It makes me sad too. As I get older (I’m 41), I have learned that I have fewer true friends than I thought. I can only think of two female friends who I think really root for me (and I for them).

I do think it helps to form friendships with people who are different than you. The most competitive friend group I’ve ever encountered (to a point that I just had to leave it because it got me so anxious and down) was a group of same age women I met doing the same hobby. We all got married within a few years of each other. We had similar jobs and similar goals and the competition and jealousy was intense. It was, not coincidentally, also the most gossipy friend group I’ve had. Just a really combustible combination. And one if the more disturbing things to me was that there was definitely a hierarchy, and your place in the hierarchy was driven by how enviable your life was. I know this because I started out near the top but didn’t realize it. Then I had a mental health issue and wound up quitting my job for a bit to recover. I thought my friends would rally around me. Instead, it’s like I lost my allure because I no longer had some of the things they used envy. I became the person who was accidentally left out of plans. It was rough. Even once I went back to work and was doing a lot better, I could feel it. I also felt certain those women had talked about my mental health stuff when I wasn’t around and my suspicion is that it wasn’t all terribly empathetic. It was really sad to me. Those women were at my wedding and a huge part of my life for years. But I never shook the sense that our friendship was based on something messed up. Competition is really toxic. I faded out. I still feel sad about, even if I know it was the right choice for me.

Anyway, you’re not alone. This definitely happens.

Bumping this old thread, largely because I’ve seen this among my friend group now at 38.

At 24, everyone was largely living the same post college, pre grad school life. At 35-40? Now that weddings, honeymoons, babies, houses, cars, school have come into the mix? I’m definitely sensing some competition among my friends and it sucks. Not everyone, but definitely some. It’s almost this, Oh I’m so successful, I make so much, I have such a good marriage blah blah blah. It makes me sad - friendships I cherished but now feel overly competitive. How are others dealing? Me and OP can’t be the only ones.

OP here.

I am skeptical of anyone who says that none of their friends ever do this. I think sometimes friends can go through good times where there isn't much competition and where people get along well. But if you have women friends for a long time, I think you inevitably hit patches where rivalry comes up. Again, I've seen it in friends from every era of my life at some point or another. I'll be rolling along great in a friendship and then something will shift -- someone starts a new relationship, work gets stressful, someone's marriage is on the rocks, etc. -- and dynamics change. I am struggling to think of a single female friendship I've had that hasn't had a phase like this.

I'm not saying women are naturally competitive or that all my friends are always insecure and jealous. Far from it -- I love these women. They are funny, accomplished, kind, interesting. But this dynamic always comes up eventually. It is particularly present in my life right now. I wonder if it is a mid-life crisis thing. Most of the women I know are late 30s, early 40s, and I see a lot of people assessing where they are at in life and sometimes lashing out, and other times getting smug. They are both ugly behaviors.

I also don't know if this is unique to women. But I'm a woman and while I have friends with people of all genders, I only notice these dynamics in my female friendships.

Anonymous wrote:I feel like you live in the wrong place or have the wrong friends or maybe both. Perhaps you are competitive yourself and that's why you attract like-minded people? None of my friends are like this. If they were, I would not be friends with them anymore, because ain't nobody got time to deal with that.

+1

This is what I think - the area that OP lives in attracts insecure women who have few or no hobbies, sadly. I have one or two places in mind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude, do you get that men have literally started wars to compete with family and friends? Stop acting like only women do this. Men still out here killing friends aver video games. A son recent,y killed his dad in a fight that started over $5.

which war?

Look into the Wars of the Roses. After Edward IV took the throne by force, his brothers George and (to a lesser degree) Richard were not content with ducal titles and immense wealth and favor. George took arms against his brother in vain several time with their FRIEND and mentor, Warwick. It was all about jealousy and competition.

It's wild to me that you don't know about Richard III at least. Read any Shakespeare?!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get new friends?

I don't even know what you're talking about, OP.

What do you compete about?!? My friends and I don't do this. We support each other. We dress differently, operate on different incomes, parent differently, come from different parts of the world, some of us go to church, some of us don't, some of us work, some of us don't, and yet... we like and support one another.

You must be in my circle of friends! I cannot relate to the OP's experience.

Me, too. And anyone insecure who enters my orbit doesn’t stay very long if there is anything but support in our relationship.

IME, sometimes the jealousy and insecurity doesn’t show it’s ugly head until years later, or some sort of change in life circumstance pops up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get new friends?

I don't even know what you're talking about, OP.

