Anonymous wrote:

But once you’re accepted, you’re supposed to withdraw the other applications. And you may not have the full financial aid picture at that point. I’ve seen various experts raise this as a concern. Once you figure out that the aid is not available (which can include loans, by the way) and you get out from rather ED, it may be too late to reapply to the others (and, in any case, they now know they’re not your first choice). It’s not as simple as you’re making it sound.

DP here. Yes, it is exactly as simple as the PP says. You do not have to withdraw other applications until you receive the financial aid offer, which usually comes with or near the acceptance. Don't withdraw until you have it and confirm it is at least as good as the NPC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We used the full pay advantage by having DD apply at Northwestern Early Decision.

Regular acceptance rates are about 11%. Early decision acceptance rate is about 25%.

I am not sure but believe that when one applies early decision one is applying without knowing what if any financial/merit aid will be.

Of course this is assuming that people are too f-ing stupid to use the NPC available on every website. And, they can not matriculate if the aid award is too small.

But of course, logical argument isn't the strong point of the DCUM crew.

Sorry, ED does not demonstrate full pay, only strong interest.

You are the one who is to mentally challenged to understand the benefits of being able to shop amongst several options. The financial aid can include loans, and, believe it or not, being able to consider merit aid that will avoid or limit the amount of loans someone may have to take out makes a difference to a lot of people.

Also, you have to withdraw other applications. It’s possible that you may not know about the full financial aid picture in time to submit applications to other schools. There are lots of experts out there who say that applying ED is not smart for kids that are dependent on financial aid. But you know better.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2018-10-03/how-applying-early-for-college-affects-financial-aid

If you are not applying to additional schools before, during and after your ED application you are committing malpractice. You have to assume that you will be DENIED from your ED school and apply elsewhere accordingly. My kid already had 7 applications filed and 3 admissions before she heard from her ED school.

But once you’re accepted, you’re supposed to withdraw the other applications. And you may not have the full financial aid picture at that point. I’ve seen various experts raise this as a concern. Once you figure out that the aid is not available (which can include loans, by the way) and you get out from rather ED, it may be too late to reapply to the others (and, in any case, they now know they’re not your first choice). It’s not as simple as you’re making it sound.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We used the full pay advantage by having DD apply at Northwestern Early Decision.

Regular acceptance rates are about 11%. Early decision acceptance rate is about 25%.

I am not sure but believe that when one applies early decision one is applying without knowing what if any financial/merit aid will be.

Of course this is assuming that people are too f-ing stupid to use the NPC available on every website. And, they can not matriculate if the aid award is too small.

But of course, logical argument isn't the strong point of the DCUM crew.

Sorry, ED does not demonstrate full pay, only strong interest.

You are the one who is to mentally challenged to understand the benefits of being able to shop amongst several options. The financial aid can include loans, and, believe it or not, being able to consider merit aid that will avoid or limit the amount of loans someone may have to take out makes a difference to a lot of people.

Also, you have to withdraw other applications. It’s possible that you may not know about the full financial aid picture in time to submit applications to other schools. There are lots of experts out there who say that applying ED is not smart for kids that are dependent on financial aid. But you know better.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2018-10-03/how-applying-early-for-college-affects-financial-aid

If you are not applying to additional schools before, during and after your ED application you are committing malpractice. You have to assume that you will be DENIED from your ED school and apply elsewhere accordingly. My kid already had 7 applications filed and 3 admissions before she heard from her ED school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We used the full pay advantage by having DD apply at Northwestern Early Decision.

Regular acceptance rates are about 11%. Early decision acceptance rate is about 25%.

I am not sure but believe that when one applies early decision one is applying without knowing what if any financial/merit aid will be.

This. If your child has a dream school, apply early decision but be aware this means your are on the hook. You can apply for FA and may receive it but....They could say no.

That is why you run the NET PRICE CALCULATOR before applying ED and print out the results. There should never be a surprise. If you don't get at least what the NPC says you will receive in financial aid then you do not have to go if accepted and are free to apply and go elsewhere.

