Anonymous
10/23/2020 23:34
Subject: Re:SF and Boston votes on changing admissions criteria for magnet schools this week
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Why 20%?
Do you want to allot 80% of doctors, writers, mathematicians, physicists... by zip code?
Sorry. Long quote. Here it is again.
Because most people won’t be in the top 20% and everybody understands that. So, most kids in the class will get in by lottery. It will cut down on the whispering. At the same time, 20% is broad enough to capture the brilliant, incandescent kids. Because it is by zip,code, there’s some hope for economic diversity, at least this year. It’s miles better than a straight lottery. The one downfall is all the pushy parents who will be mobbing the teachers, angling to get their kids ranked higher than their best friend. They will need to institute major protections.
This is another way to come close to what MCPS has done by dividing their schools into three SES groups and ranking student magnet test scores against only the students within their Similar SES Set of MCPS schools. Except you just compete in your zip code.
Boston's Chinatown's zip code 02111 is one of the poorest zip codes in the city of Boston, with a median household income of $40,870 per year.
They normally send about 25 kids per year to the Exam Schools, these poor restaurant workers and new immigrants who don't speak English. Using the new rules, without exam and with allocation by zip code, they will send about 7-8, one third of their normal total.
Why do they use zip code in Boston? Why don't they simply give advantage to families in poverty?
I'll tell you why.
If they give advantage to poor people, they will get more poor Asians from Chinatown.
Asians are concentrated in a small number of zip codes. When they allocate by zip code, they will force the Asians to compete with each other. They use zip code to limit the number of Asians admitted.
They ran simulations behind closed doors (they said so in the meeting). Their only goal is proportional representation by skin color.
Don't tell me this is to achieve geographic parity.
Don't tell me this is equity.
We are not that stupid.
Anonymous
10/23/2020 23:14
Subject: SF and Boston votes on changing admissions criteria for magnet schools this week
Ugh. That last paragraph wasn’t me.
Anonymous
10/23/2020 23:12
Subject: Re:SF and Boston votes on changing admissions criteria for magnet schools this week
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Why 20%?
Do you want to allot 80% of doctors, writers, mathematicians, physicists... by zip code?
Sorry. Long quote. Here it is again.
Because most people won’t be in the top 20% and everybody understands that. So, most kids in the class will get in by lottery. It will cut down on the whispering. At the same time, 20% is broad enough to capture the brilliant, incandescent kids. Because it is by zip,code, there’s some hope for economic diversity, at least this year. It’s miles better than a straight lottery. The one downfall is all the pushy parents who will be mobbing the teachers, angling to get their kids ranked higher than their best friend. They will need to institute major protections.
This is another way to come close to what MCPS has done by dividing their schools into three SES groups and ranking student magnet test scores against only the students within their Similar SES Set of MCPS schools. Except you just compete in your zip code.
Anonymous
10/23/2020 23:11
Subject: Re:SF and Boston votes on changing admissions criteria for magnet schools this week
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The Boston model is interesting.
1) Rank all students based on admission criteria. Since there are multiple exam schools, students also rank their first choice school.
2) For the first 20% of the seats, offer admission to the top ranking students. (Caveat: If a student in the top 20% overall chose school A, but wasn't in the top 20% of students who chose school A, they would not be offered admission in this round, but would go back in the pool for the next round.)
3) Group the remaining 80% of students by zip code. Allocate seats for each zip code proportional to the number of enrolled students in that zip code. Offer admission based on top ranking students in the zip code.
That sounds great.
Yes, this sounds reasonable. A lot more intelligent than the stupid lottery proposed by stupid Brabrand.
Because most people won’t be in the top 20% and everybody understands that. So, most kids in the class will get in by lottery. It will cut down on the whispering. At the same time, 20% is broad enough to capture the brilliant, incandescent kids. Because it is by zip,code, there’s some hope for economic diversity, at least this year. It’s miles better than a straight lottery. The one downfall is all the pushy parents who will be mobbing the teachers, angling to get their kids ranked higher than their best friend. They will need to institute major protections.
This is another way to come close to what MCPS has done by dividing their schools into three SES groups and ranking student magnet test scores against only the students within their Similar SES Set of MCPS schools. Except you just compete in your zip code.
The problem with the MCPS system is the use of the cloudy "peer cohort" criteria to exclude groups of students.
The Boston solution is better. Clear and transparent.
Using zip code to force Chinese American students in Boston's Chinatown to compete against each other. Brilliant idea for race norming.
Boston's system still allows in the top 20% from anywhere. Then the remaining 80% get a chance based by district. I think it's reasonable.
It's based on merit. You still have a chance to earn your spot. It's clear and transparent.
Why 20%?
Do you want to allot 80% of doctors, writers, mathematicians, physicists... by zip code?
