Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. How do you handle a situation where the person sort of apologizes but then says they blacked out so don’t remember the bad behavior? Do you bring up specifics?

You say "Well I do remember. As a result XYZ happened or I still feel . . .

Your comments about his behavior will help him continue to process the effects of his addiction and move forward in his recovery including making any amends

That's how I handled it for what its worth. My mother got black out drunk and then tried to kill herself while I was home for the holidays. In the meantime she penned notes and left them all over the house blaming me for all of her problems and telling me what a horrible daughter I am. The next day, while in the ER with my dad after we found her, I conferred with the doctors, had her involuntarily hospitalized for three days, and stayed in town to help my dad through it all. Skip ahead, she emailed me that I was "really hurting [my] dad by not forgiving her" and I was just being selfish. So I sent her an email detailing every single thing she wrote, said and did over that 24 hour period, none of which she remembered. IF - and it was a big if - I was going to forgive her, it was part of my process that I wanted her to know what I was forgiving.

Oh, and I should say (or started with!) I'm so sorry you are going through this. It's really painful. But what I just detailed happened about 13 years ago and my mom and I are very close today, after a lot of work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. How do you handle a situation where the person sort of apologizes but then says they blacked out so don’t remember the bad behavior? Do you bring up specifics?

You say "Well I do remember. As a result XYZ happened or I still feel . . .

Your comments about his behavior will help him continue to process the effects of his addiction and move forward in his recovery including making any amends

That's how I handled it for what its worth. My mother got black out drunk and then tried to kill herself while I was home for the holidays. In the meantime she penned notes and left them all over the house blaming me for all of her problems and telling me what a horrible daughter I am. The next day, while in the ER with my dad after we found her, I conferred with the doctors, had her involuntarily hospitalized for three days, and stayed in town to help my dad through it all. Skip ahead, she emailed me that I was "really hurting [my] dad by not forgiving her" and I was just being selfish. So I sent her an email detailing every single thing she wrote, said and did over that 24 hour period, none of which she remembered. IF - and it was a big if - I was going to forgive her, it was part of my process that I wanted her to know what I was forgiving.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. How do you handle a situation where the person sort of apologizes but then says they blacked out so don’t remember the bad behavior? Do you bring up specifics?

You say "Well I do remember. As a result XYZ happened or I still feel . . .

Your comments about his behavior will help him continue to process the effects of his addiction and move forward in his recovery including making any amends

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, I have been in your shoes. This is above DCUM's pay grade. The posters who say Al-Anon and therapist are right. Especially therapist. You need and deserve to really talk through this with a pro. The pressure to put aside or minimize your own hurts and your own feelings because someone else is trying to deal with addiction will backfire on you, been there too.

+1 - agree that a therapist could really help you come to terms with your own feelings about what has happened to you and to your family. Having an impartial third party tell me I wasn't crazy and that my feelings were valid, and that I wasn't responsible for anyone else's feelings was so, so valuable to me when I dealt with a complicated family issue of my own years ago.

Your brother is allowed to offer you an apology, but you're also allowed to say you aren't ready to hear it - now or ever.

Exactly this. And you can also listen to and accept his apology without ever letting him back in your life.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I’m feeling cornered because my family has already had issues with the boundaries I have chosen to set up between my brother and my family’. In their eyes I’m taking my brothers bad behavior too seriously and should forgive so we can all be a family. Sounds nice in theory but years of drunken tirades and inappropriate behavior just doesn't go away. I also feel compelled to defend my wife.

OP, this is another reason why you might find Al-Anon helpful. You need support for your decisions and you can find it in Al-Anon. You may also find people who have done things other ways. But from what you're saying about your family, I wonder if they have spent a lot of time enabling him and not respecting your need to set boundaries. You don't want to put yourself in the position where everyone is ganging up on you to accept his apology. Folks at Al-Anon talk about the choices they have made. They're not going to pressure you to do one thing or the other but they will listen.

Good luck with this! I hope whatever happens that you and your wife find peace. I have had a number of alcoholics in my immediate family (two found recovery and one died of alcoholism) and it sucks!

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, I have been in your shoes. This is above DCUM's pay grade. The posters who say Al-Anon and therapist are right. Especially therapist. You need and deserve to really talk through this with a pro. The pressure to put aside or minimize your own hurts and your own feelings because someone else is trying to deal with addiction will backfire on you, been there too.

+1 - agree that a therapist could really help you come to terms with your own feelings about what has happened to you and to your family. Having an impartial third party tell me I wasn't crazy and that my feelings were valid, and that I wasn't responsible for anyone else's feelings was so, so valuable to me when I dealt with a complicated family issue of my own years ago.

Your brother is allowed to offer you an apology, but you're also allowed to say you aren't ready to hear it - now or ever.

Hi OP, I have been in your shoes. This is above DCUM's pay grade. The posters who say Al-Anon and therapist are right. Especially therapist. You need and deserve to really talk through this with a pro. The pressure to put aside or minimize your own hurts and your own feelings because someone else is trying to deal with addiction will backfire on you, been there too.

