Anonymous wrote:Fundamentally, I'm too lazy to tiger parent my kids. I am white and have a degree from HLS (no hooks). Hopefully they will be good testers like me. If not, plenty of state schools offer a fine education.

My parents both grew up poor so that helps me keep perspective. Most of my many cousins are some gradation of middle or working class.

Middle class is fine. Working class involves a lot of dumb choices and forced interaction with people that aren't that bright and so that sucks. But that's an issue of character building and we do work on that. But forced early morning violin lessons? Sounds like pretty sucky QOL unless you both really love the violin.

Same here- lazy Harvard and Yale grad here who tests well. I will say I wish my parents had done more to instill the value of hard work, but I did get there eventually on my own once I found a career I cared about. I hope my children are self-motivated and curious but I’m not sure I’ll force them to work crazy hard if they’re not. They’re young still.

I sorta disagree with “middle class is fine”. My life is way better as an economically well-off person than the alternative and I know this from what my parents and other relatives went through. And being able to support not only my own family but my extended family to some extent is rewarding and gives my life purpose and meaning. So, I will do what I can to impart these values on my kids. Now, could I be hustling much harder to be a tech or finance gazillionaire? Sure, but that level of wealth doesn’t appeal to me enough to make the relevant life decisions it would entail. I also don’t want my kids to glorify wealth and will not push them into the relentless pursuit of it.

Fundamentally, I'm too lazy to tiger parent my kids. I am white and have a degree from HLS (no hooks). Hopefully they will be good testers like me. If not, plenty of state schools offer a fine education.

My parents both grew up poor so that helps me keep perspective. Most of my many cousins are some gradation of middle or working class.

Middle class is fine. Working class involves a lot of dumb choices and forced interaction with people that aren't that bright and so that sucks. But that's an issue of character building and we do work on that. But forced early morning violin lessons? Sounds like pretty sucky QOL unless you both really love the violin.

I lived with one of the daughters of a "tiger mom". Individual leases and you can't choose your rommate, in this situation.

She was a "successful" post-doc at my university and was miserable. She'd be up by 4a to go to the lab and come back around midnight. No friends, just work and the colleagues from work that she complained constantly were lazy.

She screamed at me for wasting time on the dance team I did 1x/week and for having a boyfriend (now DH). She also took issue with my betta fish and said she was going to kill it "for being a waste of time and not contributing to education".

She was highly unstable and after the fish comment I had enough to break my lease without any penalties.

My other experience with this type was also in my STEM field and she absolutely could not think for herself. Same thing again-no friends, anxiety, depression, rage issues, no ability to think critically or for herself without having previously seen it worked out in a book. Zero ability to adapt or adjust on our international project.

Two guys I knew ended up both financially successful but both are extremely angry and resentful towards their parents. One was lucky enough to do a field he semi-enjoys and the other hates it but can't/won't change because too many people are dependent on him financially and he already has a master's degree in it.
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Look, raising an academically successful child is easy. Raising a well-rounded and generally successful child is harder.

Successful children are independent, supported, and internally motivated. Nobody is motivated all of the time-they re-up their inspiration periodically. They need the support.

Also, if your child doesn't want to pursue something, especially at university, LISTEN TO THEM and help them find something they actually are interested in because they will do better rather than being permanently damaged , miserable and mediocre in the wrong field.

I believe that hard work is mandatory, that holding yourself to high standards of performance is important, and that being "active" is generally a good thing as you grow up. I admit that I do push my kids on these fronts.

But I'm not a "tiger parent." I don't dictate which activities they do, but I do ask that they pick some that they're into and apply themselves to them. And while I hope they can get into and choose a good college, I don't demand they go to the Ivy League. In fact, as an Ivy grad myself, I'd rather they didn't. The farther I get away from that world the more I see it as a curse rather than a blessing.

My mantra is more about helping my kids find what motivates them, and helping them pursue it with dedication, than picking a future for them and demanding that they follow it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given that Amy Chua and her husband both teach at Yale Law and are amazingly well-connected even compared to many of their peers, it's astonishing that she went all this effort. Her kids would have sailed into Harvard anyway.

OP. I don't know if they would have "sailed" in, but Amy Chua went to Harvard herself for college and both she and her husband went to Harvard Law. Legacy status is definitely an advantage at Harvard.

Especially for prominent alumni which definitely describes her even before this book. Her book World on Fire was a pretty big deal and she was well known in certain circles. I remember reading her writings for college classes.

I just think it’s a lot of wasted effort. The kid has drive or they don’t. You can teach them discipline and hard work without all this craziness and fighting.

Anonymous wrote:I tried but my kid just isn’t smart enough and your kid has to be fairly intelligent otherwise it’s just a waste effort. Sadly I have come to accept that my child could gain a couple of IQ points with intense studying but it would literally take every free hour of her time plus scaling back on other activities more and mine as well for very little pay off 😞 I have finally accepted after freshman year of high school that my child isn’t going to college. Even if she gets in, she would fail out pretty quick. The next 3 years just to do the basic level high school classes will be a struggle for her. I just hope she can pass. And no she doesn’t have any learning disabilities. She is just not that smart.