Anonymous
10/23/2020 09:26
Subject: Re:SF and Boston votes on changing admissions criteria for magnet schools this week
Boston's mayor Walsh spoke at the beginning of the meeting to support the change. Boston's School Committee (their BOE) members are all appointed by the Mayor.
Walsh is trying to get a cabinet position in the future Biden-Harris administration. This paves the way.
Walsh is trying to get a cabinet position in the future Biden-Harris administration. This paves the way.
Anonymous
10/22/2020 20:59
Subject: Re:SF and Boston votes on changing admissions criteria for magnet schools this week
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:https://www.wbur.org/edify/2020/10/22/loconto-mocking-resigns
TBH this ... made me chuckle (sorry Asian american here) but you get it right.
It's pretty much the same everywhere.
He managed to make fun of African Americans and Asian Americans at the same time.
Would he mock the way poor black and brown people speak, I wonder.
He mocks African American and Asian American names.
Anonymous
10/22/2020 20:57
Subject: Re:SF and Boston votes on changing admissions criteria for magnet schools this week
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:https://www.wbur.org/edify/2020/10/22/loconto-mocking-resigns
TBH this ... made me chuckle (sorry Asian american here) but you get it right.
It's pretty much the same everywhere.
He managed to make fun of African Americans and Asian Americans at the same time.
Would he mock the way poor black and brown people speak, I wonder.
Anonymous
10/22/2020 20:45
Subject: Re:SF and Boston votes on changing admissions criteria for magnet schools this week
Anonymous wrote:https://www.wbur.org/edify/2020/10/22/loconto-mocking-resigns
TBH this ... made me chuckle (sorry Asian american here) but you get it right.
It's pretty much the same everywhere.
He managed to make fun of African Americans and Asian Americans at the same time.
Anonymous
10/22/2020 17:22
Subject: Re:SF and Boston votes on changing admissions criteria for magnet schools this week
https://www.wbur.org/edify/2020/10/22/loconto-mocking-resigns
TBH this ... made me chuckle (sorry Asian american here) but you get it right.
It's pretty much the same everywhere.
TBH this ... made me chuckle (sorry Asian american here) but you get it right.
It's pretty much the same everywhere.
Anonymous
10/22/2020 13:20
Subject: SF and Boston votes on changing admissions criteria for magnet schools this week
Anonymous wrote:The Boston School Committee voted unanimously early this morning to suspend the use of an exam to decide who gets into the city's three exam schools for the next year because of a raft of problems brought up by the Covid-19 pandemic, in a meeting that lasted more than 8 1/2 hours.
The committee approved a system in which the first 20% of seats at Boston Latin School, Boston Latin Academy and the O'Bryant School of Mathematics are offered to Boston students with the highest pre-Covid grades in BPS, charter, private and religious schools. The remaining 80% would be offered in rounds based on grades in individual Zip codes, starting with those Zip codes with the lowest median incomes for families with at least one child under 18 - an effort to help low-income students whose families have been hit particularly hard by Covid-19.
Grades .ne. Intellectual Capacity (g). A student with good grades is by definition succeeding in their school, though perhaps not reaching their full potential.
Technology today means that public schools really should move to a cost-effective industrial school for students in the fat middle ground of performance, plus being educator of last resort for the most difficult students. Everyone else should be able to take their public education funds and seek to answer their own student's special needs in a liberal market of educators, tutors, online courses, and childcare providers.
Vouchers. Very liberal vouchers, with annual "proof of progress".
Anonymous
10/22/2020 09:21
Subject: SF and Boston votes on changing admissions criteria for magnet schools this week
The Boston School Committee voted unanimously early this morning to suspend the use of an exam to decide who gets into the city's three exam schools for the next year because of a raft of problems brought up by the Covid-19 pandemic, in a meeting that lasted more than 8 1/2 hours.
The committee approved a system in which the first 20% of seats at Boston Latin School, Boston Latin Academy and the O'Bryant School of Mathematics are offered to Boston students with the highest pre-Covid grades in BPS, charter, private and religious schools. The remaining 80% would be offered in rounds based on grades in individual Zip codes, starting with those Zip codes with the lowest median incomes for families with at least one child under 18 - an effort to help low-income students whose families have been hit particularly hard by Covid-19.
The committee approved a system in which the first 20% of seats at Boston Latin School, Boston Latin Academy and the O'Bryant School of Mathematics are offered to Boston students with the highest pre-Covid grades in BPS, charter, private and religious schools. The remaining 80% would be offered in rounds based on grades in individual Zip codes, starting with those Zip codes with the lowest median incomes for families with at least one child under 18 - an effort to help low-income students whose families have been hit particularly hard by Covid-19.
Anonymous
10/21/2020 16:49
Subject: Re:SF and Boston votes on changing admissions criteria for magnet schools this week
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The Boston model is interesting.
