Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:33     Subject: Re:Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
Meh, i come from my own perspective that unless she has a satisfying job, i see nothing successful about a woman with babies who got married to a nice guy. Because i'm not sure how any of that is an accomplishment.

Woman with nice husband, kids and good job? success!

Woman with no husband or kids, but good job, and she is happy with her life? Success!

Woman with nice husband and kids, who piddles around with zumba and the PTA? I mean, she hasn't "achieved" anything, so i'd call that a neutral.

Woman with husband, kids and job or no job, who's not happy? Not a success.
Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:32     Subject: Re:Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
Anonymous wrote:I believe having a good marriage and well adjusted kids is a barometer of success given how many bad marriages there are along with tons of screwed up kids. To make both of those things happen requires a lot of effort.


It’s not just effort. Lots of wonderful, devoted parents have kids with mental illness or other struggles that don’t reflect a lack of effort.
Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:26     Subject: Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I admit, whenever I see a woman married to a "good guy" and by that I mean, someone desirable and high quality with good character, well respected and an overall decent guy, I am envious. It is challenging to meet and date these types of guys so if she is one who manages to get and settle down with one, I consider it an accomplishment. Having 1 or 2 well adjusted kids rates her success even higher.

I do not think it is an accomplishment to marry or procreate with low quality guys. I guess its biology. Women choose to mate with the highest quality man possible. Those who can are winners.


It's not hard if you meet and settle down right after college or before late twenties.


This is true. In my observation, these guys are the first to exit the dating scene and marry college GFs or the girls they meet upon graduation. I also suspect the longer someone has been in the dating pool, the more damaged or broken they are.


+ 1

The longest and best marriages I know of started off dating in college.


Yep! I saw DH and could in no way pass him by. I wasn't ready to settle down yet (I wanted to travel and live out my 20s), but he was the best man I'd ever met. Still is. We married at 25 and I did live out my 20s. I still traveled with girlfriends and had adventures. I would say that we have one of the best marriages I know.

The good guys definitely get taken first.

Having a happy marriage and family is ONE barometer of success. So is being a high powered career. There are many paths to success.


What about him makes him "the best man"?
Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:26     Subject: Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by “desirable”? Are you referring to superficial measures of success, like wealth and status? Or are you referring to character, integrity, the capacity for a healthy relationship, even in the absence of those superficial measures? Like a low-earning teacher or social worker of good character who loves and adores his wife? Do you value the latter in the same way?


OP here. I think I mean a bit of both. A "desirable" guy in my definition is:

- Someone with good character and great sense of moral compass
- Family oriented
- Comes from a "nice" family
- Responsible and ambitious

You know them when you meet them. They are not shady or sketchy. Just clean, decent and upstanding men.

They run in all socioeconomic circles.
Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:25     Subject: Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I admit, whenever I see a woman married to a "good guy" and by that I mean, someone desirable and high quality with good character, well respected and an overall decent guy, I am envious. It is challenging to meet and date these types of guys so if she is one who manages to get and settle down with one, I consider it an accomplishment. Having 1 or 2 well adjusted kids rates her success even higher.

I do not think it is an accomplishment to marry or procreate with low quality guys. I guess its biology. Women choose to mate with the highest quality man possible. Those who can are winners.


It's not hard if you meet and settle down right after college or before late twenties.


This is true. In my observation, these guys are the first to exit the dating scene and marry college GFs or the girls they meet upon graduation. I also suspect the longer someone has been in the dating pool, the more damaged or broken they are.


+ 1

The longest and best marriages I know of started off dating in college.


Yep! I saw DH and could in no way pass him by. I wasn't ready to settle down yet (I wanted to travel and live out my 20s), but he was the best man I'd ever met. Still is. We married at 25 and I did live out my 20s. I still traveled with girlfriends and had adventures. I would say that we have one of the best marriages I know.

The good guys definitely get taken first.

Having a happy marriage and family is ONE barometer of success. So is being a high powered career. There are many paths to success.


the guys who really want a family and kids are just as eager to settle down and start families as the women who want families (spoken as a guy who married my college gf and is happily married 23 years later)
Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:24     Subject: Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
I have these things but I don’t really think of them in terms of “success.” It’s the foundation of my *happiness* but not really relevant to what I think of as my successes, which are professional and financial.
Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:17     Subject: Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
Anonymous wrote:I think the barometer of success is living your best life--whatever that means to YOU, and being happy with what YOU have vs what someone else has. Marriage and kids is a success to someone who wants those things--not everyone does and that's ok.


BINGO, and thank you. There is no other answer, OP.
Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:16     Subject: Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
What do you mean by “desirable”? Are you referring to superficial measures of success, like wealth and status? Or are you referring to character, integrity, the capacity for a healthy relationship, even in the absence of those superficial measures? Like a low-earning teacher or social worker of good character who loves and adores his wife? Do you value the latter in the same way?
Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:14     Subject: Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I admit, whenever I see a woman married to a "good guy" and by that I mean, someone desirable and high quality with good character, well respected and an overall decent guy, I am envious. It is challenging to meet and date these types of guys so if she is one who manages to get and settle down with one, I consider it an accomplishment. Having 1 or 2 well adjusted kids rates her success even higher.

