Anonymous
07/14/2020 22:08
Subject: Re:How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Many people who discount luck as a factor (in marriage, in life) are simply blinded by privilege.
One of the biggest luck factors is the family you are born into. Some people are born into stable homes with mature, loving parents. Others are born into unstable homes with immature, struggling parents. That completely arbitrary event will affect how your marriage (and every other relationship in your life) operates throughout your life. People who have never experienced abuse or neglect might pat themselves on the back for their commitment and fidelity to their marriages, without ever understanding the role luck play into helping them develop a sense of self as a child that makes it easier for them to make "good" choices as an adult.
Of course, having said that, luck isn't everything. I experienced abuse and neglect as a child that has required years of therapy and work on my end to get to help me get to a point where I could be a good partner and parent to my own kids. That work was my choice. I got unlucky with my own family but I was determined to make sure my children would be lucky with theirs.
But then, I'm glossing over some of my own luck/privileges here. I've never had to deal with racism as a white person, which has made it easier for me to access mental health care and other resources to help me overcome my dysfunctional childhood. And while my parents were abusive and neglectful, I was extremely lucky to grow up in a place with great public schools and a strong community, which was a huge factor in me recognizing what was going on in my own family and deciding to break that cycle. Plus I have physical and mental advantages that have made it easier for me to earn money to help pay for all that therapy, and enabled me to wait to get married or have children when I felt I had the personal maturity and resources to do so responsibly. There's a ton of luck in that.
People who brag about their marriage, or any aspect of their life, without acknowledging the role of luck and privilege, simply don't understand how the world works on a deep level. Very, very fortunate people are often that way. They look at other people struggling and think, "Duh, why don't they just make the same choices I do." Or worse, they look at people struggling and think, "Gosh, I guess some people are just meant to struggle and others are meant to succeed." These ideas -- judgement and entitlement -- are very common. It doesn't make them wise or worthwhile.
Yes, all of this is correct.
Anonymous
07/14/2020 22:05
Subject: Re:How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Of course luck is a factor, and in fact a huge factor. Take the top two reasons couples fight and ultimately divorce: money and sex. Either one has an element of luck to it, meaning you could choose a career that tanks or gets hit by an economic change, get stricken with an illness that wipes out your savings, have a special needs child that does the same. Or they develop an illness, mental or physical, that destroys their libido, or hormonal changes that do the same after kids come.
There is no substitute for choosing wisely and looking for red flags but luck is as big of a factor as any.
+1 I spent a lot of time dating and considering and we discussed compatible money/parenting/family views. But we've been lucky in jobs, lucky in money, lucky in sexual compatibility and no illnesses that torpedo libidos (rhymes!). There's an element of luck in everything, and since everything matters luck is very important indeed.
Anonymous
07/14/2020 21:59
Subject: How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Luck is not a thing which exists. Trust, fidelity, integrity, commitment, love, and honor are some of the ingredients of a successful marriage. Lick is a justification people use to explain their particular negative marriage situation and ultimate failure.
How would you describe a marriage that failed because one partner became mentally ill? That wasn’t a failure of any kind on the part of the other person.
See: commitment
You can be as committed as you want to the marriage, but if they start hearing voices in their head which they believe is a supernatural being, and the voices tell them to leave you, it's over.
That is an extreme example. My dh has OCD and has gone off the deep end a few times. We work together to maintain his well being. I can't address your specific situation, but we knew about the diagnosis going into marriage.
It is not an "example" it is what actually happened to me. Such delusions are rare. And thus to have a marriage fail because of them is extremely unlucky, wouldn't you say?
I got quite a bit of professional advice to the effect that "you can't fix this, nobody can" - so anyone who blathers to me about "commitment to the marriage" is simply an ignoramus.
+1
I have a friend whose husband developed schizophrenia after they were married. She tried everything to help him but after he was arrested several times, almost bankrupted her and almost burned the house down she had to leave. It had nothing to do with commitment.
Anonymous
07/14/2020 20:25
Subject: Re:How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Many people who discount luck as a factor (in marriage, in life) are simply blinded by privilege.