Anonymous wrote:So here’s my question: DC1 is starting college this fall. He has enough merit aid we will never apply need based. DC2 is two years behind. NPC shows that we will probably get $20,000 a year for the two years the kids overlap. She is considering SLACs— midwestern and NESCAC. How much does it hurt a kid to have Some need two years, but still pay $60k/ year and be full pay the last two? Do colleges only look at year one? Or do they factor in the temporary nature of two in college?

?????

Anonymous wrote:Don't count on it. Can't count on anything. That also means there may be some surprises. And those could be good surprises. Apply widely. We were full pay, and DD got merit aid (did not file the FAFSA) at 5 schools, anywhere from 2K to 16K per year. You can not anticipate. I do think that at full pay, the school knows the student -could- attend if admitted, money is not going to prevent it. I do not think that will necessarily mean the student will be required to pay the full amount.

You can not anticipate this. You can't. Apply widely.

Listen to this PP. Good overall advice!

People come here looking for magic formulas re: pay status, test scores, GPAs, how many APs, which HS extracurriculars "look good to colleges," etc. all add up to the perfect candidate on paper for college X or Y. There is no one magic formula but there's a lot of what I'd call arcane alchemy in admissions. DCs need to hone great essays and be very specific and detailed about "why I want to go to college X." Parents, let your kid do whatever extracurriculars they really genuinely CARE about (which makes them better able to write convincingly about those activities--colleges can spot resume-padding clubs and "officer" positions instantly). And as PP says -- apply widely. Yes, paying/financial aid/merit/whatever is key, but seeking out formulas like "don't apply to this one college unless you're full pay" just are not things to count on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We used the full pay advantage by having DD apply at Northwestern Early Decision.

Regular acceptance rates are about 11%. Early decision acceptance rate is about 25%.

I am not sure but believe that when one applies early decision one is applying without knowing what if any financial/merit aid will be.

This. If your child has a dream school, apply early decision but be aware this means your are on the hook. You can apply for FA and may receive it but....They could say no.

Except no one has reported or shown that the net price calculator has misled them, so if you can afford that price you can apply early

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No matter what a university says, full pay is always an advantage.

FALSE!

Universities DO NO LIE about this. They have NO REASON TO. The list of colleges that are need blind and meet full need is a TINY PERCENTAGE. You have NO FACTS to the contrary. Capitals are used because this has been discussed here SO MANY TIMES so apparently emphasis is needed.

If this is the former admissions officer that feels so strongly about this topic, how can you be confident that what you experienced at YOUR school is what happens at ALL need blind schools. Further, if you FORMERLY worked as an admissions officer, couldn't the post-Covid environment be different than what you experienced?

Because there is ZERO EVIDENCE that they are lying. Not one testimony, not one document, nothing, despite the years of this flat-earth style conspiracy theory that goes back decades. Not pre-COVID or post-COVID. None.

/not the former admissions officer but you ignored that person also so who can convince you the earth is a sphere?

NP. You keep thinking if you shout it loudly enough, it will be true. And you are the flat-earther. There can be all of the data and circumstantial evidence in the world, but if you haven’t personally seen it yourself, you don’t believe it’s true.

FWIW, OP, the general consensus last time we had this debate (with the exception of OP), is that there are a handful of colleges (Harvard and a maybe a few others) that are rich enough to afford to be truly need blind. It’s possible that some that claimed to be “need blind” could do so for US students because they counted on a substantial # of full-pay students from abroad. From what we are hearing from kids coming off the wait-list this year, the absence of international students has stripped the cover off of that pretense. Full-pay kids that would have not gotten in in previous years are suddenly moving up the wait list. It’s going to be a different world if those international students don’t come back in 2021 & after.

You don’t have circumstantial evidence. You don’t have any evidence of any kind. You are the flat earther.

I repeat:

Colleges that claim to be need-blind in admissions are in fact need blind in admissions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No matter what a university says, full pay is always an advantage.

FALSE!