I do not think it is an accomplishment to marry or procreate with low quality guys. I guess its biology. Women choose to mate with the highest quality man possible. Those who can are winners.


It's not hard if you meet and settle down right after college or before late twenties.


This is true. In my observation, these guys are the first to exit the dating scene and marry college GFs or the girls they meet upon graduation. I also suspect the longer someone has been in the dating pool, the more damaged or broken they are.


+ 1

The longest and best marriages I know of started off dating in college.
Then why are the divorce rates for people in their 40s and 50s so high?

Yep! I saw DH and could in no way pass him by. I wasn't ready to settle down yet (I wanted to travel and live out my 20s), but he was the best man I'd ever met. Still is. We married at 25 and I did live out my 20s. I still traveled with girlfriends and had adventures. I would say that we have one of the best marriages I know.

The good guys definitely get taken first.

Having a happy marriage and family is ONE barometer of success. So is being a high powered career. There are many paths to success.
Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:10     Subject: Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I admit, whenever I see a woman married to a "good guy" and by that I mean, someone desirable and high quality with good character, well respected and an overall decent guy, I am envious. It is challenging to meet and date these types of guys so if she is one who manages to get and settle down with one, I consider it an accomplishment. Having 1 or 2 well adjusted kids rates her success even higher.

I do not think it is an accomplishment to marry or procreate with low quality guys. I guess its biology. Women choose to mate with the highest quality man possible. Those who can are winners.


It's not hard if you meet and settle down right after college or before late twenties.


This is true. In my observation, these guys are the first to exit the dating scene and marry college GFs or the girls they meet upon graduation. I also suspect the longer someone has been in the dating pool, the more damaged or broken they are.


+ 1

The longest and best marriages I know of started off dating in college.


Yep! I saw DH and could in no way pass him by. I wasn't ready to settle down yet (I wanted to travel and live out my 20s), but he was the best man I'd ever met. Still is. We married at 25 and I did live out my 20s. I still traveled with girlfriends and had adventures. I would say that we have one of the best marriages I know.

The good guys definitely get taken first.

Having a happy marriage and family is ONE barometer of success. So is being a high powered career. There are many paths to success.
Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:10     Subject: Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
I think the barometer of success is living your best life--whatever that means to YOU, and being happy with what YOU have vs what someone else has. Marriage and kids is a success to someone who wants those things--not everyone does and that's ok.
Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:09     Subject: Re:Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
I feel like I got the jackpot with my DH. However, we did not meet until I was 26 and he was 30. We married when I was 30. He was my first boyfriend too. So, I batted 100%! We have been married 26 years. Two great kids. One is launched this year and one is still in college. I do come from a family of late bloomers- so meeting someone in college was never going to happen.

I feel incredibly lucky. I don’t see it as a “success”.
Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:06     Subject: Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
Only to those who want to get married and have children.
Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:05     Subject: Re:Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
I feel like Carolyn Hax really nails this one. She says that of the four possible combinations of marital status and happiness, unhappily married is by far the worst. She ranks them like this:

Happily married
Happily single
Unhappily single
Unhappily married

I agree with this. If some one is very happily married to a great person, that's really awesome. I don't know if I would say "success" because that kinda feels like a "life is a race and a competition" vibe, which isn't my jam.

I would say though, that happily married to a great person means you get along well, you enjoy your time together, you both hold up your end of the work (house, kids, logistics etc), you both have the ability to support yourselves (one person might be staying home with the kids for a bit, that's cool), you're loving, you support each other, that kind of thing.

If your definition of "great person" is tall, full head of hair, rich, well dressed, that kinda thing... then I strongly disagree.
Anonymous
Post 09/28/2020 10:05     Subject: Re:Is being married and having children a barometer of success?
Anonymous wrote:I'd be interested to hear what OP thinks of as a "good guy". I sense that most of the good guys she is thinking of are high earners, which is problematic.

But even if the definition is broad, I don't really agree. I am married to a great guy and we have a wonderful kid. But I don't view any of that as "success" -- it's a combination of good luck and making choices to do things we both wanted (getting married, having a kid). I think it's a highly personal choice. I know people who made different choices, or who had different luck, and I don't consider them less successful than me. Some of them are more successful because they have more interesting and better paying jobs, for instance.

But I usually evaluate success as a career metric. I don't think it's the most important thing in life, nor the least important. I have not been very successful, though I do have a great family and am a good spouse and mother, so that counteracts some of my feelings about my lack of success in my career. And they are probably even related -- I likely would have made different career choices had I been single and childless.


I feel the same way. Getting married and having kids isn't a thing I think of in terms of "success." Or, if it is, it's of a different kind.