One of the biggest luck factors is the family you are born into. Some people are born into stable homes with mature, loving parents. Others are born into unstable homes with immature, struggling parents. That completely arbitrary event will affect how your marriage (and every other relationship in your life) operates throughout your life. People who have never experienced abuse or neglect might pat themselves on the back for their commitment and fidelity to their marriages, without ever understanding the role luck play into helping them develop a sense of self as a child that makes it easier for them to make "good" choices as an adult.
Of course, having said that, luck isn't everything. I experienced abuse and neglect as a child that has required years of therapy and work on my end to get to help me get to a point where I could be a good partner and parent to my own kids. That work was my choice. I got unlucky with my own family but I was determined to make sure my children would be lucky with theirs.
But then, I'm glossing over some of my own luck/privileges here. I've never had to deal with racism as a white person, which has made it easier for me to access mental health care and other resources to help me overcome my dysfunctional childhood. And while my parents were abusive and neglectful, I was extremely lucky to grow up in a place with great public schools and a strong community, which was a huge factor in me recognizing what was going on in my own family and deciding to break that cycle. Plus I have physical and mental advantages that have made it easier for me to earn money to help pay for all that therapy, and enabled me to wait to get married or have children when I felt I had the personal maturity and resources to do so responsibly. There's a ton of luck in that.
People who brag about their marriage, or any aspect of their life, without acknowledging the role of luck and privilege, simply don't understand how the world works on a deep level. Very, very fortunate people are often that way. They look at other people struggling and think, "Duh, why don't they just make the same choices I do." Or worse, they look at people struggling and think, "Gosh, I guess some people are just meant to struggle and others are meant to succeed." These ideas -- judgement and entitlement -- are very common. It doesn't make them wise or worthwhile.
This is so true, agree 100%. Thank you for posting.
Anonymous
07/14/2020 15:09
Subject: How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Luck is not a thing which exists. Trust, fidelity, integrity, commitment, love, and honor are some of the ingredients of a successful marriage. Lick is a justification people use to explain their particular negative marriage situation and ultimate failure.
How would you describe a marriage that failed because one partner became mentally ill? That wasn’t a failure of any kind on the part of the other person.
See: commitment
You can be as committed as you want to the marriage, but if they start hearing voices in their head which they believe is a supernatural being, and the voices tell them to leave you, it's over.
Commitment only goes so far when you loving husband of many years is suddenly plagued by untreated childhood issues and it manifests itself in crazy and harmful ways.
Anonymous
07/14/2020 14:48
Subject: How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
I don't think it's luck. I think it's being able to suss out values and morals/ethics in another person.
It's luck if say ... addiction doesn't affect someone who has a history of addiction in prior generations.
But other than that it's hard work. I've had some outrageously difficult conversations with DH. I've cried. I've been embarrassed. But I feel 100x closer to him than anyone else. He's said the same because he's been in the same situation I've been in.
It's luck if say ... addiction doesn't affect someone who has a history of addiction in prior generations.
But other than that it's hard work. I've had some outrageously difficult conversations with DH. I've cried. I've been embarrassed. But I feel 100x closer to him than anyone else. He's said the same because he's been in the same situation I've been in.
Anonymous
07/14/2020 14:47
Subject: How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Luck is not a thing which exists. Trust, fidelity, integrity, commitment, love, and honor are some of the ingredients of a successful marriage. Lick is a justification people use to explain their particular negative marriage situation and ultimate failure.
How would you describe a marriage that failed because one partner became mentally ill? That wasn’t a failure of any kind on the part of the other person.
Thinking the same thing. Many marriages don't survive the death of a child, a cancer diagnosis, etc. Person number 1 here sounds intolerably smug.
I guess I'm smug then. We dated for many years before marriage and have been married 25+ years. We have survived: mental illness, physical illnesses, having a special needs child, multiple family deaths, ongoing health issues to name several challenges we've faced. There have been some sh!t times, but we have never wavered in our love and commitment.
Maybe I’m smug. We dated for many years before marriage and have been married 25+ years. We have survived: mental illness, physical illnesses, having a special needs child, multiple family deaths, ongoing health issues to name several challenges we've faced. But now that the kids are grown I’m ready to go at it on my own.
