Most of us are facing these small decisions and it's uncomfortable. The friend put you between a rock and a hard place.

This winter, including Thanksgiving, we are not doing indoor gatherings with anyone other than our immediate household. Full stop. This means no grandparents indoors. It's easier to have a blanket rule than to make these small decisions at every turn.

We have reasons for making a blanket rule that's not relevant to the DMV. Specifically, our kids are in-person school. We're focusing all of our risk (which isn't insignificant) on school.

Your house? Just say no.

Who thinks it is ok to bring guests to a friend’s house? How rude. In the middle of a pandemic? No way.

I would suggest having thanksgiving lunch together as planned. Then she can see her brother, order chinese, do whatever with them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend and I were planning to hold Thanksgiving together because our kids are close and we've all been socializing since restrctions started. I thought we were all on the same page about keeping things small until my friend said she wants to invite her brother and his SO because they have nowhere to go. Sigh. I told her DH and I were under the impression it would just be our little group. The conversation ended uncomfortably with her asking what's really the big deal. He's fine. Yes, we're all fine but still, based on the numbers, it could be wishful thinking.

Is this how it's going to be until the pandemic is over? I feel like a few friendships have already started to wither due to varying levels of comfort, willingness to Zoom, discomfort with mask wearing. Then, there are the indignant grandparents you have to warn against flying on a plane for Christmas because they're well over 70 and if they get Covid, you're going to have to fly out there to go to the hospital and God forbid, arrange for a burial... I'm so sick of this.

You sound a little nutty. There is a 95% survival rate for 70 somethings who get COVID. I’m not saying they should travel, but it isn’t an automatic death sentence.

We have older family members with lung issues, so yes, it could be deadly for them. Thanksgiving isn't worth risking their lives.

Yes this pandemic is definitely putting strains on relationships. Both with friends and family. It sucks.

Anonymous wrote:A friend and I were planning to hold Thanksgiving together because our kids are close and we've all been socializing since restrctions started. I thought we were all on the same page about keeping things small until my friend said she wants to invite her brother and his SO because they have nowhere to go. Sigh. I told her DH and I were under the impression it would just be our little group. The conversation ended uncomfortably with her asking what's really the big deal. He's fine. Yes, we're all fine but still, based on the numbers, it could be wishful thinking.

Is this how it's going to be until the pandemic is over? I feel like a few friendships have already started to wither due to varying levels of comfort, willingness to Zoom, discomfort with mask wearing. Then, there are the indignant grandparents you have to warn against flying on a plane for Christmas because they're well over 70 and if they get Covid, you're going to have to fly out there to go to the hospital and God forbid, arrange for a burial... I'm so sick of this.

You sound a little nutty. There is a 95% survival rate for 70 somethings who get COVID. I’m not saying they should travel, but it isn’t an automatic death sentence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So sorry OP.

Yes, unfortunately, this new social pressure is here to stay for awhile. Just be clear and kind. You can say nicely but firmly you are not willing to up the risk. I think the pp who made it sound like an extra two people are no big deal demonstrates the problem. Some people realize, it is no longer “2 more people”. It is everyone the two people interacted with the week before you have to worry about. So adding 2 more people has a multiplier effect.

This is a good way (IMO the correct way) to think about it. But OP is correct that many people are sensitive about others' risk tolerance and some are getting offended to the point where friendships and family relationships are getting strained at best. It's a sad collateral damage of COVID. I'm always surprised to see people mention they were "comfortable" in a particular venue. Yes, masks or PPE help and you can see those, but you can't see or feel exposure to a virus, so I wouldn't take that much comfort in how you feel based on visual observation.

OP here. I agree. There is a misguided sense that if you "feel" ok, it's ok. I haven't seen my own parents nor siblings since March, and that's because we've all realized it has nothing to do with how we "feel." This is a highly contagious virus that doesn't take into consideration how comfortable we feel with each other. That's why I'm so suprised by my friend altering the plans. She's known people who fell deathly ill from Covid. And things are getting worse out there. We're at record numbers and that tells me now is not the time to bring people into our home we don't know well. We didn't do that back in April, so why now? For the life of me I don't understand why my friend thinks DH and I should be ok with this. If my own siblings, who I haven't seen for months, visited, I certainly wouldn't bring them to anyone else's house. That's the last thing I'd do, especially knowing that one of them is always on public transportation.

Thank you for all of the advice. This is not easy to navigate, and not something I expected to have to navigate seeing how bad this winter may be. DH is leaning towards just calling off the whole thing, and I'm starting to think for the sake of keeping the peace, and staying healthy, that may be the best thing to do. Oh well. There's always next year.

Anonymous wrote:So sorry OP.

Yes, unfortunately, this new social pressure is here to stay for awhile. Just be clear and kind. You can say nicely but firmly you are not willing to up the risk. I think the pp who made it sound like an extra two people are no big deal demonstrates the problem. Some people realize, it is no longer “2 more people”. It is everyone the two people interacted with the week before you have to worry about. So adding 2 more people has a multiplier effect.

This is a good way (IMO the correct way) to think about it. But OP is correct that many people are sensitive about others' risk tolerance and some are getting offended to the point where friendships and family relationships are getting strained at best. It's a sad collateral damage of COVID. I'm always surprised to see people mention they were "comfortable" in a particular venue. Yes, masks or PPE help and you can see those, but you can't see or feel exposure to a virus, so I wouldn't take that much comfort in how you feel based on visual observation.

I don’t know op. You trust these friends enough so that you include them in “your bubble”. You do know that you have no way to know how “fine” they are right? You only think you know because you trust them.

