Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the problems with W&M is that it's extremely strict on grading (which would be fine if not for), student codes, and social codes.

It's a very conservative social culture. Not necessarily politically conservative or religious, but conservative as in very judgemental of any freedom/liberties. It's really not a good place to find yourself in as a college kid when you want to be exploring the world. Large part of this is being in the South.

Also there's a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby it has a terrible reputation as a school socially, and only those that don't care about social culture go there, realize that it has a terrible social culture and don't enjoy their time there, tell others that it has a terrible social culture, etc.

A lot of male kids that go their do so because they didn't get into UVA, which worsens resentment towards the already extremely bad school.

Being in Williamsburg, a terrible town by any standard full of retirees and the type of tourists who want to go to Colonial Williamsburg (again, retirees), further worsens the deficits of the school.

The only good part of W&M is that its better to go there than massive 30,000-student public schools for those majoring in certain humanities - English, etc. - because of the small class sizes although the course selection is very limited. STEM and Business education are both terribly weak.

But anyone not majoring in humanities and anyone that can go to private LACs and mid-sized universities should do so.

OP here. Again, I've heard all this before, but people who say these things seem to say so from "what they've heard." That's why I asked for opinions from those with first-hand experience. I'm not sure why, but W&M seems to generate a set of cliches and stereotypes that are incongruent with the experiences of those who attend. Perhaps, the stereotypes are judgements about the type of student (e.g. introverts) who attends W&M, not the school experience itself.

I'm not saying so from "what they've heard". And all the other accounts of the school have been from parents, which is not first-hand experience.

Ironically, the cliches/stereotypes of the school tends to be very positive among parents and others - "intellectual", "welcoming", "cooperative", "quirky", "academic", etc.

The reality is as I posted above. The school is not conservative or judgemental - if you are from the deep South. The town is not terribly boring and parochial - if you grew up in a rural farm and have never been to a city.

The town is absolutely terrible and one of the worst "college towns" in the country, not because it is necessarily unsafe or run-down (although some areas are underdeveloped and have a trailer-park feel as many rural areas in the South are), but because its parochial, boring, non-existent and absolutely filled with retirees everywhere. The point about retirees is that they like living near a historical college, but absolutely hate, and I mean abhor, detest, students - especially if these students are from a different persuasion (read: It's in the South).

There is no grade deflation in STEM or Business - again primarily because these subjects are very weak generally. You could argue that there is grade deflation in the humanities, but in reality it's really just a difficulty in getting A's. A student could turn in a mediocre paper and get a B+. A student could turn in a top-notch paper and still get the same B+.

You can't really disassociate the school itself from the students that attend it, the town that it is in, and the people that run it.

You could say the professors are kind and understanding, which may be true but that's not much different from any other SLAC (professors tend to be more busy/less understanding in research universities). Some of the professors in the humanities are good, but the rest the subjects aren't very distinguished at all.

Anonymous wrote:Williamsburg is a quaint town for retirees, but a dreadful college town. That seems to influence the tone and vibe of the college as well. And it feels like an introverted campus because it generally attracts introverted students.

Some schools have energy and momentum. W&M is low on both.

I'm going to start reporting you. You troll every W&M thread and I'm sick of it.

I'd love for either or both my kids (DS and DD) to go to W&M. I love that its so academically serious, has fantastic opportunities for overseas study (when the pandemic is over...).

I laughed out loud when I read a post on the first page which I think said it was "an extremely bad school" I wondered if mister "ginger monkey lives on my head" had meandered in to pass comment.

Also the stats speak for themselves: 36% acceptance rate and over 90% graduation rate (4 yrs). Very decent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williamsburg is a quaint town for retirees, but a dreadful college town. That seems to influence the tone and vibe of the college as well. And it feels like an introverted campus because it generally attracts introverted students.

Some schools have energy and momentum. W&M is low on both.

OP here. This is exactly the type of post that is not helpful - full of stereotypes and no first-hand experience. Canceled.

The stereotypes in this case are entirely true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the problems with W&M is that it's extremely strict on grading (which would be fine if not for), student codes, and social codes.

It's a very conservative social culture. Not necessarily politically conservative or religious, but conservative as in very judgemental of any freedom/liberties. It's really not a good place to find yourself in as a college kid when you want to be exploring the world. Large part of this is being in the South.