Maybe it because I can and others can’t... finances, fear of being alone, thinking “staying no matter what” is Nobel, shackled by religion. Who knows why.
Anonymous
07/14/2020 14:46
Subject: How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Luck is not a thing which exists. Trust, fidelity, integrity, commitment, love, and honor are some of the ingredients of a successful marriage. Lick is a justification people use to explain their particular negative marriage situation and ultimate failure.
How would you describe a marriage that failed because one partner became mentally ill? That wasn’t a failure of any kind on the part of the other person.
See: commitment
You can be as committed as you want to the marriage, but if they start hearing voices in their head which they believe is a supernatural being, and the voices tell them to leave you, it's over.
That is an extreme example. My dh has OCD and has gone off the deep end a few times. We work together to maintain his well being. I can't address your specific situation, but we knew about the diagnosis going into marriage.
It is not an "example" it is what actually happened to me. Such delusions are rare. And thus to have a marriage fail because of them is extremely unlucky, wouldn't you say?
I got quite a bit of professional advice to the effect that "you can't fix this, nobody can" - so anyone who blathers to me about "commitment to the marriage" is simply an ignoramus.
Anonymous
07/14/2020 14:43
Subject: Re:How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
Many people who discount luck as a factor (in marriage, in life) are simply blinded by privilege.
One of the biggest luck factors is the family you are born into. Some people are born into stable homes with mature, loving parents. Others are born into unstable homes with immature, struggling parents. That completely arbitrary event will affect how your marriage (and every other relationship in your life) operates throughout your life. People who have never experienced abuse or neglect might pat themselves on the back for their commitment and fidelity to their marriages, without ever understanding the role luck play into helping them develop a sense of self as a child that makes it easier for them to make "good" choices as an adult.
Of course, having said that, luck isn't everything. I experienced abuse and neglect as a child that has required years of therapy and work on my end to get to help me get to a point where I could be a good partner and parent to my own kids. That work was my choice. I got unlucky with my own family but I was determined to make sure my children would be lucky with theirs.
But then, I'm glossing over some of my own luck/privileges here. I've never had to deal with racism as a white person, which has made it easier for me to access mental health care and other resources to help me overcome my dysfunctional childhood. And while my parents were abusive and neglectful, I was extremely lucky to grow up in a place with great public schools and a strong community, which was a huge factor in me recognizing what was going on in my own family and deciding to break that cycle. Plus I have physical and mental advantages that have made it easier for me to earn money to help pay for all that therapy, and enabled me to wait to get married or have children when I felt I had the personal maturity and resources to do so responsibly. There's a ton of luck in that.
People who brag about their marriage, or any aspect of their life, without acknowledging the role of luck and privilege, simply don't understand how the world works on a deep level. Very, very fortunate people are often that way. They look at other people struggling and think, "Duh, why don't they just make the same choices I do." Or worse, they look at people struggling and think, "Gosh, I guess some people are just meant to struggle and others are meant to succeed." These ideas -- judgement and entitlement -- are very common. It doesn't make them wise or worthwhile.
One of the biggest luck factors is the family you are born into. Some people are born into stable homes with mature, loving parents. Others are born into unstable homes with immature, struggling parents. That completely arbitrary event will affect how your marriage (and every other relationship in your life) operates throughout your life. People who have never experienced abuse or neglect might pat themselves on the back for their commitment and fidelity to their marriages, without ever understanding the role luck play into helping them develop a sense of self as a child that makes it easier for them to make "good" choices as an adult.
Of course, having said that, luck isn't everything. I experienced abuse and neglect as a child that has required years of therapy and work on my end to get to help me get to a point where I could be a good partner and parent to my own kids. That work was my choice. I got unlucky with my own family but I was determined to make sure my children would be lucky with theirs.
