Anonymous
11/01/2020 15:03
Subject: Re:Need an outside perspective
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:NP. I"m sorry there are so many jerks on this thread. People could have posted some of the thoughts above without having to insult you as "exhausting" or "needy," both of whihc are so often and so inappropriately used on DCUM that they mean nothing any more.
OP, your post about feeling your DH doesn't "see" you translates, to me, as he seems, to you, to have no interest in you as a person with a past, your own interests, etc. I would wager he doesn't ask you about your opinions of things (whether it's politics, the food you're both eating, the show you're watching, whatever) nor does he show any interest in what you're doing at work/hobbies/with the kids if any. If that is accurate...I agree that the place to start is individual therapy, ASAP. You need an objective third party to help you assess what you're really seeing from him and how you're reacting to it.
If he has always been like this, you may need to rethink what you expect from the relationship and why youd expect something he was never giving you even before marriage. If this is a change, and previously he showed interest in you as a person, then you need to figure out what might have caused the change.
While it's true many men are not great at expressing affection the way many women would like them to -- people can learn to do new things, and that includes learning to meet a spouse halfway in terms of meeting those needs. But yeah, you need to start unpacking this, especially your own needs and expectations and whether you or he has changed, by working with a professional yourself first.
You'll get more of the nasty "leave him alone, you're the problem" posts here, unfortunately. I'm not saying he's evil and you're perfect. But it's pretty hard to be in a relationship if what you want is a spouse who takes some interest in what interests you, or at least tries. If that's the issue you're talking about, think through why you married him, what is positive in the relationship, why you feel the need to do "bonding exercises" that end up in a dispute, etc. and whether this is a change.
OP here and I think you hit upon something - and that is that this is something about me, not him. It's something I've struggled my whole life with - feeling "unseen". And I'm trying to get it from him, but I know I won't. Because, while he is not a bad guy, he's never been someone who understands or is in interested in people except in abstract terms.
Time for therapy. As a child, my goal was to be "unseen" to get through my childhood. But that tactic is not serving me so well into adulthood.
OP, it sounds like you were trying to do a therapy exercise with yourself as you and the therapist. There are several books- John Gottman's books, the book on love languages- that might be helpful for both you and your DH if he is wiling to read and reflect himself, which it sounds like he may be. You and he have different love languages. This is very common and can be worked on successfully within a marriage. If you stay married long enough, this issue will come up. Therapy will get you started if he is willing, but you say he is not. The books can help take the pressure off of you to act as therapist and as yourself and may give your DH the privacy and the structure that he wants and needs for these conversations to be helpful.
Anonymous
11/01/2020 14:51
Subject: Re:Need an outside perspective
Anonymous wrote:NP. I"m sorry there are so many jerks on this thread. People could have posted some of the thoughts above without having to insult you as "exhausting" or "needy," both of whihc are so often and so inappropriately used on DCUM that they mean nothing any more.
OP, your post about feeling your DH doesn't "see" you translates, to me, as he seems, to you, to have no interest in you as a person with a past, your own interests, etc. I would wager he doesn't ask you about your opinions of things (whether it's politics, the food you're both eating, the show you're watching, whatever) nor does he show any interest in what you're doing at work/hobbies/with the kids if any. If that is accurate...I agree that the place to start is individual therapy, ASAP. You need an objective third party to help you assess what you're really seeing from him and how you're reacting to it.
If he has always been like this, you may need to rethink what you expect from the relationship and why youd expect something he was never giving you even before marriage. If this is a change, and previously he showed interest in you as a person, then you need to figure out what might have caused the change.
While it's true many men are not great at expressing affection the way many women would like them to -- people can learn to do new things, and that includes learning to meet a spouse halfway in terms of meeting those needs. But yeah, you need to start unpacking this, especially your own needs and expectations and whether you or he has changed, by working with a professional yourself first.
