Anonymous wrote:Though my three siblings and I had ongoing issues throughout issues our lives, we did vacations and holidays together consistently. Now two of them are dead and it's a bit sad. But with that said, I have tried to do things that one would think would keep siblings close, but I am sure that my son and daughter will not remain close as adults. They are teens now and have just never tolerated each other. So, I am parenting and loving them as best I can, while also maintaining a life for myself. I think a lot of toxicity toward parens and in-laws on this board come because parents cannot remove themselves from their adult children's lives. They have wrapped their entire identities around their children and see a future only with them always in it. You need to look to a future that is about your own life. And it will hopefully be filled with some bonus time with your kids in and out of it--whatever that looks like.

+1

This is what I'm doing as well. I'd love to be a part of my children's lives when they are adults, but it's not healthy for them if they are the only facet of my life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See a therapist, make sure you are in a good place emotionally as you raise your kids. I worry about this too but I think the "I would die" language is concerning. Use firm but positive parenting strategies. Focus on having good communication as a family. If anyone in the family is struggling get help.

Some siblings will have conflict no matter what you do, but most families like this (including mine) have trauma that makes it hard for us to be around each other.

OP here and that’s what gets me...we DONT have any trauma, thank God. Our parents are still married. We grew up white, middle class. No abuse, drugs. My siblings just hate each other. We don’t spend holidays together. It’s...bizarre.

As for the “I would die”...perhaps that’s extreme, but family is SO important to me. Even growing up I knew my family wasn’t close like other families. I didn’t have grandparents or cousins and I desperately wanted them. So yes, I’ll be upset if my children don’t speak to each other. I’ll be upset if we don’t gather around the table...ever.

I just can’t believe sometimes that I’ll probably never see my siblings again at the same time, until my parents funeral. That’s grim.

OP, not trying to be rude at all but there's no way to share my observations without coming across that way. Your language, the way you speak and share your views sounds very emotionally immature. I think you should see a therapist to understand your past and work on your current parenting since that's important to you. I think there are issues there, you just don't see them. That's how inter-generational dysfunction works. Also concerning you mention "genes." There aren't genes that cause you to be estranged from family. It's trauma and learned behaviors. Unrelated but also odd you mention "white" as a factor that should lead to a conflict free upbringing. There is dysfunction in every ethnicity. Wish you luck.

Did your parents make you guys compete against one another? Compare you? (Why cant you be more like your brother? Susan is the smart one, but Beth is the pretty one?) Was there a shortage of resources or attention that made you feel like you had to compete?

We had all that and I have very consciously worked to not compare my kids or make them compete. Our family motto is 'we are all on the same team' and we work to support one another. Last summer my daughter had to go to summer school to take a language class that she failed in college and her younger brother who is great at foreign languages asked if we would pay for him to take it too so they could study together. One of my proudest moments as a parent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have personal experience with this so just speculating (my brother and I live too far from each other to see each other often, but we are happy to see each other during holidays and send each other texts and kid pictures occasionally), but wouldn’t this pressure re “WE ARE FAMILY, WE MUST BE CLOSE” backfire and do the opposite? I love my family and love seeing them because I enjoy spending time with them - no one guilt trips me into it...

This -- trying to force closeness can really backfire. It needs to feel genuine and voluntary. If I can't come home for a holiday, and my family says, "Oh, too bad you can't make it; we were looking forward to [fun holiday activity] with you. We'll really miss you! Hope we can see you at [next holiday]!" that makes me feel good. If they dump a huge guilt trip on me, and turn up the pressure, and complain about it every time I talk to them, I'm going to feel LESS motivated to see them.

YES. My mom is very "go with it". If we can't come to something she just says "ok, that's fine, we'll miss you!" and moves on. My MIL on the other hand throws up the hysteria with things like "oh you don't have time for your family now?" or other massive guilt trips. Guess who is WAY EASIER AND MORE FUN to be with when we do get together?!

I think parenting is a balance. Of course I hope my kids love and enjoy each other for their whole lives long! But it's not always that simple.

I hope I can do what's reasonable to encourage their relationship. But at some point, you have to let go a bit and let them take the reins of their own relationships.

As the parent, laying on guilt for them not being as close as YOU hope them to be is not productive at all. That's an important thing to realize.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have personal experience with this so just speculating (my brother and I live too far from each other to see each other often, but we are happy to see each other during holidays and send each other texts and kid pictures occasionally), but wouldn’t this pressure re “WE ARE FAMILY, WE MUST BE CLOSE” backfire and do the opposite? I love my family and love seeing them because I enjoy spending time with them - no one guilt trips me into it...

This -- trying to force closeness can really backfire. It needs to feel genuine and voluntary. If I can't come home for a holiday, and my family says, "Oh, too bad you can't make it; we were looking forward to [fun holiday activity] with you. We'll really miss you! Hope we can see you at [next holiday]!" that makes me feel good. If they dump a huge guilt trip on me, and turn up the pressure, and complain about it every time I talk to them, I'm going to feel LESS motivated to see them.

