits?
The most common DCUM solution is throw money at the problem. I’m your case, not a bad idea. House cleaners weekly or bimonthly, mothers helper in the evening, and/or au pair. You can get more help for you if you want to stay married and can afford it.

I was on your scenario and divorced. I couldn’t see the loving part of exH, because I lost all respect for him and his inability to be a functioning adult and parent. I am much happier divorced. We split custody 50/50, so he is now forced to parent his children and I have some time to myself. We downscaled housing at first and we both financially support the kids, so I didn’t feel much of a financial hit in my standard of living. I’m now remarried to a man who didn’t have kids, so we’re actually better off financially than when I was married to exH. I wouldn’t let fear of the unknown keep you in the marriage. Individual counseling may be able to help you sort out your feelings and set a path for a better future for you.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 11:35     Subject: Re:At what point do you call it quits?
Anonymous wrote:OP, I feel for you. He may not have been taught how to pull his own weight as a kid, so in this case you need to start back from square one.


Make a chore chart, which clearly outlines your tasks, and his tasks. If your kids are old enough, maybe even have them help you with something. If he doesn't get his tasks done, then he has to pay to hire someone to do them. If he doesn't get one of his tasks done that could easily be done by you, he has to pay you for you to do it. That should get him to do the tasks.


As well as doing this, also withhold privileges that relate to the tasks. Ex.

DH: I wanna go play outside with the kids.

OP: That sounds great, the kids would love it. Please mow the lawn first - so you and the kids don't get ticks (and so that we don't get an HOA fine) *Kiss on cheek walk away*


Or:

DH: Time to go to our fancy dinner!

OP: We can't leave the house with it looking like this, CPS would take our children away. Please [b]you can do your part with house chores now, while I handle my responsibilities with the kids now, and then we can all get it done today, so that we can go and enjoy dinner tomorrow. *Kiss on cheek walk away*[/b]

Hopefully this helps!


+1 with edits. The prior suggestion had a lot of nagging, even though it was true. You are articulating the same point with revisions above, but lower the risk of defensiveness. Otherwise he can respond to I didnt mow the lawn because... I wasnt able to help because... that is stupid and a waste of time. You know what you're dealing with. Cut to the chase and be pleasant and move on with what you have as a priority. Do not take control, he has to walk himself, just like a baby learns there were be staggers and tumbles but he will get there.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 11:34     Subject: At what point do you call it quits?
Anonymous wrote:This does not sound divorce worthy. Many, many women deal with this. Yes, it sucks. I know. I did everything until my oldest went to kindergarten and youngest was potty trained.

I am divorced. But this is not why. I could have dealt with this.

You wrote: "emotionally available, very loyal, and I love my in-laws"--that is a reason to stay married right there. And if you actually love him--don't divorce--this phase will pass.

For the record, I am glad I got divorced. But I was in a completely loveless and miserable marriage and I doubted getting married in the first place. It is a completely difference scenario. A guy leaving it all to women happens all the time...but I don't see that as a reason to divorce if the other elements are there. Mine weren't.

I so disagree with this statement. Only two of those things really matter, and neither of them is enough to sustain a marriage on their own.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 11:32     Subject: Re:At what point do you call it quits?
Anonymous wrote:OP, I feel for you. He may not have been taught how to pull his own weight as a kid, so in this case you need to start back from square one.


Make a chore chart, which clearly outlines your tasks, and his tasks. If your kids are old enough, maybe even have them help you with something. If he doesn't get his tasks done, then he has to pay to hire someone to do them. If he doesn't get one of his tasks done that could easily be done by you, he has to pay you for you to do it. That should get him to do the tasks.


As well as doing this, also withhold privledges that relate to the tasks. Ex.

DH: I wanna go play outside with the kids.

OP: Well, because you didn't mow, you can't play out there because you could get ticks. But, if you do it now, after you and the kids are done you can go outside.


Or:

DH: Time to go to our fancy dinner!
OP: Well, you didn't help me clean up the house today, so the house is a mess. We can't leave the house with it looking like this. But, if you help me do it now, then we can go tommorrow.


Hopefully this helps!


I don't mean to be unkind, but this is just having a third child. There is no reason on earth that anyone should have to engage in this sort of ridiculousness with their spouse.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 11:32     Subject: At what point do you call it quits?
If he's emotionally available you should be able to go to him and tell him what you've told us. You can't do this anymore, you're considering divorce, and if he is unable to step up and be an active and productive member of the household you want to separate. I'd also insist he seek therapy (on his own); I think the constant irritation and you walking around on eggshells are a red flag, that's not normal. Oh, and tell him starting immediately you will no longer wake him up. And don't cave on that, let him oversleep if need be.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 11:31     Subject: At what point do you call it quits?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And definitely stop waking him up. Tell him you’re not doing it anymore and then don’t do it.


This. You will get better results if you follow through on your boundaries. He probably perceives you as not serious and just fussing at him because you don't follow through.

How is it that he is emotionally available yet counseling has failed and he DGAF about being fair to you?


This. Also, stop doing things that are not necessary. Men often have very different ideas about what is necessary and what is merely a leisure activity, and then are perplexed and annoyed when their wife burns herself out doing unnecessary things and gets upset about it. Take a very hard look at everything you do, and see if you can eliminate it or dial it back. Holiday stuff is a great example. Don't decorate as much and send out your card late. Because it really doesn't matter! Cut back kid activities, food that is fancier than needed, and question which of your family obligations are real and which are self-imposed and nobody but you actually cares about. Get rid of all that stuff and you will have more time.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 11:27     Subject: At what point do you call it quits?
Anonymous wrote:you are enabling him. set boundaries and things will change don't move your boundaries and don't enable.


+1. Also OP you will have to deal with the discomfort of not having control, which subsequently means you will not take responsibility for things that fall to the wayside, and impact all of you. If there is a way to outsource what you can, do it. It is cheaper than a divorce. For now.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2020 11:25     Subject: At what point do you call it quits?
This does not sound divorce worthy. Many, many women deal with this. Yes, it sucks. I know. I did everything until my oldest went to kindergarten and youngest was potty trained.

I am divorced. But this is not why. I could have dealt with this.

You wrote: "emotionally available, very loyal, and I love my in-laws"--that is a reason to stay married right there. And if you actually love him--don't divorce--this phase will pass.

For the record, I am glad I got divorced. But I was in a completely loveless and miserable marriage and I doubted getting married in the first place. It is a completely difference scenario. A guy leaving it all to women happens all the time...but I don't see that as a reason to divorce if the other elements are there. Mine weren't.