You'll get more of the nasty "leave him alone, you're the problem" posts here, unfortunately. I'm not saying he's evil and you're perfect. But it's pretty hard to be in a relationship if what you want is a spouse who takes some interest in what interests you, or at least tries. If that's the issue you're talking about, think through why you married him, what is positive in the relationship, why you feel the need to do "bonding exercises" that end up in a dispute, etc. and whether this is a change.
OP here and I think you hit upon something - and that is that this is something about me, not him. It's something I've struggled my whole life with - feeling "unseen". And I'm trying to get it from him, but I know I won't. Because, while he is not a bad guy, he's never been someone who understands or is in interested in people except in abstract terms.
Time for therapy. As a child, my goal was to be "unseen" to get through my childhood. But that tactic is not serving me so well into adulthood.
Anonymous
11/01/2020 01:54
Subject: Re:Need an outside perspective
Not trying to be snarky (I swear!) but your husband has a good point.
Knowing you as well as he does - it is likely that he knew by participating in this exercise would only lead to an argument.
You asked >>> he answered.
If you cannot accept his truth, then perhaps it is best not to ask in the first place.
Knowing you as well as he does - it is likely that he knew by participating in this exercise would only lead to an argument.
You asked >>> he answered.
If you cannot accept his truth, then perhaps it is best not to ask in the first place.
Anonymous
11/01/2020 01:16
Subject: Need an outside perspective
You cannot ask someone to answer a question and then decide their answers aren't good enough. This is very manipulative.
Anonymous
10/31/2020 18:03
Subject: Re:Need an outside perspective
Anonymous wrote:I think you are needy and annoying. Team DH.
Agree
- woman here, happily married for decades and I would be annoyed at your game
Agreed it sounds like a game and you sound like the type of person who would find fault with anything he said just because you think you’re making a point.
Anonymous
10/31/2020 17:58
Subject: Re:Need an outside perspective
I think you are needy and annoying. Team DH.
Agree
- woman here, happily married for decades and I would be annoyed at your game
Anonymous
10/31/2020 17:53
Subject: Re:Need an outside perspective
Anonymous wrote:While I don’t think you can be angry at him, I can get why it would make you doubt things. Once my husband said the thing he loved most about me is that I’m nice, and that’s not really how I see myself per se, or something I care to be valued more for than say, my intellect, loyalty etc whatever. His answers seem like what he loves about you are things that suppress your actual personality. I understand why it’s upsetting.
But your other items can easily be turned around as well. If someone said loyalty, that to me would mean either you want to do crazy sh%t and expect me to stand by you and not question you. It’s like how mob bosses value loyalty. Intellect could seem unexciting. If someone said looks, that could seem shallow. Also, there are many people that are nice that are loyal that are smart, that are nice looking but that doesn’t specifically get at why the person loves you and not all the other people that have any of those things.
Anonymous
10/31/2020 16:52
Subject: Re:Need an outside perspective
While I don’t think you can be angry at him, I can get why it would make you doubt things. Once my husband said the thing he loved most about me is that I’m nice, and that’s not really how I see myself per se, or something I care to be valued more for than say, my intellect, loyalty etc whatever. His answers seem like what he loves about you are things that suppress your actual personality. I understand why it’s upsetting.
Anonymous
10/31/2020 16:34
Subject: Need an outside perspective
Anonymous wrote:On what I thought would be a bonding exercise for me and DH, I said we should share the qualities we love about each other the most. DH first refused to participate. But after some cajoling - he shared that the thing he loves about me the most was that I don't talk too much. I pressed him for another answer, because frankly I didn't like that first answer. Then after some thought, he said it was that it was my capacity to change. I didn't love that answer either, so then he got angry with me that this was exactly why he didn't want to do this, and walked out of the room. He wasn't trying to be mean - he gave his honest answers to my question. And he had zero understanding of why his answers would upset me in the least.
1) Do you think I was justified in not liking his answers, or was I in the wrong?
2) Do you think someone with those answers actually loves and accepts the other person?