Also there's a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby it has a terrible reputation as a school socially, and only those that don't care about social culture go there, realize that it has a terrible social culture and don't enjoy their time there, tell others that it has a terrible social culture, etc.

A lot of male kids that go their do so because they didn't get into UVA, which worsens resentment towards the already extremely bad school.

Being in Williamsburg, a terrible town by any standard full of retirees and the type of tourists who want to go to Colonial Williamsburg (again, retirees), further worsens the deficits of the school.

The only good part of W&M is that its better to go there than massive 30,000-student public schools for those majoring in certain humanities - English, etc. - because of the small class sizes although the course selection is very limited. STEM and Business education are both terribly weak.

But anyone not majoring in humanities and anyone that can go to private LACs and mid-sized universities should do so.

I wouldn't say that at all--very open to LGBTQ+, many diverse perspectives. Kids can be athletic, nerdy, middle of the road, outdoorsy, artsy--there's not a strong common type.

And their business school is highly regarded. STEM varies (though obviously marine biology is top-notch). If you're an alum, you're in the minority for your bitterness because W&M regularly gets rated among the top in the country in terms of alum support. If you're not an alum, I'm wondering what's informing your thinking.

There is indeed a very small group of LGBTQ+ students. You should ask them how open they find the rest of the school to be. The answer is very obvious: not very, unless you are comparing to rural Alabama.

Their business school is not highly regarded, it's at best mediocre for a Southern school and when compared to other public schools/flagships. Perhaps if you compare it to say, Eastern Tennessee University it's 'good'.

Their STEM is terrible. Yes VIMs and NASA helps them with a few faculty for Biology and Physics, but those subjects are still very mediocre and no where near good STEM public schools (i.e. UIUC, Purdue, Berkeley, Michigan, etc.). The rest of the sciences and Math are utterly terrible. Engineering and Technology doesn't exist obviously

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the problems with W&M is that it's extremely strict on grading (which would be fine if not for), student codes, and social codes.

It's a very conservative social culture. Not necessarily politically conservative or religious, but conservative as in very judgemental of any freedom/liberties. It's really not a good place to find yourself in as a college kid when you want to be exploring the world. Large part of this is being in the South.

Also there's a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby it has a terrible reputation as a school socially, and only those that don't care about social culture go there, realize that it has a terrible social culture and don't enjoy their time there, tell others that it has a terrible social culture, etc.

A lot of male kids that go their do so because they didn't get into UVA, which worsens resentment towards the already extremely bad school.

Being in Williamsburg, a terrible town by any standard full of retirees and the type of tourists who want to go to Colonial Williamsburg (again, retirees), further worsens the deficits of the school.

The only good part of W&M is that its better to go there than massive 30,000-student public schools for those majoring in certain humanities - English, etc. - because of the small class sizes although the course selection is very limited. STEM and Business education are both terribly weak.

But anyone not majoring in humanities and anyone that can go to private LACs and mid-sized universities should do so.

This is one of the most ignorant assessments of W&M that I have ever seen here. Sounds like someone either didn't get in or has something against the school for other reasons.

I've had one kid graduate from W&M and another is currently there. They are as different as two boys could be, one introverted and intellectual, the other more outgoing and plays a sport. Both of them loved it there. Grades have not been an issue, even though my younger son was never that focused on grades, he's done better there than he did in high school.

I don't know where you come up with conservative culture. WM students are very accepting and the only judgment you might see would be against those who aren't open-minded.

Your comment about UVA is incoherent. It is slightly easier for a male to get into W&M than UVA (I have a third kid there), but neither of my sons applied there. They both preferred the vibe, size, and attributes of W&M.

As for living in a boring town? Isn't half the point of college to learn to make your own fun? Not everyone needs rows of frathouses and bars to have a good time.

"Ignorant" means "lacking knowledge", not anything that personally discomforts you. "Incoherent" means "incomprehensible", not anything that personally offends you. Put down the thesaurus, it will help you a lot in life.

You don't even attend W&M, how do you know the students are very accepting?

The vast majority of in-state male students tend to apply to both W&M and UVA, and those that don't get in to UVA go to W&M. Just because your two little kids didn't apply to UVA is irrelevant.

