Sorry OP again- how do I find such a person? Ask pediatrician for recommendations? Is Children's Hospital good?

OP here- thanks all, appreciate the suggestions.

He gets lot of outside time- at daycare during the week and then on the weekends. Sometimes we do additional outside time after daycare but he plays hard and already seems exhausted. We rarely allow screen time during the week- occasionally in the morning but the evening routine is short playime, dinner, books, bed by 730pm. I don't want to take away books as punishment, so I'm always at a loss over punishment for hitting besides a time out. Sometime I think he does need an even earlier bedtime but I struggle to get the 1yo down before 7. My book time with him is after this. I will try harder though- maybe we skip playtime and go straight to dinner.

But yeah, clearly we do not have the tools to parent him so i'll look for the psychologist for some help. Thanks again.

Sounds to me like that poor kid wants some attention and you are yelling, dh is yelling, but to a four year old that all sounds like baby gets no yelling and mom and dad have no time for him.

The worst thing you can do to a child with anxiety, particualrly social anxiety, is to discipline with anger and yelling.
Just in case, he has anxiety that is a tip to know. If you were scared how would you react?

He needs more exercise and an earlier dinner and bedtime.

Start with that first.

Then implement a stricter policy for hitting and tantruming. You both need to be severe and consistent. You grab and squeeze him (he needs to feel the command physically, because verbal doesn't work at that age), look into his eyes, lower your voice, take the firmest tone you can, and say: "STOP". "DO NOT HIT". Then tell him to breathe. Practice breathing exercises (Mind Yeti is an excellent self-control online exercise for young children, my daughter's teacher used it every day). Make up an on-the-spot punishment that's quick but annoying for him. And when he's calm, repeat that he must never hit anyone otherwise he's doing to keep getting into trouble. You can distract him with silly conversation if he takes a bit of time to come to his senses, but always end with his acknowledgement that he's done something wrong.

If you feel he's too far gone to calm down in the moment, by all means, shut him up in his room, but understand that this will not teach him to self-regulate, it's just the last line of defense if you've got other urgent stuff to do.

Oh yes, and no screens in the late afternoon/evening. That gets them all riled up. Get a mini trampoline instead and put on music instead.

If anything that sounds like anxiety, social anxiety more than adhd. Far from diagnosing your child, all I am psoting is that this is what my kids had. However, he was active and had meltdown but not hurting sibling. You can watch him in social situaiton and see how he acts. If he is quiet, doesn't talk, looks scared, clingy, etc... talk to pediatrician.

Otherwise, kids like routines. Don't bark orders at him, don't interupt him in a middle of a show with "let's go, let's go!" Or get to bed, do this, do that without some notice. If you do this, you need to stop. Parnets often just bark orders and wonder why kid is not behaving. Would you like it if someone ordered you to stop watching a show and get dressed? Nope.

He bahaves perfectly at daycare, so how do you explain that? I think you need 1,2, 3 Magic and to keep him busy. If he is behaved at school, he might have all that pent up energy. Parks, running, swimming, biking, all of that has to be happening if you have a child with a lot of energy and no outlet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When he does these things, hurting the baby, the tantrums, how do you respond?

OP here- not very well. I will ignore regular tantrums but when he gets physical, end up picking him up and shutting him in his room. Same with hitting younger sibling- will ask him to stop but when he doesn’t, I have to drag him to his room for a timeout.

And as bad as he can be with me, he’s even worse with DH. I think it may partly be because DH has a lower tolerance for any unruly behavior. DS gets rather keyed up when tired at the end of the day. Was bouncing around yesterday evening as I was getting dinner on the table. DH’s instructions to “stop jumping” and “calm down” quickly escalated into yelling, tears, and DS socking DH in the mouth.

If he had ADHD, you would see behaviors at school. Before getting a full psych evaluation, I would work on some structure and discipline measures at home. Create a behavior chart with a rewards system. Since he is melting down at the end of the day, maybe he needs to go to bed earlier. Look at all this sort of stuff, bedtime, diet, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds tough. I think an eval AND a parenting coach in order-not because you are causing the issues but because kids with intense temperaments (and perhaps adhd, etc) can be really challenging and there is good evidence that specific parenting techniques can make a big difference. Id probably wait on a parenting classes/coaching till after an evaluation though so you have a better idea what of the nature of the issues. Good luck!

not a parenting coach. an actual trained behavioral psychologist who knows evidence-based methods to address disruptive behavior.

start out with reading Kazdin, Parenting the Defiant Child. https://alankazdin.com/

you can also seek out an evaluation, but evaluations a) take a long time and b) don't provide you any actual therapy, or even much insight into therapy. our aggressive DS actually did get an autism diagnosis in the middle of trying to figure out his behavioral issue, but the autism diagnosis was literally useless. it was one day with a psychologist who we never saw again. all she said was "get behavioral therapy for aggression and work on social skills." gee thanks!

if they wait for an evaluation, it will be another six months of letting these dysfunctional patterns escalate, and could get much, much worse. ask me how I know. especially with a smaller sib in the house, the aggression needs to be dealt with ASAP.

here's a starting place for therapy: http://www.pcit.org/

Also, I just wanted to address the notion that there's nothing that can be done until "you have a better idea of the nature of the issues." That's the single most harmful attitude we encountered when we started to deal with my DS's disruptive behaviors. OP already KNOWS the nature of the issues - her son is disruptive and physically aggressive, and she and her DH do not have parenting tools to deal with it. Sure there could be an underlying diagnosis, but that has nothing at all to do with the actual challenge, which is obvious.

