Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are relatively few facts.

There is a fair amount known from mostly Jewish sources. Scholars put together what they believe using their training and their best guesses.

Many things in the proto-Jewish sources have some factual elements to them (mitochondria dna supporting the existence of priests, for example).

But if you are looking for "the right" version of anything in history, you aren't going to find it. I think you are asking for more from this author than anyone can give you.

Not really -- the author was presenting other religions as myth and the Jewish religion as fact. And archeological evidence does exist that places Jews in Israel from the start and shows nothing supporting a migration from Egypt via the Red Sea and the desert.

Archeological evidence points to several people's living there.

Yes, including the Jews.

And here's no evidence of Jews living in Egypt, nothing found in the desert indicating time spent crossing or parting of the red sea, with any sign of dead egyptian soldiers' gear, when the sea supposedly enveloped them after Jehovah let the Jews across.

Tell us more
Jews as a people did not even exist, according to Judaism, at the time of Abraham

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are relatively few facts.

There is a fair amount known from mostly Jewish sources. Scholars put together what they believe using their training and their best guesses.

Many things in the proto-Jewish sources have some factual elements to them (mitochondria dna supporting the existence of priests, for example).

But if you are looking for "the right" version of anything in history, you aren't going to find it. I think you are asking for more from this author than anyone can give you.

Not really -- the author was presenting other religions as myth and the Jewish religion as fact. And archeological evidence does exist that places Jews in Israel from the start and shows nothing supporting a migration from Egypt via the Red Sea and the desert.

Archeological evidence points to several people's living there.

Yes, including the Jews.

And here's no evidence of Jews living in Egypt, nothing found in the desert indicating time spent crossing or parting of the red sea, with any sign of dead egyptian soldiers' gear, when the sea supposedly enveloped them after Jehovah let the Jews across.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are relatively few facts.

There is a fair amount known from mostly Jewish sources. Scholars put together what they believe using their training and their best guesses.

Many things in the proto-Jewish sources have some factual elements to them (mitochondria dna supporting the existence of priests, for example).

But if you are looking for "the right" version of anything in history, you aren't going to find it. I think you are asking for more from this author than anyone can give you.

Not really -- the author was presenting other religions as myth and the Jewish religion as fact. And archeological evidence does exist that places Jews in Israel from the start and shows nothing supporting a migration from Egypt via the Red Sea and the desert.

Archeological evidence points to several people's living there.

Anonymous wrote:There are relatively few facts.

There is a fair amount known from mostly Jewish sources. Scholars put together what they believe using their training and their best guesses.

Many things in the proto-Jewish sources have some factual elements to them (mitochondria dna supporting the existence of priests, for example).

But if you are looking for "the right" version of anything in history, you aren't going to find it. I think you are asking for more from this author than anyone can give you.

Not really -- the author was presenting other religions as myth and the Jewish religion as fact. And archeological evidence does exist that places Jews in Israel from the start and shows nothing supporting a migration from Egypt via the Red Sea and the desert.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Jewish people exist outside religious texts. We are an ethnoreligious group, meaning we have genetic ties to one another.

This is particularly true with Ashkenazi Jews, but is to a lesser extent true with Sephardic Jews as well.

Of course you can convert to Judaism and be part of the religion, but one is considered Jewish ethnically if one has Jewish ancestors, even if one is not at all religious.

Silly

What is silly about this?

Ancestor worship

I would call it ethnic, racial, nationalistic or class exclusivity. Lots of groups do it.

No, this time it is a deity

Certainly a conversion to Judaism won't change your DNA, but hang with us, and pick up the culture and there's nothing more to say about your 'membership in the tribe' so to speak. Certainly there are groups of Jews that disagree with this stance (and racists among us, too), but the mainstream accepts conversions and that's the discussion.

Also, Judaism isn't as similar to Christianity as what we see written above. You can very much be a Jew without going to shul - like my kid, for example is not observant at all right now, but his world view remains Jewish. We're just not that concerned with faith.

There are relatively few facts.

