Anonymous wrote:I have posted in the past in support of Denison. I have a student who is currently a senior. He has had a good experience and I believe is genuinely fond of the Hill.

I can share my family’s thinking and how that thinking has likely impacted (lowered) Denison’s acceptance rate.

A couple of things. My son is pretty intellectual although not a grinder. He’s also not a Econ studying Lax Bro that has aspirations of going to Wall Street. He went to a good UMC East Coast suburban high school. Nothing special though. And last he was not a recruited athlete.

What does that all mean - at least through my optics.

He didn’t go to a private school nor is he a recruited athlete. That knocks down most of the upper tier Nescac schools. I’m making generalizations but there is some truth in them. Knocks out a couple of Patriot schools as well. Then again, never did understand the appeal of Colgate’s location and not feeling the Bucknell vibe. Way too much drinking. Like Lafayette but sorry that town is depressing.

So doesn’t really have the grades for upper NESCAC, not sure he wants to freeze his b$lls off at Colgate while hanging with a bunch of finance wantabe’s and the like and doesn’t want to feel like he’s living in a depressed economic area. Seriously, have your driven to some of these places ? Who in their right mind wants to spend 4 years in some of these places ? I would go out of my mind.

Drive up to Denison - it may not be classical in its Architecture but downtown Granville reminds him of home, kids are friendly, not all stressed out, and Dad’s liking the discount especially as my son’s college fund got whacked in the Great Recession.

So it’s not Haverford, definitely not Swarthmore, but kid can have fun. And I suspect he’s not killing himself but he’s working - I see it and he’s maturing into a nice young adult in a relatively safe environment.

He was accepted to higher ranked schools. Some definitely more academic but Denison felt like home. And do they discount to compete - sure - name me a business that doesn’t. I do in my business.

But the flip side my rock star daughter with 99.5 percentile SATs and straight A’s - Denison offered her significantly less merit. Part of that is based on gender and I’m sure they figured she would get “better” offers but also I suspect they know their class.

I actually think the acceptance rate decline is not a good thing. Some students belong at Wesleyan, some at Smarthmore, and some at Pitt, and some at Denison. We are all a little different.

I will say though I like going to Granville. Drive’s a bit much but cute little town. And it is not easy to find the complete package and alot of the SLACs are not in thriving areas.

So in typical DCUM fashion I’m sure there will be folks that flame away because it’s not Williams but not everybody belongs at Williams.

It is what it is - a good school in a nice town that provides a nice place for young people to learn how to become independent adults. It’s not the only school out there but importantly my son had liked it and my DW and I are happy with how he has grown.

I was reading until this. It’s offensive. You could’ve left this out and gotten your point across. I guess I’m not in my right mind because I spent the first 19 years old my life in one of “those places”!

Well said. My kid also had a great experience there.

I have posted in the past in support of Denison. I have a student who is currently a senior. He has had a good experience and I believe is genuinely fond of the Hill.

I can share my family’s thinking and how that thinking has likely impacted (lowered) Denison’s acceptance rate.

A couple of things. My son is pretty intellectual although not a grinder. He’s also not a Econ studying Lax Bro that has aspirations of going to Wall Street. He went to a good UMC East Coast suburban high school. Nothing special though. And last he was not a recruited athlete.

What does that all mean - at least through my optics.

He didn’t go to a private school nor is he a recruited athlete. That knocks down most of the upper tier Nescac schools. I’m making generalizations but there is some truth in them. Knocks out a couple of Patriot schools as well. Then again, never did understand the appeal of Colgate’s location and not feeling the Bucknell vibe. Way too much drinking. Like Lafayette but sorry that town is depressing.

So doesn’t really have the grades for upper NESCAC, not sure he wants to freeze his b$lls off at Colgate while hanging with a bunch of finance wantabe’s and the like and doesn’t want to feel like he’s living in a depressed economic area. Seriously, have your driven to some of these places ? Who in their right mind wants to spend 4 years in some of these places ? I would go out of my mind.

Drive up to Denison - it may not be classical in its Architecture but downtown Granville reminds him of home, kids are friendly, not all stressed out, and Dad’s liking the discount especially as my son’s college fund got whacked in the Great Recession.

So it’s not Haverford, definitely not Swarthmore, but kid can have fun. And I suspect he’s not killing himself but he’s working - I see it and he’s maturing into a nice young adult in a relatively safe environment.

He was accepted to higher ranked schools. Some definitely more academic but Denison felt like home. And do they discount to compete - sure - name me a business that doesn’t. I do in my business.

But the flip side my rock star daughter with 99.5 percentile SATs and straight A’s - Denison offered her significantly less merit. Part of that is based on gender and I’m sure they figured she would get “better” offers but also I suspect they know their class.