Universities DO NO LIE about this. They have NO REASON TO. The list of colleges that are need blind and meet full need is a TINY PERCENTAGE. You have NO FACTS to the contrary. Capitals are used because this has been discussed here SO MANY TIMES so apparently emphasis is needed.

If this is the former admissions officer that feels so strongly about this topic, how can you be confident that what you experienced at YOUR school is what happens at ALL need blind schools. Further, if you FORMERLY worked as an admissions officer, couldn't the post-Covid environment be different than what you experienced?

Because there is ZERO EVIDENCE that they are lying. Not one testimony, not one document, nothing, despite the years of this flat-earth style conspiracy theory that goes back decades. Not pre-COVID or post-COVID. None.

/not the former admissions officer but you ignored that person also so who can convince you the earth is a sphere?

NP. You keep thinking if you shout it loudly enough, it will be true. And you are the flat-earther. There can be all of the data and circumstantial evidence in the world, but if you haven’t personally seen it yourself, you don’t believe it’s true.

FWIW, OP, the general consensus last time we had this debate (with the exception of OP), is that there are a handful of colleges (Harvard and a maybe a few others) that are rich enough to afford to be truly need blind. It’s possible that some that claimed to be “need blind” could do so for US students because they counted on a substantial # of full-pay students from abroad. From what we are hearing from kids coming off the wait-list this year, the absence of international students has stripped the cover off of that pretense. Full-pay kids that would have not gotten in in previous years are suddenly moving up the wait list. It’s going to be a different world if those international students don’t come back in 2021 & after.

From Money magazine:

Colleges that are “need blind” admit students without regard to their financial need, while colleges that are “need aware” or “need sensitive” may consider applicants’ ability to pay when admitting them.

The terms are somewhat misleading, though. For one, these cases only apply to a minority of colleges — those that are selective enough to reject many qualified applicants. And there are plenty of ways a “need-blind” college can infer an applicant’s financial background without reviewing their financial aid materials. Details like parental occupation, home zip code, or school district can hint at a family’s socioeconomic status.

There are also very few colleges—about two dozen—that are wealthy enough to truly be need-blind while also meeting full need.

“Everybody else [has] to make sure they don’t spend more than the budget allows” Malatesta says.

That means the other colleges that describe themselves as need-blind may be “gapping” students, or admitting them even though there will be a gap between what the college is able to provide in financial aid and what the family can afford to pay.

Other colleges are need-blind but draw in such a wealthy crop of students that they still meet their financial aid budget, Malatesta says.

https://money.com/colleges-that-meet-full-financial-need/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We used the full pay advantage by having DD apply at Northwestern Early Decision.

Regular acceptance rates are about 11%. Early decision acceptance rate is about 25%.

I am not sure but believe that when one applies early decision one is applying without knowing what if any financial/merit aid will be.

Of course this is assuming that people are too f-ing stupid to use the NPC available on every website. And, they can not matriculate if the aid award is too small.

But of course, logical argument isn't the strong point of the DCUM crew.

Sorry, ED does not demonstrate full pay, only strong interest.

You are the one who is to mentally challenged to understand the benefits of being able to shop amongst several options. The financial aid can include loans, and, believe it or not, being able to consider merit aid that will avoid or limit the amount of loans someone may have to take out makes a difference to a lot of people.

Also, you have to withdraw other applications. It’s possible that you may not know about the full financial aid picture in time to submit applications to other schools. There are lots of experts out there who say that applying ED is not smart for kids that are dependent on financial aid. But you know better.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2018-10-03/how-applying-early-for-college-affects-financial-aid

*too mentally challenged

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We used the full pay advantage by having DD apply at Northwestern Early Decision.

Regular acceptance rates are about 11%. Early decision acceptance rate is about 25%.

I am not sure but believe that when one applies early decision one is applying without knowing what if any financial/merit aid will be.

Of course this is assuming that people are too f-ing stupid to use the NPC available on every website. And, they can not matriculate if the aid award is too small.