She may surprise you one day, PP.
I say this as someone considered smart in school but not successful as an adult.
My ex was the opposite.

My parents had tiger tendencies.
I am neither Asian nor come from a background where it was common; most were much more laid back. It basically was supplementing.
It led to good results up until it was time to get a job after graduation.
For some unknown reason I was never an outstanding employee; took a break in my career to have a baby, and after going back I experienced another setback and now I am more anxious than ever.
What I am saying is... it’s more important to make sure your child has healthy self esteem and emotional support at home, even when experiencing setbacks. It is more important to set an example of a healthy, productive adulthood, than to drill your child in numerous areas.
Also, my own child is much less of a people pleaser and has less academic stamina than I did, less motivation. He is bright but he doesn’t like school. I think raising him the way my mother raised me is just not going to work.
I try to be a sane, kind, knowledgeable adult in his life, try to expose him to as much as I can, and develop his interests as much as possible. I try to make sure he doesn’t fall behind at school, but being advanced doesn’t come as easily to him as it did to me (I am better carved for traditional school and was redshirted).
And then I just hope for the best.
Amazingly, his dad, who wasn’t as successful in school and was a college dropout and had to go back and earn his degree - is now more successful professionally than I am. You just never know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As described in Amy Chua's Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. I'm sure this was also discussed back in 2011, but wanted to read the perspectives of new posters.

Personally, I agreed with the emphasis on building work ethic but found a lot of what she described in the book unnecessary (making kids practice instruments for hours, calling her daughter "garbage"). Chua's daughters have both been academically successful--one graduated from Yale Law and the other is at Harvard Law. But many kids who don't have tiger parents are also successful.

Np To me, "Tiger parenting" is all about having a baby and not seeing the baby as an individual person with their own talents, needs and wants. It is all about YOU and how the child will fulfill your desire. You mold and or crush the child's spirit and let them know that if they don't achieve the highest level than you will withhold love from them. Who cares if they have talent in acting or painting? My community will think more highly of ME if my son/daughter goes to Harvard and becomes a doctor! Who cares if they are miserable and want to kill themselves? It is all about ME, ME, ME!

Exactly. A 3 year old child doesn’t know what Harvard is or want to play violin.

Tiger parenting is basically packaging a child for a school or career that the parent has chosen.

I don't know about the violin part. I've heard of violinists who decided that they wanted to start playing at 3.

Anonymous wrote:It must be nice to have history on your side

What do you mean?

It must be nice to have history on your side

Whatever success which entails calling a child "garbage" is not worth the emotional wounds.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As described in Amy Chua's Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. I'm sure this was also discussed back in 2011, but wanted to read the perspectives of new posters.

Personally, I agreed with the emphasis on building work ethic but found a lot of what she described in the book unnecessary (making kids practice instruments for hours, calling her daughter "garbage"). Chua's daughters have both been academically successful--one graduated from Yale Law and the other is at Harvard Law. But many kids who don't have tiger parents are also successful.

Np To me, "Tiger parenting" is all about having a baby and not seeing the baby as an individual person with their own talents, needs and wants. It is all about YOU and how the child will fulfill your desire. You mold and or crush the child's spirit and let them know that if they don't achieve the highest level than you will withhold love from them. Who cares if they have talent in acting or painting? My community will think more highly of ME if my son/daughter goes to Harvard and becomes a doctor! Who cares if they are miserable and want to kill themselves? It is all about ME, ME, ME!

Exactly. A 3 year old child doesn’t know what Harvard is or want to play violin.

Tiger parenting is basically packaging a child for a school or career that the parent has chosen.

I tried but my kid just isn’t smart enough and your kid has to be fairly intelligent otherwise it’s just a waste effort. Sadly I have come to accept that my child could gain a couple of IQ points with intense studying but it would literally take every free hour of her time plus scaling back on other activities more and mine as well for very little pay off 😞 I have finally accepted after freshman year of high school that my child isn’t going to college. Even if she gets in, she would fail out pretty quick. The next 3 years just to do the basic level high school classes will be a struggle for her. I just hope she can pass. And no she doesn’t have any learning disabilities. She is just not that smart.

My parents were tiger-parent-wannabes. They demanded academic excellence (I remember getting punished for a 93 on a test), but also refused to help me with schoolwork. If I needed help on an assignment, my mom would call me stupid and threaten to send me back a grade. Or I was in a gifted program, and my parents would get upset that my work wasn’t as advanced as the other kids’. But all the other kids had parents who were helping them.

I tried hard but without the support at home I started falling behind. In middle school I gave up and maintained a C average no matter how much my parents punished me. Also had severe depression.