But then, I'm glossing over some of my own luck/privileges here. I've never had to deal with racism as a white person, which has made it easier for me to access mental health care and other resources to help me overcome my dysfunctional childhood. And while my parents were abusive and neglectful, I was extremely lucky to grow up in a place with great public schools and a strong community, which was a huge factor in me recognizing what was going on in my own family and deciding to break that cycle. Plus I have physical and mental advantages that have made it easier for me to earn money to help pay for all that therapy, and enabled me to wait to get married or have children when I felt I had the personal maturity and resources to do so responsibly. There's a ton of luck in that.
People who brag about their marriage, or any aspect of their life, without acknowledging the role of luck and privilege, simply don't understand how the world works on a deep level. Very, very fortunate people are often that way. They look at other people struggling and think, "Duh, why don't they just make the same choices I do." Or worse, they look at people struggling and think, "Gosh, I guess some people are just meant to struggle and others are meant to succeed." These ideas -- judgement and entitlement -- are very common. It doesn't make them wise or worthwhile.
Anonymous
07/14/2020 14:37
Subject: How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Luck is not a thing which exists. Trust, fidelity, integrity, commitment, love, and honor are some of the ingredients of a successful marriage. Lick is a justification people use to explain their particular negative marriage situation and ultimate failure.
How would you describe a marriage that failed because one partner became mentally ill? That wasn’t a failure of any kind on the part of the other person.
See: commitment
You can be as committed as you want to the marriage, but if they start hearing voices in their head which they believe is a supernatural being, and the voices tell them to leave you, it's over.
That is an extreme example. My dh has OCD and has gone off the deep end a few times. We work together to maintain his well being. I can't address your specific situation, but we knew about the diagnosis going into marriage.
Anonymous
07/14/2020 14:33
Subject: How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
This is worse than the sah vs woh debate. Luck isn't a thing. If I have tremendously good luck for the fact that I have a successful marriage, then maybe I should try my luck on the horse races. It's dumb to ignore the fact that people make choices every day which affect their relationships. People who want good marriages make choices which enrich the relationships. Bad things happen in life. Things we can't control or predict. Mutual commitment and love get you through and keep you together.
Anonymous
07/14/2020 14:27
Subject: How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Luck is not a thing which exists. Trust, fidelity, integrity, commitment, love, and honor are some of the ingredients of a successful marriage. Lick is a justification people use to explain their particular negative marriage situation and ultimate failure.
How would you describe a marriage that failed because one partner became mentally ill? That wasn’t a failure of any kind on the part of the other person.
See: commitment
You can be as committed as you want to the marriage, but if they start hearing voices in their head which they believe is a supernatural being, and the voices tell them to leave you, it's over.
Anonymous
07/14/2020 14:26
Subject: How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Luck is not a thing which exists. Trust, fidelity, integrity, commitment, love, and honor are some of the ingredients of a successful marriage. Lick is a justification people use to explain their particular negative marriage situation and ultimate failure.
How would you describe a marriage that failed because one partner became mentally ill? That wasn’t a failure of any kind on the part of the other person.
Thinking the same thing. Many marriages don't survive the death of a child, a cancer diagnosis, etc. Person number 1 here sounds intolerably smug.
I guess I'm smug then. We dated for many years before marriage and have been married 25+ years. We have survived: mental illness, physical illnesses, having a special needs child, multiple family deaths, ongoing health issues to name several challenges we've faced. There have been some sh!t times, but we have never wavered in our love and commitment.
Anonymous
07/14/2020 14:23
Subject: How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Luck is not a thing which exists. Trust, fidelity, integrity, commitment, love, and honor are some of the ingredients of a successful marriage. Lick is a justification people use to explain their particular negative marriage situation and ultimate failure.
How would you describe a marriage that failed because one partner became mentally ill? That wasn’t a failure of any kind on the part of the other person.
See: commitment
See: abuse
Anonymous
07/14/2020 14:21
Subject: How come luck is not often mentioned as part of a successful marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Luck is not a thing which exists. Trust, fidelity, integrity, commitment, love, and honor are some of the ingredients of a successful marriage. Lick is a justification people use to explain their particular negative marriage situation and ultimate failure.
How would you describe a marriage that failed because one partner became mentally ill? That wasn’t a failure of any kind on the part of the other person.
See: commitment