I actually think the acceptance rate decline is not a good thing. Some students belong at Wesleyan, some at Smarthmore, and some at Pitt, and some at Denison. We are all a little different.

I will say though I like going to Granville. Drive’s a bit much but cute little town. And it is not easy to find the complete package and alot of the SLACs are not in thriving areas.

So in typical DCUM fashion I’m sure there will be folks that flame away because it’s not Williams but not everybody belongs at Williams.

It is what it is - a good school in a nice town that provides a nice place for young people to learn how to become independent adults. It’s not the only school out there but importantly my son had liked it and my DW and I are happy with how he has grown.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Acceptance rates alone do not provide a clear picture of a college's selectivity.

Exactly. From their admissions blog:

"and the incoming class boasts middle 50% test score ranges of 27-31 (ACT) and 1200-1410 (SAT).”

So we're talking about an average ACT of 29 and SAT of 1300ish. Pretty mediocre.

It's "mediocre" in the context of highly selective schools. In the universe of schools generally, it is not "mediocre."

I will never understand why people on these boards are so invested in denigrating other people's choices.

EXCEPT that this is a thread about selectivity, and the original post compared it to W&M's selectivity.

EXCEPT that 29% acceptance is fairly selective. Line up 10 kids. Only 3 are getting accepted, the other 7 aren't.

You can't focus on percent acceptance when kids have enough data to target their apps. Kids know you have to have a 1400 and a 4.0 GPA or some other great hooks to get into W&M. That's less than 5% of possible kids. To have a 1250 and a 3.6, that's more like the top 15-20%. There's a lot more potential kids who fall in the score range of Denison than W&M and they accept a lot fewer overall. So percent acceptance only is meaningful for comparing schools with similar admitted student profiles.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Acceptance rates alone do not provide a clear picture of a college's selectivity.

Exactly. From their admissions blog:

"and the incoming class boasts middle 50% test score ranges of 27-31 (ACT) and 1200-1410 (SAT).”

So we're talking about an average ACT of 29 and SAT of 1300ish. Pretty mediocre.

It's "mediocre" in the context of highly selective schools. In the universe of schools generally, it is not "mediocre."

I will never understand why people on these boards are so invested in denigrating other people's choices.

Someone called a kid with a 1360 an idiot on this forum. Which is ridiculous!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Acceptance rates alone do not provide a clear picture of a college's selectivity.

Exactly. From their admissions blog:

"and the incoming class boasts middle 50% test score ranges of 27-31 (ACT) and 1200-1410 (SAT).”

So we're talking about an average ACT of 29 and SAT of 1300ish. Pretty mediocre.

It's "mediocre" in the context of highly selective schools. In the universe of schools generally, it is not "mediocre."

I will never understand why people on these boards are so invested in denigrating other people's choices.

EXCEPT that this is a thread about selectivity, and the original post compared it to W&M's selectivity.

EXCEPT that 29% acceptance is fairly selective. Line up 10 kids. Only 3 are getting accepted, the other 7 aren't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Acceptance rates alone do not provide a clear picture of a college's selectivity.

Exactly. From their admissions blog:

"and the incoming class boasts middle 50% test score ranges of 27-31 (ACT) and 1200-1410 (SAT).”

So we're talking about an average ACT of 29 and SAT of 1300ish. Pretty mediocre.

It's "mediocre" in the context of highly selective schools. In the universe of schools generally, it is not "mediocre."

I will never understand why people on these boards are so invested in denigrating other people's choices.

EXCEPT that this is a thread about selectivity, and the original post compared it to W&M's selectivity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Acceptance rates alone do not provide a clear picture of a college's selectivity.

Exactly. From their admissions blog:

"and the incoming class boasts middle 50% test score ranges of 27-31 (ACT) and 1200-1410 (SAT).”

So we're talking about an average ACT of 29 and SAT of 1300ish. Pretty mediocre.

It's "mediocre" in the context of highly selective schools. In the universe of schools generally, it is not "mediocre."

I will never understand why people on these boards are so invested in denigrating other people's choices.

Because people here are mean and bitter and hiding behind anonymity.

They also are stupid, as they think 88-90th percentile is "mediocre" .

https://blog.prepscholar.com/what-is-a-good-act-score-a-bad-act-score-an-excellent-act-score#

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Acceptance rates alone do not provide a clear picture of a college's selectivity.

Exactly. From their admissions blog:

"and the incoming class boasts middle 50% test score ranges of 27-31 (ACT) and 1200-1410 (SAT).”

So we're talking about an average ACT of 29 and SAT of 1300ish. Pretty mediocre.

It's "mediocre" in the context of highly selective schools. In the universe of schools generally, it is not "mediocre."

I will never understand why people on these boards are so invested in denigrating other people's choices.

Anonymous wrote:Acceptance rates alone do not provide a clear picture of a college's selectivity.