Where did you learn this was a bonding exercise?
Anonymous
10/31/2020 15:25
Subject: Need an outside perspective
Anonymous wrote:OP you were asking for him to say a loving affirmative word about how and why he loves you. You hid it under the “exercise” of both of you sharing things you love. He was honest but his frustration is likely because you prod him in other ways. What are you insecure about? Have the conversation with yourself privately, and then share what you learn with your husband when the time is right. And please apologize to him for being demanding and unaccepting of his reasons. You would have gotten much further if you asked “why does you value my ability to change so much?”. His answer may have surprised you: “because you’re resilient and encourage me, because I’m always excited, because I know we can make it through anything and I trust you, blah blah blah”. Instead you asked “what else”. You aren’t placing any meaning in your couples exercise because it is all about you picking for something instead of truly learning to peel back and love what you both are presenting to each other.
Bigger concerns are an undercurrent for sure but you can change the course with a shift in your thinking.
+1. I actually would have been interested in his answer about capacity to change because that’s not a throwaway answer. Do you remember when you were in school and the teacher would make it sound like there “wasn’t a right or wrong answer” but it was clear that there really was and no one felt like going thru performative theater so everyone stayed silent? You never asked your DH why he gave those answers you just decided they weren’t good without really listening to him. You also didn’t give him the reasons what you love about him or if you did, it was just to get to the part where he says what he loves about you. I don’t know the whole of your relationship but you said that you don’t feel heard or valued and instead of directly addressing that, you set up an exercise where you didn’t hear or value your DH. If your intention is really to be open and listen, use the advice in Stephen Covey’s 7 habits of highly effective people “Seek first to understand, then to be understood”.
Anonymous
10/31/2020 15:23
Subject: Re:Need an outside perspective
NP. I"m sorry there are so many jerks on this thread. People could have posted some of the thoughts above without having to insult you as "exhausting" or "needy," both of whihc are so often and so inappropriately used on DCUM that they mean nothing any more.
OP, your post about feeling your DH doesn't "see" you translates, to me, as he seems, to you, to have no interest in you as a person with a past, your own interests, etc. I would wager he doesn't ask you about your opinions of things (whether it's politics, the food you're both eating, the show you're watching, whatever) nor does he show any interest in what you're doing at work/hobbies/with the kids if any. If that is accurate...I agree that the place to start is individual therapy, ASAP. You need an objective third party to help you assess what you're really seeing from him and how you're reacting to it.
If he has always been like this, you may need to rethink what you expect from the relationship and why youd expect something he was never giving you even before marriage. If this is a change, and previously he showed interest in you as a person, then you need to figure out what might have caused the change.
While it's true many men are not great at expressing affection the way many women would like them to -- people can learn to do new things, and that includes learning to meet a spouse halfway in terms of meeting those needs. But yeah, you need to start unpacking this, especially your own needs and expectations and whether you or he has changed, by working with a professional yourself first.
You'll get more of the nasty "leave him alone, you're the problem" posts here, unfortunately. I'm not saying he's evil and you're perfect. But it's pretty hard to be in a relationship if what you want is a spouse who takes some interest in what interests you, or at least tries. If that's the issue you're talking about, think through why you married him, what is positive in the relationship, why you feel the need to do "bonding exercises" that end up in a dispute, etc. and whether this is a change.
OP, your post about feeling your DH doesn't "see" you translates, to me, as he seems, to you, to have no interest in you as a person with a past, your own interests, etc. I would wager he doesn't ask you about your opinions of things (whether it's politics, the food you're both eating, the show you're watching, whatever) nor does he show any interest in what you're doing at work/hobbies/with the kids if any. If that is accurate...I agree that the place to start is individual therapy, ASAP. You need an objective third party to help you assess what you're really seeing from him and how you're reacting to it.
If he has always been like this, you may need to rethink what you expect from the relationship and why youd expect something he was never giving you even before marriage. If this is a change, and previously he showed interest in you as a person, then you need to figure out what might have caused the change.