The point of college is to explore the world, not to "make your own fun", or "frathouses" or "bars". The town is utterly terrible and worse than parochial.

Anonymous wrote:DS is a junior at W&M. Unfortunately, many of the stereotypes are true. Grading scale is unnecessarily difficult. DS was a 4.6, 1500+ kid from a top FCPS. Picked W&M over UVA because he wanted a smaller school environment. Did not believe the grade deflation rumors. The rumors are true. Often wishes he had transferred to UVA, but it's too late now. His friends at UVA report a much better and more balanced college experience. DS has not been impressed with the social scene either. You can find fun, but you really have to look for it. He is getting a good education, but just not sure it's worth it. Wouldn't do it again, which makes me sad. But making the best of it.

OP here. Thank you. This is helpful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My biggest concern is the reputation about the school being grueling. Is that true? How intense is it academically?

It's academically demanding but I wouldn't say grueling. The writing load is as high as any top liberal arts colleges and there are also challenging tests (rarely simple multiple choice/information based--but that + extensive application/critique. The average GPA is 3.3 so kids end up with similar GPAs as other schools, but it's a hard-won 3.3. My eldest had multiple Ds after getting a 4.3 GPA in HS and a 1500 SAT--and it wasn't just because of too much partying. Even in classes that other schools might give easy A's you can get a C based on quality of work. There's no sense of getting credit for just showing up and doing some work. My kid got a 25/100 on a paper that was done too last minute, but still met the page length and citation requirements, and didn't read as pure crap--I would have thought he'd get a 65 or 70 on it. It does seem that many professors grade in a way more typical of earlier eras (i.e. stricter) than other colleges. Graduate schools do seem to know this though and kids learn to rise to the standard. I would say it is most an issue for pre-med where there are very strict cut-offs.

Op here. Thank you. This is helpful.

DS is a junior at W&M. Unfortunately, many of the stereotypes are true. Grading scale is unnecessarily difficult. DS was a 4.6, 1500+ kid from a top FCPS. Picked W&M over UVA because he wanted a smaller school environment. Did not believe the grade deflation rumors. The rumors are true. Often wishes he had transferred to UVA, but it's too late now. His friends at UVA report a much better and more balanced college experience. DS has not been impressed with the social scene either. You can find fun, but you really have to look for it. He is getting a good education, but just not sure it's worth it. Wouldn't do it again, which makes me sad. But making the best of it.

Anonymous wrote:My biggest concern is the reputation about the school being grueling. Is that true? How intense is it academically?

It's academically demanding but I wouldn't say grueling. The writing load is as high as any top liberal arts colleges and there are also challenging tests (rarely simple multiple choice/information based--but that + extensive application/critique. The average GPA is 3.3 so kids end up with similar GPAs as other schools, but it's a hard-won 3.3. My eldest had multiple Ds after getting a 4.3 GPA in HS and a 1500 SAT--and it wasn't just because of too much partying. Even in classes that other schools might give easy A's you can get a C based on quality of work. There's no sense of getting credit for just showing up and doing some work. My kid got a 25/100 on a paper that was done too last minute, but still met the page length and citation requirements, and didn't read as pure crap--I would have thought he'd get a 65 or 70 on it. It does seem that many professors grade in a way more typical of earlier eras (i.e. stricter) than other colleges. Graduate schools do seem to know this though and kids learn to rise to the standard. I would say it is most an issue for pre-med where there are very strict cut-offs.

Anonymous wrote:One of the problems with W&M is that it's extremely strict on grading (which would be fine if not for), student codes, and social codes.

It's a very conservative social culture. Not necessarily politically conservative or religious, but conservative as in very judgemental of any freedom/liberties. It's really not a good place to find yourself in as a college kid when you want to be exploring the world. Large part of this is being in the South.

Also there's a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby it has a terrible reputation as a school socially, and only those that don't care about social culture go there, realize that it has a terrible social culture and don't enjoy their time there, tell others that it has a terrible social culture, etc.

A lot of male kids that go their do so because they didn't get into UVA, which worsens resentment towards the already extremely bad school.

Being in Williamsburg, a terrible town by any standard full of retirees and the type of tourists who want to go to Colonial Williamsburg (again, retirees), further worsens the deficits of the school.