1) Rank all students based on admission criteria. Since there are multiple exam schools, students also rank their first choice school.
2) For the first 20% of the seats, offer admission to the top ranking students. (Caveat: If a student in the top 20% overall chose school A, but wasn't in the top 20% of students who chose school A, they would not be offered admission in this round, but would go back in the pool for the next round.)
3) Group the remaining 80% of students by zip code. Allocate seats for each zip code proportional to the number of enrolled students in that zip code. Offer admission based on top ranking students in the zip code.
That sounds great.
Yes, this sounds reasonable. A lot more intelligent than the stupid lottery proposed by stupid Brabrand.
This is another way to come close to what MCPS has done by dividing their schools into three SES groups and ranking student magnet test scores against only the students within their Similar SES Set of MCPS schools. Except you just compete in your zip code.
The problem with the MCPS system is the use of the cloudy "peer cohort" criteria to exclude groups of students.
The Boston solution is better. Clear and transparent.
Using zip code to force Chinese American students in Boston's Chinatown to compete against each other. Brilliant idea for race norming.
Boston's system still allows in the top 20% from anywhere. Then the remaining 80% get a chance based by district. I think it's reasonable.
It's based on merit. You still have a chance to earn your spot. It's clear and transparent.
Why 20%?
Do you want to allot 80% of doctors, writers, mathematicians, physicists... by zip code?
Because many people who did not attend STEM Magnet schools or magnet schools for the gifted become doctors, writers, mathematicians, physicists. I earned a PhD and a good number of the people I went to school with would not have landed at the Magnet schools that we are discussing and yet most of my cohort have earned tenure and served as Department Chairs in their respective fields. I have worked with legit rocket scientists and I have no clue if they would have attended STEM Magnet schools or not.
Parents are putting way too much weight on these schools and what type of trajectory their kids are being launched on because they attend these schools. In the same way that many people put too much weight on their kids getting into the Ivies. There are lots of people who are very successful and end up as engineers or doctors or mathematicians or what ever field you think requires this type of pressure who attend regular high schools, state colleges that are not the flagships, or even small liberal arts colleges.
Kids can be very successful without being seen as young geniuses and going to TJ or Harvard or Princeton or Yale. I know that there are people on this board who refuse to believe this, but it is possible.
Anonymous
10/21/2020 16:06
Subject: Re:SF and Boston votes on changing admissions criteria for magnet schools this week
Anonymous wrote:
Do you want to allot 80% of doctors, writers, mathematicians, physicists... by zip code?
Be honest. Most doctors, mathematicians, and physicists don't have to be all that smart, just above average. We all benefit if the *smartest* people get sorted into positions that benefit humanity, but being a GP or even an oncologist, surgeon, mathematician, etc. is mostly about being *smart enough* and working hard for a long time with no immediate reward - which is often a function of family support.
Anonymous
10/21/2020 14:28
Subject: Re:SF and Boston votes on changing admissions criteria for magnet schools this week
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The Boston model is interesting.
1) Rank all students based on admission criteria. Since there are multiple exam schools, students also rank their first choice school.
2) For the first 20% of the seats, offer admission to the top ranking students. (Caveat: If a student in the top 20% overall chose school A, but wasn't in the top 20% of students who chose school A, they would not be offered admission in this round, but would go back in the pool for the next round.)
3) Group the remaining 80% of students by zip code. Allocate seats for each zip code proportional to the number of enrolled students in that zip code. Offer admission based on top ranking students in the zip code.
That sounds great.
Yes, this sounds reasonable. A lot more intelligent than the stupid lottery proposed by stupid Brabrand.
This is another way to come close to what MCPS has done by dividing their schools into three SES groups and ranking student magnet test scores against only the students within their Similar SES Set of MCPS schools. Except you just compete in your zip code.
The problem with the MCPS system is the use of the cloudy "peer cohort" criteria to exclude groups of students.
The Boston solution is better. Clear and transparent.
Using zip code to force Chinese American students in Boston's Chinatown to compete against each other. Brilliant idea for race norming.
Boston's system still allows in the top 20% from anywhere. Then the remaining 80% get a chance based by district. I think it's reasonable.
It's based on merit. You still have a chance to earn your spot. It's clear and transparent.
Why 20%?
Do you want to allot 80% of doctors, writers, mathematicians, physicists... by zip code?
People are just going to game the system by moving to a different zip code. There should just be a transparent objective test, GPA requirement, teacher recs and essay. Everyone gets a cumulative score. Everyone above a certain score gets put into a lottery. Randomly pick from the pool of the most qualified kids. Done.
That's basically what they are going to do
There will be URM and FARMS plusups to get more of them in the pool similar to the racial and/or veteran plusups used by the federal government
The Quantitative essay is taking the place of the test
so high performing kids will move into low performing schools and you think the school board or school leadership would see that as a negative? It's basically voluntary bussing