What do you compete about?!? My friends and I don't do this. We support each other. We dress differently, operate on different incomes, parent differently, come from different parts of the world, some of us go to church, some of us don't, some of us work, some of us don't, and yet... we like and support one another.

You must be in my circle of friends! I cannot relate to the OP's experience.

Me, too. And anyone insecure who enters my orbit doesn’t stay very long if there is anything but support in our relationship.

+1

I think the problem comes when the friend group isn't diversified, and there inevitably is some "keeping up with the Joneses", even thought hey don't call it that. When people try to be too much alike (again, whether or not they admit it) - it just doesn't work. Some people dont know how to relate to people who are too different from them, and that is part of their insecurity.

Anonymous wrote:Because they aren't friends. Friends don't compete.

+1

Find real people who are friends, OP - not insecure, judgy fake people. Real people can be happy for each other. Sure, there is sometimes envy, but healthy people know to own their envy - not spew toxic venom about those that are allegedly their "friends". If you hang out with people who gossip, they gossip about you, too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get new friends?

I don't even know what you're talking about, OP.

What do you compete about?!? My friends and I don't do this. We support each other. We dress differently, operate on different incomes, parent differently, come from different parts of the world, some of us go to church, some of us don't, some of us work, some of us don't, and yet... we like and support one another.

You must be in my circle of friends! I cannot relate to the OP's experience.

Me, too. And anyone insecure who enters my orbit doesn’t stay very long if there is anything but support in our relationship.

Anonymous wrote:Get new friends?

I don't even know what you're talking about, OP.

What do you compete about?!? My friends and I don't do this. We support each other. We dress differently, operate on different incomes, parent differently, come from different parts of the world, some of us go to church, some of us don't, some of us work, some of us don't, and yet... we like and support one another.

NP. I’d argue that you’re either not that close with these women, or you’re oblivious to these dynamics, or you’re generally viewed as non-threatening by other women (not particularly successful professionally, or not particularly attractive, or whatever).

I feel like you live in the wrong place or have the wrong friends or maybe both. Perhaps you are competitive yourself and that's why you attract like-minded people? None of my friends are like this. If they were, I would not be friends with them anymore, because ain't nobody got time to deal with that.

I think the issue is intentionality.

Some people reflexively believe others have ill intentions and interpret their comments in the worst light possible, while others take comments at face value and don't assume.

I am part of the latter group. I hope others take my comments at face value, because I certainly mean them that way, and I extend the same courtesy to others. This allows my group of friends to discuss income, career, health, kids, in-laws, without being jealous or feeling competitive. It's so much easier to go through life that way...

Anonymous wrote:Men do this too, OP. We are just socialized not to notice it, or call it healthy, or leadership or whatever.

I disagree. I know men can be competitive, but I've never encountered men engaged in the kind of competitive friendships that OP is describing. I do think this is something specific to women -- competing specifically with your friends, as though only one of you can "win", instead of cheering each other on.

Just anecdotally, my husband has plenty of people he doesn't like, but he doesn't hang out with them or call them friends. Like he has one coworker that is kind of a rival and he complains about him all the time, but they don't go get drinks together (in non-Covid times, obviously) and our families don't get together. But women will absolutely choose to socialize with other women that they actively don't like. It's weird and it is a woman thing.

Anonymous wrote:The competition that annoys me the most is when it's related to comparisons of children. That is hands down the quickest way to get me to cut a friend off. Children are off limits. If your insecurities run so deep that you need to compare kids, I will see you to the door with a quickness.

Agreed, but sometimes it is subtle. I think that's the problem with a lot of competition among women. It's not the way it gets portrayed in the media -- it's usually not overt or obvious. It's a series of carefully phrased comments that get under your skin over time. And it's hard to say anything about, because if you call them out, they can always say "Oh, I didn't mean it that way." But she did.

I don't think it's all women, and that even women who do this don't do it all the time or with everyone. But I do think some women have a specific way of pissing on their territory that is especially frustrating. I sometimes wish a woman would just come out and say "I don't like you" rather than claiming to love me while always trying to top every story I tell or making little comments about my husband or kids that aren't exactly critical... but aren't supportive either. It's death by paper cut and I hate it.

I feel like I'm getting better at spotting women like this earlier on in a friendship and just choosing not to get close. But when I was younger, I would often not catch on until I was drawn into these weird frenemy relationships and then there would be drama when I tried to extract myself. But I think it's a specific personality that does this kind of thing -- very insecure women who need to assert dominance over other women in order to feel confident in themselves. It's... not great!

Men do this too, OP. We are just socialized not to notice it, or call it healthy, or leadership or whatever.