The only good part of W&M is that its better to go there than massive 30,000-student public schools for those majoring in certain humanities - English, etc. - because of the small class sizes although the course selection is very limited. STEM and Business education are both terribly weak.

But anyone not majoring in humanities and anyone that can go to private LACs and mid-sized universities should do so.

OP here. Again, I've heard all this before, but people who say these things seem to say so from "what they've heard." That's why I asked for opinions from those with first-hand experience. I'm not sure why, but W&M seems to generate a set of cliches and stereotypes that are incongruent with the experiences of those who attend. Perhaps, the stereotypes are judgements about the type of student (e.g. introverts) who attends W&M, not the school experience itself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the problems with W&M is that it's extremely strict on grading (which would be fine if not for), student codes, and social codes.

It's a very conservative social culture. Not necessarily politically conservative or religious, but conservative as in very judgemental of any freedom/liberties. It's really not a good place to find yourself in as a college kid when you want to be exploring the world. Large part of this is being in the South.

Also there's a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby it has a terrible reputation as a school socially, and only those that don't care about social culture go there, realize that it has a terrible social culture and don't enjoy their time there, tell others that it has a terrible social culture, etc.

A lot of male kids that go their do so because they didn't get into UVA, which worsens resentment towards the already extremely bad school.

Being in Williamsburg, a terrible town by any standard full of retirees and the type of tourists who want to go to Colonial Williamsburg (again, retirees), further worsens the deficits of the school.

The only good part of W&M is that its better to go there than massive 30,000-student public schools for those majoring in certain humanities - English, etc. - because of the small class sizes although the course selection is very limited. STEM and Business education are both terribly weak.

But anyone not majoring in humanities and anyone that can go to private LACs and mid-sized universities should do so.

I wouldn't say that at all--very open to LGBTQ+, many diverse perspectives. Kids can be athletic, nerdy, middle of the road, outdoorsy, artsy--there's not a strong common type.

And their business school is highly regarded. STEM varies (though obviously marine biology is top-notch). If you're an alum, you're in the minority for your bitterness because W&M regularly gets rated among the top in the country in terms of alum support. If you're not an alum, I'm wondering what's informing your thinking.

+1 my bleeding heart liberal lesbian daughter looooves William and Mary

This post should tell you a lot about the W&M vibe. Very true.

My biggest concern is the reputation about the school being grueling. Is that true? How intense is it academically?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the problems with W&M is that it's extremely strict on grading (which would be fine if not for), student codes, and social codes.

It's a very conservative social culture. Not necessarily politically conservative or religious, but conservative as in very judgemental of any freedom/liberties. It's really not a good place to find yourself in as a college kid when you want to be exploring the world. Large part of this is being in the South.

Also there's a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby it has a terrible reputation as a school socially, and only those that don't care about social culture go there, realize that it has a terrible social culture and don't enjoy their time there, tell others that it has a terrible social culture, etc.

A lot of male kids that go their do so because they didn't get into UVA, which worsens resentment towards the already extremely bad school.

Being in Williamsburg, a terrible town by any standard full of retirees and the type of tourists who want to go to Colonial Williamsburg (again, retirees), further worsens the deficits of the school.

The only good part of W&M is that its better to go there than massive 30,000-student public schools for those majoring in certain humanities - English, etc. - because of the small class sizes although the course selection is very limited. STEM and Business education are both terribly weak.

But anyone not majoring in humanities and anyone that can go to private LACs and mid-sized universities should do so.

I wouldn't say that at all--very open to LGBTQ+, many diverse perspectives. Kids can be athletic, nerdy, middle of the road, outdoorsy, artsy--there's not a strong common type.

And their business school is highly regarded. STEM varies (though obviously marine biology is top-notch). If you're an alum, you're in the minority for your bitterness because W&M regularly gets rated among the top in the country in terms of alum support. If you're not an alum, I'm wondering what's informing your thinking.

+1 my bleeding heart liberal lesbian daughter looooves William and Mary

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williamsburg is a quaint town for retirees, but a dreadful college town. That seems to influence the tone and vibe of the college as well. And it feels like an introverted campus because it generally attracts introverted students.

Some schools have energy and momentum. W&M is low on both.

OP here. This is exactly the type of post that is not helpful - full of stereotypes and no first-hand experience. Canceled.

"You want the truth. You can't handle the truth!"