But of course, logical argument isn't the strong point of the DCUM crew.

Sorry, ED does not demonstrate full pay, only strong interest.

You are the one who is to mentally challenged to understand the benefits of being able to shop amongst several options. The financial aid can include loans, and, believe it or not, being able to consider merit aid that will avoid or limit the amount of loans someone may have to take out makes a difference to a lot of people.

Also, you have to withdraw other applications. It’s possible that you may not know about the full financial aid picture in time to submit applications to other schools. There are lots of experts out there who say that applying ED is not smart for kids that are dependent on financial aid. But you know better.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2018-10-03/how-applying-early-for-college-affects-financial-aid

Anonymous wrote:We used the full pay advantage by having DD apply at Northwestern Early Decision.

Regular acceptance rates are about 11%. Early decision acceptance rate is about 25%.

I am not sure but believe that when one applies early decision one is applying without knowing what if any financial/merit aid will be.

This. If your child has a dream school, apply early decision but be aware this means your are on the hook. You can apply for FA and may receive it but....They could say no.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No matter what a university says, full pay is always an advantage.

FALSE!

Universities DO NO LIE about this. They have NO REASON TO. The list of colleges that are need blind and meet full need is a TINY PERCENTAGE. You have NO FACTS to the contrary. Capitals are used because this has been discussed here SO MANY TIMES so apparently emphasis is needed.

If this is the former admissions officer that feels so strongly about this topic, how can you be confident that what you experienced at YOUR school is what happens at ALL need blind schools. Further, if you FORMERLY worked as an admissions officer, couldn't the post-Covid environment be different than what you experienced?

Because there is ZERO EVIDENCE that they are lying. Not one testimony, not one document, nothing, despite the years of this flat-earth style conspiracy theory that goes back decades. Not pre-COVID or post-COVID. None.

/not the former admissions officer but you ignored that person also so who can convince you the earth is a sphere?

NP. You keep thinking if you shout it loudly enough, it will be true. And you are the flat-earther. There can be all of the data and circumstantial evidence in the world, but if you haven’t personally seen it yourself, you don’t believe it’s true.

FWIW, OP, the general consensus last time we had this debate (with the exception of OP), is that there are a handful of colleges (Harvard and a maybe a few others) that are rich enough to afford to be truly need blind. It’s possible that some that claimed to be “need blind” could do so for US students because they counted on a substantial # of full-pay students from abroad. From what we are hearing from kids coming off the wait-list this year, the absence of international students has stripped the cover off of that pretense. Full-pay kids that would have not gotten in in previous years are suddenly moving up the wait list. It’s going to be a different world if those international students don’t come back in 2021 & after.

"We are in the same situation but #2 graduated this year. We filled out all the paperwork FAFSA and CSS profile. Our expected family contribution indicated we would get about 20K for the overlap years. #2 was applying to highly selective schools with no merit aid. Well, unfortunately schools have no requirement to meet the expected family contribution amount shown by FASFA. We are getting no aid for the overlap years. So the answer to your question is yes, you can qualify for different aid depending on how many kids are at school at the same time...but don't count on it."

+1

Exactly, don't count on it. We in a similar situation and were shocked when the calculators told us we might get $20K. We talked to admissions and they said, if you are shocked, don't count on it.

The calculator is set up for certain standard cases if you don't fall into them, the CSS can lead to all sorts of numbers when it's done by a person rather than by computer.

Anonymous wrote:Don't count on it. Can't count on anything. That also means there may be some surprises. And those could be good surprises. Apply widely. We were full pay, and DD got merit aid (did not file the FAFSA) at 5 schools, anywhere from 2K to 16K per year. You can not anticipate. I do think that at full pay, the school knows the student -could- attend if admitted, money is not going to prevent it. I do not think that will necessarily mean the student will be required to pay the full amount.

You can not anticipate this. You can't. Apply widely.

+1. We are full pay and my kid got money from Pitt, Grinnell, St. Olaf, Oberlin, Kenyon, Wooster . . . All but Pitt above $20k