There is a fair amount known from mostly Jewish sources. Scholars put together what they believe using their training and their best guesses.

Many things in the proto-Jewish sources have some factual elements to them (mitochondria dna supporting the existence of priests, for example).

But if you are looking for "the right" version of anything in history, you aren't going to find it. I think you are asking for more from this author than anyone can give you.

Anonymous wrote:OP I love this thread and the historic suggestions on here. I always love to find a historic or ancient connection to parts of stories.

Good to hear -- I'm surprised there isn't more conversation here about the science-based historical/archeological roots of Judaism. Even "Secular" Jews like to think their stories are based to some extent on fact, but Jewish archeologists have found that the stories are just that - stories.

Of course, the stories of Jews being "God's chosen people" have certainly gotten them into trouble over the centuries -- but also eventually returned them a piece of land they call Israel centuries after God supposedly gave it to them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Jewish people exist outside religious texts. We are an ethnoreligious group, meaning we have genetic ties to one another.

This is particularly true with Ashkenazi Jews, but is to a lesser extent true with Sephardic Jews as well.

Of course you can convert to Judaism and be part of the religion, but one is considered Jewish ethnically if one has Jewish ancestors, even if one is not at all religious.

Silly

What is silly about this?

Ancestor worship

I would call it ethnic, racial, nationalistic or class exclusivity. Lots of groups do it.

No, this time it is a deity

OP I love this thread and the historic suggestions on here. I always love to find a historic or ancient connection to parts of stories.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Jewish people exist outside religious texts. We are an ethnoreligious group, meaning we have genetic ties to one another.

This is particularly true with Ashkenazi Jews, but is to a lesser extent true with Sephardic Jews as well.

Of course you can convert to Judaism and be part of the religion, but one is considered Jewish ethnically if one has Jewish ancestors, even if one is not at all religious.

Silly

What is silly about this?

Ancestor worship

I would call it ethnic, racial, nationalistic or class exclusivity. Lots of groups do it.

Like Germans

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Jewish people exist outside religious texts. We are an ethnoreligious group, meaning we have genetic ties to one another.

This is particularly true with Ashkenazi Jews, but is to a lesser extent true with Sephardic Jews as well.

Of course you can convert to Judaism and be part of the religion, but one is considered Jewish ethnically if one has Jewish ancestors, even if one is not at all religious.

Silly

What is silly about this?

Ancestor worship

I would call it ethnic, racial, nationalistic or class exclusivity. Lots of groups do it.

I’m not sure why you’re surprised OP.

All Abrahamic religions teach that they are fact. That they are historically the only ‘truth’.

Susan Wise Bauer is a staunch Christian. The roots of Christianity lie in Judaism. So all that has to be fact or the ‘truth’ of her religion would be false. It would become equal to the religions before that she portrays as myths and stories. And how would these religions (particularly Christianity and Islam) get converts then? What would justify going into indigenous populations on mission trips for conversion?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Jewish people exist outside religious texts. We are an ethnoreligious group, meaning we have genetic ties to one another.

This is particularly true with Ashkenazi Jews, but is to a lesser extent true with Sephardic Jews as well.

Of course you can convert to Judaism and be part of the religion, but one is considered Jewish ethnically if one has Jewish ancestors, even if one is not at all religious.

Silly

What is silly about this?

Ancestor worship

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Jewish people exist outside religious texts. We are an ethnoreligious group, meaning we have genetic ties to one another.

This is particularly true with Ashkenazi Jews, but is to a lesser extent true with Sephardic Jews as well.

Of course you can convert to Judaism and be part of the religion, but one is considered Jewish ethnically if one has Jewish ancestors, even if one is not at all religious.

Silly

What is silly about this?

Anonymous wrote:The Jewish people exist outside religious texts. We are an ethnoreligious group, meaning we have genetic ties to one another.

This is particularly true with Ashkenazi Jews, but is to a lesser extent true with Sephardic Jews as well.

Of course you can convert to Judaism and be part of the religion, but one is considered Jewish ethnically if one has Jewish ancestors, even if one is not at all religious.

Silly