Exactly. From their admissions blog:

"and the incoming class boasts middle 50% test score ranges of 27-31 (ACT) and 1200-1410 (SAT).”

So we're talking about an average ACT of 29 and SAT of 1300ish. Pretty mediocre.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised as well. We visited a couple of years ago and it just didn't feel like a highly academic atmosphere. It felt pre-professional - which may be fine for people, of course, but it didn't have that feel of a high selective liberal arts college.

Yes it is well known as a second-tier safety school. Not worth the money.

Apparently students don't agree with you. 29% acceptance isn't a "safety school". At one time Tulane was a safety school as well, not so much anymore. Washington University of St Louis was once a "streetcar college". Now it's highly selective.

https://source.wustl.edu/2003/12/the-new-york-times-spotlights-wustl-rapid-ascent-to-national-elite/

Times change, schools become more popular. Don't hate. Appreciate.

While I 100% agree with you, these idiot-trolls are best ignored.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised as well. We visited a couple of years ago and it just didn't feel like a highly academic atmosphere. It felt pre-professional - which may be fine for people, of course, but it didn't have that feel of a high selective liberal arts college.

Yes it is well known as a second-tier safety school. Not worth the money.

Apparently students don't agree with you. 29% acceptance isn't a "safety school". At one time Tulane was a safety school as well, not so much anymore. Washington University of St Louis was once a "streetcar college". Now it's highly selective.

https://source.wustl.edu/2003/12/the-new-york-times-spotlights-wustl-rapid-ascent-to-national-elite/

Times change, schools become more popular. Don't hate. Appreciate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just checked out their pre-health advising page. Not too impressive. I guess they couldn’t find a single veterinarian alum to profile, but the found an art therapist.

Off our list.

I went to Denison. My college roommate is a vet. So there’s at least one.

My DC went to Denison. Had several excellent job offers to choose from. Happy working and earning a great salary.

It has become pretty competitive, admissions-wise. Adam Weinberg is fantastic.

I'm the PP who mentioned the pre-professional vibe there -- and there's definitely nothing wrong with getting a great job out of college, but the admissions presentation was very focused on what they called their "outcomes" to the expense of everything else and that was very off putting to us.

At other LACs that we visited, they talked about their academic philosophy, the types of classes you'd be taking, the history of the school and some of its traditions, the experience you'll have on campus, but we didn't get that at Denison. The presentation was very focused on where the kids would be working when they graduated. For my daughter, who is planning on getting her PhD, it just didn't have the right vibe for her (even with potential merit).

That’s fine, a given college needs to be the right fit. I agree that Denison has a pre-professional vibe to it. If that doesn’t work for you, then yes, look elsewhere. I disagree that Denison does not have an academic philosophy or history and traditions, maybe that was not emphasized during your visit, I don’t know.

I do think the liberal arts are having an increasingly hard time selling themselves given rising tuitions and the job market. Denison is pivoting to adapt to that.

Plenty of Denison graduates go on to graduate and professional school, and in fact, off the top of my head I can think of several of DC’s classmates who have entered PhD programs. I think that DC will go to graduate school as well at some point, just not right now.

I graduated from a NESCAC school a million years ago, and my DC had a much better experience at Denison in every way than I did at my alma mater in the 80s. Not surprisingly, Denison alumni are far more loyal and generous with donations than my alma mater alumni are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just checked out their pre-health advising page. Not too impressive. I guess they couldn’t find a single veterinarian alum to profile, but the found an art therapist.

Off our list.

I went to Denison. My college roommate is a vet. So there’s at least one.

My DC went to Denison. Had several excellent job offers to choose from. Happy working and earning a great salary.

It has become pretty competitive, admissions-wise. Adam Weinberg is fantastic.

I'm the PP who mentioned the pre-professional vibe there -- and there's definitely nothing wrong with getting a great job out of college, but the admissions presentation was very focused on what they called their "outcomes" to the expense of everything else and that was very off putting to us.

At other LACs that we visited, they talked about their academic philosophy, the types of classes you'd be taking, the history of the school and some of its traditions, the experience you'll have on campus, but we didn't get that at Denison. The presentation was very focused on where the kids would be working when they graduated. For my daughter, who is planning on getting her PhD, it just didn't have the right vibe for her (even with potential merit).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised as well. We visited a couple of years ago and it just didn't feel like a highly academic atmosphere. It felt pre-professional - which may be fine for people, of course, but it didn't have that feel of a high selective liberal arts college.

Yes it is well known as a second-tier safety school. Not worth the money.

It has a huge endowment and gives generous merit scholarships to highly qualified students.

I think it gives merit aid to most students. Which may explain its popularity.

It’s all token though. I guess it’s appealing to people who still want to pay $37k+/yr.