It sounds like you're not ready. If you really really want to listen, just tell him to put what he wants to say in a letter and send it to you. That way you have time to digest and decide whether he's sincere or not, and tell him not to bug you for a response until you're ready.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I’m feeling cornered because my family has already had issues with the boundaries I have chosen to set up between my brother and my family’. In their eyes I’m taking my brothers bad behavior too seriously and should forgive so we can all be a family. Sounds nice in theory but years of drunken tirades and inappropriate behavior just doesn't go away. I also feel compelled to defend my wife.

This is a textbook description of enablers. This behavior by them is part of the reason your brother is an alcoholic in the first place. Don't take advice from people who are still active in their own enabling.

Also don't fob this off on "defending your wife". You are entitled to, and should, protect yourself as well.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. How do you handle a situation where the person sort of apologizes but then says they blacked out so don’t remember the bad behavior? Do you bring up specifics?

If it will be helpful for you, you should do definitely go into specifics.

OP, my brother is a recovering alcoholic. He never made amends and continued to act in childish, verbally aggressive ways even after he was sober, I think because his development was stunted by his drinking (which started very early) and also because he has underlying emotional issues that probably contributed to his drinking in the first place.

He lashes out every time there is stress in the family because he has no way to handle it. When my father became ill my brother cut off contact with me and my sister for several things he literally imagined we did. He refused to speak to us at my father's funeral. A few months after my father died, he sent me a letter. It was supposedly to make amends for his behavior during that time and re-initiate contact, but mostly re-invented history to paint himself as a victim. I struggled with how to handle it. I could see the work he had put into it, did not want to jeopardize his recovery, but could also see how very far he was from real growth. I couldn't think of a reason to have him in my life.

In the end, I decided the kindest response I could muster was ignoring it. I felt like he was not in a place to handle any truths I unleashed on him, and I also didn't think it was my responsibility to support the fiction he sent me. My sister chose to re-initiate contact, and she has since cut it off again because of his behavior. My mom "stays out of it". I think honestly she is relieved he is mad at us because for years he was mad at her and him having somewhere else to direct his anger has mad her life easier (he is the only one of us that still lives in her city).

All of this to say: you are not cruel to maintain boundaries. It is not your responsibility to allow your brother to try to repair the relationship he destroyed on his timeline. If you are not ready to talk to him yet, don't. If you would accept and read a letter from him, you could offer that. Or you could just say you are not ready to talk and will let him know when you are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I’m feeling cornered because my family has already had issues with the boundaries I have chosen to set up between my brother and my family’. In their eyes I’m taking my brothers bad behavior too seriously and should forgive so we can all be a family. Sounds nice in theory but years of drunken tirades and inappropriate behavior just doesn't go away. I also feel compelled to defend my wife.

This is about you and your conscience - ignore your family. Also listening to the apology is not betraying your wife. (In face she deserves her own apology.) All it’s doing is listening; that’s all.

Easy to say, but the reality is that it can open up old trauma and set you back in a bad way. OP should do it when he's ready.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. How do you handle a situation where the person sort of apologizes but then says they blacked out so don’t remember the bad behavior? Do you bring up specifics?

Bring up whatever you need to bring up to make the conversation meaningful to you. You can be supportive and tell him you hope for a strong relationship one day, and that you hope to move past these things one day. Bringing up your real feelings is a part of this process.

First priority is to your immediate family. I would express that I was pleased he was seeking help, but that I was not yet at a place where I felt ready to talk about the past. Wish him well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I’m feeling cornered because my family has already had issues with the boundaries I have chosen to set up between my brother and my family’. In their eyes I’m taking my brothers bad behavior too seriously and should forgive so we can all be a family. Sounds nice in theory but years of drunken tirades and inappropriate behavior just doesn't go away. I also feel compelled to defend my wife.

This is about you and your conscience - ignore your family. Also listening to the apology is not betraying your wife. (In face she deserves her own apology.) All it’s doing is listening; that’s all.

This. You're not required to forgive your brother instantly just because he apologized. But you're also not required to carry a grudge and refuse to listen. I think you should tell your brother that you're glad he's in rehab (you are, aren't you?) and you do want to talk to him, but you need some time to work through some things. Then attend some al-anon meetings so you can work through your feelings with some people who have been in your shoes. If he's genuinely contrite, he won't keep pressuring you to listen before you're ready. But I think you owe it to yourself and your family to try to get to a place where you can at least listen and entertain the possibility of forgiveness and reconciliation. You might ultimately decide you don't want those things, but don't close yourself off to them automatically. You might feel relieved to be able to lay down some the burden of your anger and hurt.

And tell your family to butt out. Your relationship with your brother is your business, and they aren't helping by pushing you to just make nice. A true reconciliation would be a great gift to you and your brother, but that won't be achieved by rushing to pretend.