Anonymous
11/30/2020 19:02
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:My boundary at the moment is only phone calls on Sunday. If she picks up, I will talk for 10-30 minutes. If she picks up and tell me to call later, I will not. If she texts me, I will not reply. I will call next Sunday. And then I will have 6 days off.
Those 10-30 minutes are excruciating.
I’ve been there. Wish I had cut ties earlier.
Anonymous
11/30/2020 18:58
Subject: Re:How to handle narcissist mother?
Jane Goodall poster here.
I think a lot of this can depend on the specific personality of your parent. I understand why some people go no contact or use the grey rock method. But for instance, with my mom, that would never work. She's not a true narcissist, though she has a lot of narcissistic behaviors. But she is deeply insecure and attempting to go NC or using grey rock will just intensify her efforts to manipulate and control. She will become frantic, calling 10 times a day and involving other family members in trying to force me to engage. I am simply not ready to truly never speak to my mother again, especially because she is old.
So for me, I use a variety of things to "handle" the relationship. Physical distance has been very useful, as it's kind of like grey rock without the work, because being physically far away has helped my mom, over time, find other outlets for her behavior (unfortunately sometimes other people, but I can't be in charge of them). And then detachment helps me with the rest. It works for me, but I can see how it might not work for everyone.
I think a lot of this can depend on the specific personality of your parent. I understand why some people go no contact or use the grey rock method. But for instance, with my mom, that would never work. She's not a true narcissist, though she has a lot of narcissistic behaviors. But she is deeply insecure and attempting to go NC or using grey rock will just intensify her efforts to manipulate and control. She will become frantic, calling 10 times a day and involving other family members in trying to force me to engage. I am simply not ready to truly never speak to my mother again, especially because she is old.
So for me, I use a variety of things to "handle" the relationship. Physical distance has been very useful, as it's kind of like grey rock without the work, because being physically far away has helped my mom, over time, find other outlets for her behavior (unfortunately sometimes other people, but I can't be in charge of them). And then detachment helps me with the rest. It works for me, but I can see how it might not work for everyone.
Anonymous
11/30/2020 18:45
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
I'm down to basically 95% no contact with my parents due to my narcissistic mother and enabling dad . It is painful and hard to wish things were different - but not nearly as hard as trying to successfully navigate our relationship. I feel grateful that I (somehow) ended up in a loving marriage, with kids I truly enjoy and have a close relationship with my sister (we were constantly pitted against one another). I am much happier this way.
Anonymous
11/30/2020 18:26
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
My boundary at the moment is only phone calls on Sunday. If she picks up, I will talk for 10-30 minutes. If she picks up and tell me to call later, I will not. If she texts me, I will not reply. I will call next Sunday. And then I will have 6 days off.
Those 10-30 minutes are excruciating.
Those 10-30 minutes are excruciating.
Anonymous
11/30/2020 18:23
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:One does not handle a narcissist.
So true. Since my mother will never stop trying to gaslight me and will never truly hear/listen to me I just had to drop contact.
This is very true. I was interested to see what the responses would be. I find if you try not to react, you are still left with the mental gymnastics of dealing with what was said or done. If you speak up for yourself evenly calmly it is still thrown back on you, you can see the delight in them that they got a reaction from you and then you still need to go deal with the mental gymnastics of that.
I have dropped contact as well at the moment because I am at a loss on how to handle it. They won't change and it seems the only thing is you learn to put up with it and deal with it or you drop contact. I have found that trying to deal with it is exhausting, it's too exhausting.
Anonymous
11/30/2020 18:20
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:You all, like many people, are dx'ing people as having NPD (is she clinically diagnosed?) when really they are just a$$holes.
They're socially maladjusted a-holes, who happen to also be parents, about 99.9% of the time. True NPD is quite rare, and requires the diagnosis of a professional. It might make you feel better to think they are mentally ill according to the DSM, because, maybe, it lets you off the hook for naming your parent what they are.
