Anonymous wrote:Watch him and make sure he can plan and execute the following.

Early on:

A meal (this includes shop/prep/cook/cleanup)

An outing (how do we get there? Is there a cost? Do we need jackets/hiking boots):

Midway through:

A weekend trip (doesn't mean he has to pay, just plan)

Visits to meet his friends or family (and when you get there, does he put his feet up or does he let the women handle all the serving?)

Execution and follow-through are great indicators of not developing strategic incompetence; whether this has to do with loading the dishwasher or parenting a teenager.

Oooohhh that's a good one!

Anonymous wrote:Easiest way to figure out what kind of husband/partner a man will be:

What kind of husband and partner is his dad?

There are exceptions of course, especially when so many guys are raised by single moms, but it’s a pretty good rule.

THIS!!! He may live his single life differently, but when he gets married and has a family, he will likely fall back into patterns he saw in his house growing up.

In DH's case, he went from fairly independent single man to expecting his wife to run the household entirely while he concentrated on work and if he did one thing, he wanted applause and a parade. Because that's how his dad and mom did it. He did a couple more things than his dad ever did (who didn't lift a finger), and thought that made him an amazingly "equal" partner.

Anonymous wrote:I think that a man who has his mother do a lot for him is just looking for a wife to take over mom's work.

I dated a guy in college who didn't know how to do laundry. How is that possible? Did he just buy new clothes every time his were dirty? No...mommy was there to take care of it for him.

My future spouse would iron my shirts so I could go on interviews. He was great at ironing and offered. It was attractive.

Red flag: guy is >25 years old and his mama is still buying his underpants. True story.

Anonymous wrote:One red flag is her level of OCD.

I should have realised what was the case when she lived alone in a one bedroom apartment with a dishwasher and in-unit laundry and still needed six+ hours of cleaning time every Saturday (on top of the maintenance cleaning throughout the week).

SMH.

Anonymous wrote:One red flag is her personality. Any Type A perfectionist who has to have things done her way or it’s wrong is in for a long haul in this space.

Pay attention bitter man troll. This is a thread about people like you. Ladies, another red flag. Defensive and completely unable to accept fault; a lack of introspection and a horrible relationship with either parent. If they don’t do the work they will kick the can to everyone before actually picking it up and putting it in the damn trash can.

Why are you here?!?! Go away. You’re creeping me out, not interested today. Send the damn child support!

One red flag is her level of OCD.

I should have realised what was the case when she lived alone in a one bedroom apartment with a dishwasher and in-unit laundry and still needed six+ hours of cleaning time every Saturday (on top of the maintenance cleaning throughout the week).

Anonymous wrote:One red flag is her personality. Any Type A perfectionist who has to have things done her way or it’s wrong is in for a long haul in this space.

+1


I agree. I have no idea how some guys live with those high maintenance women who do the "tanning, gym, botox" thing for a good part of the day - this isn't a reality show! Plus, those are the same women who have to have the "best" this or that - a decorator, the latest everything and anything, the high end that or that.

That would positively exhaust me, even if I had all the money in the world. If a partner knows how to pick their battles, knows where they came from (no brought up on beer, but now insists on champagne - only the best, of course), knows how to have fun (and we have the same ideas of fun!), and is not more high maintenance than not, that is a much less stressful and much more enjoyable life - otherwise, sayonara!

Know where you came from, and show some humility - don't be a demanding, my way or else byotch. I don't care what "everyone else" at the expensive private school is doing.

I think you can tell based on how you navigate chores and other household responsibilities while living together before marriage. Obviously you want him to be doing 50% or more of the actual work, but it also depends on how you get there-- was it a struggle or did he always assume you would split the work? Do you have to remind him/ask him to do stuff all the time? Is there a lot of "mental load" stuff that falls on you to remember and coordinate (does he expect you to find/book plumbers or electricians or coordinate with your landlord when there are issues? to buy presents or send cards to his family members? to schedule social outings with your mutual friends?)

Also, does he act like his job and career are more important than yours?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a man who has his mother do a lot for him is just looking for a wife to take over mom's work.

I dated a guy in college who didn't know how to do laundry. How is that possible? Did he just buy new clothes every time his were dirty? No...mommy was there to take care of it for him.

My future spouse would iron my shirts so I could go on interviews. He was great at ironing and offered. It was attractive.

+1 DH ironed his own shirts and did most of the cooking when we were dating. His mother taught him how to do all of that.

He's not great at cleaning, but he does everything else.

We are teaching both our DS and DD how to cook, clean, and do laundry, among other things.

+100. Where was this thread when I was engaged?!

Anonymous wrote:I just saw a NYT article about working mothers during the pandemic, saw the thread about household work, and have many working mothers in my workplace. It seems like wives do so much more than husbands on average. I’m not married, and am just in the dating around phase (well, before Covid). If I want to get married to a man that pulls his weight with household and child tasks, what are some green flags? My parents were pretty equitable 60/40, and the only sign I could see as a early sign was that my dad’s mom worked outside the home.

If he makes less than you.

Anonymous wrote:I once dated a guy who had a cleaning service come clean his 800 square apartment every other week.

My sister had a baby nurse come for a couple weeks when her third kids was a newborn and she had three year old twins. He expressed disapproval of that. I pointed out that he had a cleaning service. He said, "Yeah, but I don't expect to hire housekeepers once I am married."

Next!

Yes, you made the right call here. Also who TF is he to have an opinion on someone hiring a baby nurse?

Watch him and make sure he can plan and execute the following.

Early on:

A meal (this includes shop/prep/cook/cleanup)

An outing (how do we get there? Is there a cost? Do we need jackets/hiking boots):

Midway through:

A weekend trip (doesn't mean he has to pay, just plan)

Visits to meet his friends or family (and when you get there, does he put his feet up or does he let the women handle all the serving?)

Execution and follow-through are great indicators of not developing strategic incompetence; whether this has to do with loading the dishwasher or parenting a teenager.

I once dated a guy who had a cleaning service come clean his 800 square apartment every other week.

My sister had a baby nurse come for a couple weeks when her third kids was a newborn and she had three year old twins. He expressed disapproval of that. I pointed out that he had a cleaning service. He said, "Yeah, but I don't expect to hire housekeepers once I am married."

Next!

One red flag is her personality. Any Type A perfectionist who has to have things done her way or it’s wrong is in for a long haul in this space.

Anonymous wrote:Green flags:
1. Lives alone or with a roommate and the place is not a wreck.
2. Can cook.
3. Doesn't outsource every single thing (wash and fold, for instance) unless he has a crazy 80 hr/week job
4. Maintains good relationships with his family
5. Has close friends of both genders
6. Didn't have a SAHM (they can't help this one, but by observation and studies, it really matters to how they internalize whose "job" it is to handle all the grunt work)

+1

Number 6 is controversial, but MIL was a SAHM who watched tv all day, with a bunch of kids, and she didn't do much - she was checked out, was not a great (or even good enough) cook, made little effort (except to jump for FIL), and didn't have any identity other than FIL. I think bc she was exhausted of having to "wait on" FIL, who was consistently emotionally unavailable. Ultimately, it is about how the dad treats the mom, mutual respect (!!!) and what kind of example your potential husband had (in his parents), growing up.