While it's true many men are not great at expressing affection the way many women would like them to -- people can learn to do new things, and that includes learning to meet a spouse halfway in terms of meeting those needs. But yeah, you need to start unpacking this, especially your own needs and expectations and whether you or he has changed, by working with a professional yourself first.
You'll get more of the nasty "leave him alone, you're the problem" posts here, unfortunately. I'm not saying he's evil and you're perfect. But it's pretty hard to be in a relationship if what you want is a spouse who takes some interest in what interests you, or at least tries. If that's the issue you're talking about, think through why you married him, what is positive in the relationship, why you feel the need to do "bonding exercises" that end up in a dispute, etc. and whether this is a change.
Anonymous
10/31/2020 14:57
Subject: Re:Need an outside perspective
He gave you honest answers that weren’t lovey dovey and now you’re angry at him. You sound insufferable. Men generally don’t express themselves very well when it comes to their emotions and he mentioned qualities that he admires rather than you make my heart go pitty pat. I know my husband loves me but I don’t expect he is going to write poetry about his love.
Anonymous
10/31/2020 13:46
Subject: Re:Need an outside perspective
It's possible he was trying to be mean. It sounds like malicious compliance. "I want you to be quiet and change in ways that suit me." You can't force someone to take an interest in you, btdt. The most you can do is pull away to the extent that they'll notice and do just enough to not lose you. Why keep trying with him when he'll never be the person you want?
Anonymous
10/31/2020 13:12
Subject: Need an outside perspective
You can't be mad that he was honest.
He sounds like he is not the most astute or articulate (like many men: they lack emotional intelligence).
I think the second thing is a compliment: meaning that you are adaptable, which is a really important quality in life. It helps you be resilient, which we all really need right now (its opposite can be rigidity or inability to pivot when the circumstances mandate that...)
The first may also be a sincere compliment, if he is thinking when he sees other wives that they are too chatty and is grateful that you are not.
I can see why those would not have been what you had hoped to hear though.
Write it off more as him not being good with words/feelings. It does not mean he does not love you.
Did you expect him to turn into a poet laureate?
Think of what attracted you to him. I suspect it was not his ability to express his feelings or be flowery and complimentary.
He sounds like he is not the most astute or articulate (like many men: they lack emotional intelligence).
I think the second thing is a compliment: meaning that you are adaptable, which is a really important quality in life. It helps you be resilient, which we all really need right now (its opposite can be rigidity or inability to pivot when the circumstances mandate that...)
The first may also be a sincere compliment, if he is thinking when he sees other wives that they are too chatty and is grateful that you are not.
I can see why those would not have been what you had hoped to hear though.
Write it off more as him not being good with words/feelings. It does not mean he does not love you.
Did you expect him to turn into a poet laureate?
Think of what attracted you to him. I suspect it was not his ability to express his feelings or be flowery and complimentary.
Anonymous
10/31/2020 13:09
Subject: Need an outside perspective
Anonymous wrote:On what I thought would be a bonding exercise for me and DH, I said we should share the qualities we love about each other the most. DH first refused to participate. But after some cajoling - he shared that the thing he loves about me the most was that I don't talk too much. I pressed him for another answer, because frankly I didn't like that first answer. Then after some thought, he said it was that it was my capacity to change. I didn't love that answer either, so then he got angry with me that this was exactly why he didn't want to do this, and walked out of the room. He wasn't trying to be mean - he gave his honest answers to my question. And he had zero understanding of why his answers would upset me in the least.
1) Do you think I was justified in not liking his answers, or was I in the wrong?
2) Do you think someone with those answers actually loves and accepts the other person?
Where you were in the wrong, was "cajoling" him into an activity he didn't want to play. It seems like you weren't being upfront about your needs. Then, when your weird game didn't satisfy your needs, which you didn't express coherently, you got mad. Bad strategy; bad results.