I agree people too often default to saying "Oh this person is NPD or BPD" without any clinical evidence. I think you have to be careful with labels that are really only meant for people who are professionally diagnosed.
However, a label like narcissism is incredibly useful if you have a loved one with these behaviors. Especially with parents, we often make lots of excuses for what you would refer to as "a-hole" behavior because of years of conditioning as children. Finally being able to identify behaviors like this as narcissism, or even narcissistic tendencies or selfishness, can signal a breakthrough for people who have struggled with the fallout from having selfish, emotionally immature parents. It can finally shift their focus from thinking, "What is wrong with me that nothing I ever do can satisfy or please my parent" to "Ok, this is how my parent behaves -- now what can I do to keep that behavior from impacting me in harmful ways in the future." Or even just realizing "Oh, this is why I struggle so much with specific triggers."
If you google "how to deal with a-hole parent", you may or may not discover useful information. But if you goodle "how to deal with narcissist parent" you will almost definitely come across information that can help you. That's why these labels are useful, even if they are not always being applied in a clinically appropriate way.
Anonymous
11/30/2020 18:09
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:I am still laughing at the mental image of me visiting my crazy mother wearing binoculars, a button down shirt and khakis as I narrate...mother ape is now pounding her chest, prancing about and yelling in ape language "Why can't you be more like Sheila from the ape family nextdoor. Sheila visits her mother all the time. Sheila always looks pretty. Sheila is so thin."
Narrator: mama ape is getting an angry look on her face while her daughter does not look at all upset. Her daughter uttered some noises that can be translated into "Sheila sounds great mom. I am going to need to go to the grocery store soon and get more bananas for the family." Oh wait....Mama ape is pounding her chest again.
😆
Anonymous
11/30/2020 18:08
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:One does not handle a narcissist.
So true. Since my mother will never stop trying to gaslight me and will never truly hear/listen to me I just had to drop contact.
+1
Anonymous
11/30/2020 17:48
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
I am still laughing at the mental image of me visiting my crazy mother wearing binoculars, a button down shirt and khakis as I narrate...mother ape is now pounding her chest, prancing about and yelling in ape language "Why can't you be more like Sheila from the ape family nextdoor. Sheila visits her mother all the time. Sheila always looks pretty. Sheila is so thin."
Narrator: mama ape is getting an angry look on her face while her daughter does not look at all upset. Her daughter uttered some noises that can be translated into "Sheila sounds great mom. I am going to need to go to the grocery store soon and get more bananas for the family." Oh wait....Mama ape is pounding her chest again.
Narrator: mama ape is getting an angry look on her face while her daughter does not look at all upset. Her daughter uttered some noises that can be translated into "Sheila sounds great mom. I am going to need to go to the grocery store soon and get more bananas for the family." Oh wait....Mama ape is pounding her chest again.
Anonymous
11/30/2020 17:39
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:One does not handle a narcissist.
So true. Since my mother will never stop trying to gaslight me and will never truly hear/listen to me I just had to drop contact.
Anonymous
11/30/2020 08:09
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
You all, like many people, are dx'ing people as having NPD (is she clinically diagnosed?) when really they are just a$$holes.
They're socially maladjusted a-holes, who happen to also be parents, about 99.9% of the time. True NPD is quite rare, and requires the diagnosis of a professional. It might make you feel better to think they are mentally ill according to the DSM, because, maybe, it lets you off the hook for naming your parent what they are.
They're socially maladjusted a-holes, who happen to also be parents, about 99.9% of the time. True NPD is quite rare, and requires the diagnosis of a professional. It might make you feel better to think they are mentally ill according to the DSM, because, maybe, it lets you off the hook for naming your parent what they are.
Anonymous
11/30/2020 06:27
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:One does not handle a narcissist.
Well said.
No matter the mental gymnastics you do, exporter to a narcissist is an emotional cancer. Any relationship with a narcissist is a constant mind fu%k. Constant abuse.
Anonymous
11/30/2020 06:19
Subject: Re:How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:Read the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It will help explain these dynamics and give you ways to avoid getting drawn into these kind of emotional prisons.