That being said, you can host or not host anybody you’d like. That hasn’t changed with covid.

You did say that you want Thanksgiving to be “fun for the kids”. The people you are excluding are the uncle and maybe future aunt of kids whom you like and trust enough to include in your bubble.

Don’t think for a minute that your decision whatever you do won’t impact them.

The kids may really want to see their uncle and aunt. I know mine would. We also have two sets of aunts and uncles who do not have children, a status you seem to frown upon. Know that there isn’t much for people to do this Thanksgiving and that the brother and girlfriend may really be looking forward to seeing their nieces and nephews if not your own kids.


It sounds creepy to say it given all the uncle niece jokes, but I can tell by watching my kids’ aunts and uncles, they’d be sad if not hurt at not being able to see their nieces and nephews. I don’t talk about it much, and the world treats people without children as “well, they have all this free time, they don’t need family time” when these aunts and uncles may need time with nieces and nephews in a way that is very deep and personal.

If you don’t host them due to covid, plan on something like the following happening.

You say “happy Thanksgiving” and one of the kids says “no it isn’t, Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane aren’t here”.
Or “one of your friends kids brings a book and says to your kid “I’m not playing with you, your mom told my mom Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane might have covid so they aren’t allowed to enjoy Thanksgiving”.


Or, when the kids are old enough, they will tell their parents they don’t want to see you.
My kids can and probably would do all of these. Actually, my kids would probably start coughing and talking about how they feel like they have a fever just to f**ck with you.


Or, you will think everything is fine only to have one of the kids as an adult tell their children about Covid and say “I remember Covid, we hung out with Sally and Jack and their kids. In many ways it wasn’t too bad. Then Thanksgiving happened, and I’ll never forget how they wouldn’t host Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane, saying they weren’t sure they were healthy… and I’ve never forgotten how mean that was, yes they were allowed not to host, but when I think of it, I go right back to my little kid self and I’ve hated Sally ever since”.

Pain isn’t rational and you can’t predict who you will hurt, in what way and how they will feel about you.

If I were you, and you really didn’t want to host the family members of people you claim to really like, (something that puzzles me) I’d tell this friend your oven or your furnace broke and you can’t host.


In other words, find a way to get out of hosting by blaming your house, blaming something that can happen to anybody. I’d vote for the furnace, that way nobody can say “but we’ll just bring lots of food” or “we’ll eat off paper plates”.

You aren’t wrong for not hosting the brother and girlfriend, you just need to find a way to do it in a way that is socially acceptable and won’t damage the friendship. I can guarantee you that if you go about it in the “my house my rules” method, this friendship will never be the same. You can treat people how you’d like but nobody has to agree to remain in a relationship with you if they feel that you have treated them or their family poorly. Your friendship and your bubble aren’t that awesome.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To clairfy, we were planning to hold it at my house. If it were at her house, well, then this would be easier.

Well honestly that is super rude to be inviting other people to a Thanksgiving you're not even hosting. Like even in non covid times. I would just say, 'I don't feel comfortable hosting people outside of our POD, I hope you understand and I totally get it if you decide you would rather spend the day with your brother.'

+1

Kids aside, she’s asking to include other folks that you have no idea what they have been doing socially, and what their risk tolerance is.

The script above is perfect...but then what are you going to do after Thanksgiving?

I'm also wondering if she felt okay asking because she and OP were planning the Thanksgiving together, so that, while OP was technically hosting at her house, it was really a joint endeavor.

I would add -- if she's already seeing her brother, I think the risk is already partially baked in.

Maybe lead off with 'I certainly understand that your brother is important to you and you would like to spend the holiday with him. But unfortunately, I am not comfortable inviting others to have dinner inside. So I would be 100% ok if you decide to celebrate the holiday at your house with your brother instead of with us."

There are ways to protect yourself (and the country) without risking your friendship.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To clairfy, we were planning to hold it at my house. If it were at her house, well, then this would be easier.

Oh well then. Just say you arent comfortable and decided to go a different direction for the holiday. She can do something separate with her sibling. It's still a few weeks out.

Is your friend already seeing and interacting with her brother and SO? If so, isn't that vector already established in terms of your family being connected to them, even if not directly? I ask because you mentioned that she could just have dessert with her brother, which implies she's already seeing him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To clairfy, we were planning to hold it at my house. If it were at her house, well, then this would be easier.

Well honestly that is super rude to be inviting other people to a Thanksgiving you're not even hosting. Like even in non covid times. I would just say, 'I don't feel comfortable hosting people outside of our POD, I hope you understand and I totally get it if you decide you would rather spend the day with your brother.'

+1

Kids aside, she’s asking to include other folks that you have no idea what they have been doing socially, and what their risk tolerance is.

The script above is perfect...but then what are you going to do after Thanksgiving?

So sorry OP.

Yes, unfortunately, this new social pressure is here to stay for awhile. Just be clear and kind. You can say nicely but firmly you are not willing to up the risk. I think the pp who made it sound like an extra two people are no big deal demonstrates the problem. Some people realize, it is no longer “2 more people”. It is everyone the two people interacted with the week before you have to worry about. So adding 2 more people has a multiplier effect.

I feel for you, OP. I am seeing everyone do socializing in different ways. I see some people sharing meals in backyards but then sit close together without masks to take pictures. Or go for walks together.

Just say "I'm sorry but DH and I are being really strict about our quarantine bubble. I'll be disappointed but understand if you'd rather spend the holiday with your family." And if she does that, then just wait two weeks to socialize with her again.