Anonymous wrote:That sounds tough. I think an eval AND a parenting coach in order-not because you are causing the issues but because kids with intense temperaments (and perhaps adhd, etc) can be really challenging and there is good evidence that specific parenting techniques can make a big difference. Id probably wait on a parenting classes/coaching till after an evaluation though so you have a better idea what of the nature of the issues. Good luck!

not a parenting coach. an actual trained behavioral psychologist who knows evidence-based methods to address disruptive behavior.

start out with reading Kazdin, Parenting the Defiant Child. https://alankazdin.com/

you can also seek out an evaluation, but evaluations a) take a long time and b) don't provide you any actual therapy, or even much insight into therapy. our aggressive DS actually did get an autism diagnosis in the middle of trying to figure out his behavioral issue, but the autism diagnosis was literally useless. it was one day with a psychologist who we never saw again. all she said was "get behavioral therapy for aggression and work on social skills." gee thanks!

if they wait for an evaluation, it will be another six months of letting these dysfunctional patterns escalate, and could get much, much worse. ask me how I know. especially with a smaller sib in the house, the aggression needs to be dealt with ASAP.

here's a starting place for therapy: http://www.pcit.org/

That sounds tough. I think an eval AND a parenting coach in order-not because you are causing the issues but because kids with intense temperaments (and perhaps adhd, etc) can be really challenging and there is good evidence that specific parenting techniques can make a big difference. Id probably wait on a parenting classes/coaching till after an evaluation though so you have a better idea what of the nature of the issues. Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When he does these things, hurting the baby, the tantrums, how do you respond?

OP here- not very well. I will ignore regular tantrums but when he gets physical, end up picking him up and shutting him in his room. Same with hitting younger sibling- will ask him to stop but when he doesn’t, I have to drag him to his room for a timeout.

And as bad as he can be with me, he’s even worse with DH. I think it may partly be because DH has a lower tolerance for any unruly behavior. DS gets rather keyed up when tired at the end of the day. Was bouncing around yesterday evening as I was getting dinner on the table. DH’s instructions to “stop jumping” and “calm down” quickly escalated into yelling, tears, and DS socking DH in the mouth.

What worked for us was taking away nightly screen time for any aggression. Time outs don’t work for our kid. Just got him more upset, and they also escalated tension because they required physical intervention. And time outs also require older kids to cooperate at exactly the time they are most unable to comply with direction. Unless you’re willing to physically hold them in time out. Sometimes I feel like the people who preach time outs actually never had a kid with actual behavioral issues ...

So I’m a big fan of taking away a privilege instead of the heightened drama and struggles of time out. (Although obviously you can physically separate your kids to stop hitting, but this can be done in a less dramatic way than a time out.)

The key thing we learned about taking away privileges from our therapist is that the punishment is MUCH smaller than you think. Consistency and proportion are more important. So all we did for an incident of hitting was take away TV for one night. Then you pair it with a ton of praise for when they are good, and quality happy time to build a strong positive relationship even if the kid has challenges.

Also you do need to address this. You can’t let him hit his dad. I would call around to behavioral therapists asap.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When he does these things, hurting the baby, the tantrums, how do you respond?

OP here- not very well. I will ignore regular tantrums but when he gets physical, end up picking him up and shutting him in his room. Same with hitting younger sibling- will ask him to stop but when he doesn’t, I have to drag him to his room for a timeout.

And as bad as he can be with me, he’s even worse with DH. I think it may partly be because DH has a lower tolerance for any unruly behavior. DS gets rather keyed up when tired at the end of the day. Was bouncing around yesterday evening as I was getting dinner on the table. DH’s instructions to “stop jumping” and “calm down” quickly escalated into yelling, tears, and DS socking DH in the mouth.

What worked for us was taking away nightly screen time for any aggression. Time outs don’t work for our kid. Just got him more upset, and they also escalated tension because they required physical intervention. And time outs also require older kids to cooperate at exactly the time they are most unable to comply with direction. Unless you’re willing to physically hold them in time out. Sometimes I feel like the people who preach time outs actually never had a kid with actual behavioral issues ...

So I’m a big fan of taking away a privilege instead of the heightened drama and struggles of time out. (Although obviously you can physically separate your kids to stop hitting, but this can be done in a less dramatic way than a time out.)

The key thing we learned about taking away privileges from our therapist is that the punishment is MUCH smaller than you think. Consistency and proportion are more important. So all we did for an incident of hitting was take away TV for one night. Then you pair it with a ton of praise for when they are good, and quality happy time to build a strong positive relationship even if the kid has challenges.

Anonymous wrote:When he does these things, hurting the baby, the tantrums, how do you respond?

OP here- not very well. I will ignore regular tantrums but when he gets physical, end up picking him up and shutting him in his room. Same with hitting younger sibling- will ask him to stop but when he doesn’t, I have to drag him to his room for a timeout.

And as bad as he can be with me, he’s even worse with DH. I think it may partly be because DH has a lower tolerance for any unruly behavior. DS gets rather keyed up when tired at the end of the day. Was bouncing around yesterday evening as I was getting dinner on the table. DH’s instructions to “stop jumping” and “calm down” quickly escalated into yelling, tears, and DS socking DH in the mouth.

Worth talking to a behavior specialist that can give you more tools. Smart kids know how far they can go with particular people, so that could be why school is better. Or maybe social pressure to keep it together.

A huge part of discipline for kids depends on consistency. My DH has trouble with that and my 5 yo sometimes treats him like crap. Not that I’m perfect or that getting there was always easy, but I do enjoy a much more respectful and drama free relationship with her. We have a 1 yo too. It’s funny, but already she behaves differently for me vs DH. She’s a biter (ugh) and she rarely bites me and it’s pretty half hearted when she does bc she know I’m not ok with it and I’ll put her down or walk away if she bites me and she never gets whatever she wanted out of it.

I think he probably needs a more highly structured environment like at school.