What I have learned is that it is not about trying to firmly set a boundary and then watch her to see if she crosses it. It's about learning to observe her behavior, identify what she is doing that is triggering me (which you are already doing, by identifying the golden child dynamic), and then using my observation to gain emotional distance. My goal is detachment, to view her behavior like I'm Jane Goodall and these are the curious behaviors of the apes in my study. It is hard, but the more I lean into observation and curiosity, the less likely I am to take bait or try to defend myself or engage in conversations that will leave me feeling confused, hurt, or misunderstood.
It also helps me to have someone to discuss my observations with. Right now, that's my husband. I had a call with my mother yesterday where she was herself, and then this morning while out on a walk, I told my husband about it and we discussed her behavior. He is supportive and good at listening, plus knows my mom and what she is like, so also receptive. And knowing I can debrief with him later make it easier for me to detach when I talk to her, because if I start to feel my feeling elevate, I can remind myself that I will have an opportunity later to express those feelings with him. He will be a receptive audience, but my mother will not. Learning this has helped me create boundaries that I can easily hold for myself, without having to police them. I just know that if I want to discuss my feelings about something my mom said or did, I go to my husband. When I'm talking to my mom, I detach and observe. Those are my boundaries. I observe them. No one else really has to do anything at all, which is good because I can't control what other people do.
I too have a narcissistic mother and I did this for years and IT IS EXHAUSTING. To constantly have to put up a protective barrier is so draining.
I got sick of it and went no contact. I had such a peaceful Thanksgiving with the people I consider my family. I did not have to think about my reaction or observe anyone's dysfunctional dynamic. I was just me. Enjoying a meal with people without motives.
Anonymous
11/30/2020 03:57
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
23.33 wow that is very insightful and great to read.
OP I wish I knew, I have the same problem but have days where I am fine ignoring and other days where it bothers me and quite frankly, I don't enjoy the relationship as it's too stressful.
Although I can't help with advice I wanted to say I am sorry you are going through this.
OP I wish I knew, I have the same problem but have days where I am fine ignoring and other days where it bothers me and quite frankly, I don't enjoy the relationship as it's too stressful.
Although I can't help with advice I wanted to say I am sorry you are going through this.
Anonymous
11/29/2020 23:33
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:I think you might be more forgiving when you come into your mother’s shoes as a parent with adult children. You may not know exactly why she is emphasizing praise to your brother. Maybe your brother is secretly suffering from depression and needs the extra attention? Maybe she is trying to get him to participate and do more? She probably thinks you are a strong person and don’t need the extra attention that your no so mentally strong brother needs. Your mother is not perfect, and neither are you.
It is good to empathize with your parents, or with older people generally, because everyone deserves empathy. And none of us knows what aging will bring. It is true that family life can be complex and, in her mind, a mother who does this with her adult children may truly not realize how it is hurtful or harmful.
But it's also not relevant to OP's issue. This isn't a question of forgiving her mother or not. If you are an adult with a parent who has failed to provide emotional support throughout your life (but especially in your childhood when your awareness and personality formed), it doesn't matter what you mother's reasons for doing this are. It will trigger the same response in you it triggered as a child, which is to feel insecure and to seek validation that will not come because of family dynamics. When you have been dealing with that specific dynamic for 30 or 40 years, and particularly if you have children of your own, you need to find ways to manage that relationship with your mom so that her behavior does not continue to trigger the same feelings of abandonment and emotional neglect.
That's what this thread is about. What do you do when you do not and have never gotten emotional support from a parent? And in particular, when that parent engages in triggering behavior like using comparative language regarding a sibling? How do you avoid rising to the bait, or spiraling from that trigger? These are practical concerns. How does OP function within her relationship with her mom, and just in general, when her mom continues to engage in hurtful behavior?
If you can understand where OP's mom is coming from, that's fine. Again, empathy is good and has it's place. But there's no role for the "be more forgiving, that will be you someday" argument. Maybe so! In the meantime, OP needs to find a way to function.