Though my three siblings and I had ongoing issues throughout issues our lives, we did vacations and holidays together consistently. Now two of them are dead and it's a bit sad. But with that said, I have tried to do things that one would think would keep siblings close, but I am sure that my son and daughter will not remain close as adults. They are teens now and have just never tolerated each other. So, I am parenting and loving them as best I can, while also maintaining a life for myself. I think a lot of toxicity toward parens and in-laws on this board come because parents cannot remove themselves from their adult children's lives. They have wrapped their entire identities around their children and see a future only with them always in it. You need to look to a future that is about your own life. And it will hopefully be filled with some bonus time with your kids in and out of it--whatever that looks like.

I don’t have personal experience with this so just speculating (my brother and I live too far from each other to see each other often, but we are happy to see each other during holidays and send each other texts and kid pictures occasionally), but wouldn’t this pressure re “WE ARE FAMILY, WE MUST BE CLOSE” backfire and do the opposite? I love my family and love seeing them because I enjoy spending time with them - no one guilt trips me into it...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP close families are a novelty, not the norm. Many siblings do not get along and the reason is not always trauma or abuse, often its temperamental. If you met your siblings as a stranger, as an adult its highly likely they'd have traits that either annoyed you or were just uninteresting to you.

It happens. Being uptight around your kids and insisting they get along is not going to help them in the longer term.

Accepting what things are like and being positive within your own family unit is the best you can do. Good luck.

OP here and I find it hard to believe that there is nothing I can do, as the opposite is true and plays out: there are things you can do to cause wedges.

My sister and I do not have any grievances towards each other. We just don’t like each other. We are very different and whereas I could set that aside and allow our kids to grow up together, she cannot for some reason.

Assuming that you are correct, and there is no grievance, then she doesn't want to spend a lot of time with someone she doesn't like, who doesn't like her. That could be the reason. She has limited time and energy, and she is likely choosing to spend time with people she likes, because it's more pleasant than spending it with people she doesn't. Perhaps it's family on her husband's side, perhaps it's neighbors or old friends.

Also, it is hard to break habits. If you were not close as children or teens or young adults, you aren't suddenly going to be close because you have kids.

If you want to break this pattern, you might consider therapy to see if there are unconscious behaviors or assumptions that are preventing closeness with your siblings. And you should look at how you parent your own kids. Are they temperamentally compatible? Do you treat them fairly (if not exactly the same) or do you play favorites? Do you compare them to each other, encourage them to compete, etc.? Or do you encourage cooperation, and evaluate their strengths and weaknesses on their own merits? I think that you can foster sibling closeness by treating kids fairly, but you can't do much about personalities. Forcing them to be close or pressuring them to be best friends isn't helpful, but looking for the things they have in common and encouraging those can help build connections.

If you want to change bad generational patterns, the only answer is individual therapy. A therapist can help you to see things you are missing in your actions with others. For example, you say people cause wedges, but you also say your that you and your sister don't have any grievances. Sorry but that can't be true. Those differences between you and your sister have to have manifested themselves in your interactions over your lives - and obviously those actions have alienated your sibling. That doesn't make this all your fault of course! But it does mean that you have contributed and are not quite recognizing those actions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you need a therapist to understand YOUR role in all of this. Yes your role. I have a relative who doesn’t understand why I refuse to be around my sister. I’ve tried telling her, actually, several times - it’s because my sister abused me - but she always shuts me down and says she “doesnt want to hear it” and “doesnt want to get involved.” Rather than make my relative innocent in and removed from all this, it actually makes her complicit in my abuse.

I understand not wanting to repeatedly answer the question of why you don't want to interact with your sister when it was asked and answered, but beyond that your relative doesn't have a role to play here.

Yes, the relative does. Because silence and ignoring always benefits the bully/abuser.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe there's something going on or that happened in the past that you don't know about.

+1.

Anonymous wrote:OP you need a therapist to understand YOUR role in all of this. Yes your role. I have a relative who doesn’t understand why I refuse to be around my sister. I’ve tried telling her, actually, several times - it’s because my sister abused me - but she always shuts me down and says she “doesnt want to hear it” and “doesnt want to get involved.” Rather than make my relative innocent in and removed from all this, it actually makes her complicit in my abuse.

I understand not wanting to repeatedly answer the question of why you don't want to interact with your sister when it was asked and answered, but beyond that your relative doesn't have a role to play here.

Personalities can be very different and while we can avoid personalities with random people we meet, we cannot with our relatives. And sometimes those personalities are too hurtful when coming from family.

I wish I had a stronger bond with my sister. I’ve tried multiple times throughout my life. Always putting aside my feelings and biting my tongue. But at some point it creeps into the territory of abuse. I’ve had to walk on eggshells around her my whole life.

You get to a point of self preservation. It’s sad, but it is what it is.

Anonymous wrote:I could be writing this. We eat dinner together every night, do activities as a family, and encourage our kids to help their siblings without being asked. I hope it works.

As we speak, my 13 year old son and 9 year old son are playing zombies.