Anonymous wrote:Harping on everything may have the opposite effect of your goal. Wouldn't it be better to stick to the big issues?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a school music teacher, I would say there IS musical value to these songs (e.g. "Oh, Susanna," "I've been working on the railroad,"), which is why they have lasted. I could go into the technical reasons such as the easy voice range, the step-wise melodies, and the appealing syncopations that encourage body movement and dance. These are musical qualities that appeal to children and encourage them to sing. The sentiments in all of them (as we sing them today) have nothing to do with race or demeaning anyone. Most are about work or play or love and are easy for young children to sing, understand, memorize and perform for themselves or others. In fact, I think the reason why the lyrics were changed was due to the musical value of the tunes. You will find outdated verses and lines in the great songs of Stephen Foster and others, but these are part of the songbook of American and influenced many composers that followed them.

YES. the history of the songs is worth knowing and researching,but that's something you teach at a developmentally appropriate time. But I do not think it's worth expunging these songs from early childhood learning because of a misguided fear that a child will become racist.

It's not about a fear that children will become racist (although you are encouraging a certain kind of ignorance). It’s about what the song actually is, its nasty history, and the entire race of people who are hurt and offended by its continued presence in our culture and the idea that we should just pretend that it isnt what it is.

This is like the gaslighting that goes on about the civil war, confederate flags, and statues.

DP. It's not like that at all. Music has a very broad base and incorporates many influences. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.

These songs don't have many influences. They are racist songs that were sung to mock black people, and all that has changed are the lyrics.

Anonymous wrote:File under, “stupid things white suburban women are concerned about today”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a school music teacher, I would say there IS musical value to these songs (e.g. "Oh, Susanna," "I've been working on the railroad,"), which is why they have lasted. I could go into the technical reasons such as the easy voice range, the step-wise melodies, and the appealing syncopations that encourage body movement and dance. These are musical qualities that appeal to children and encourage them to sing. The sentiments in all of them (as we sing them today) have nothing to do with race or demeaning anyone. Most are about work or play or love and are easy for young children to sing, understand, memorize and perform for themselves or others. In fact, I think the reason why the lyrics were changed was due to the musical value of the tunes. You will find outdated verses and lines in the great songs of Stephen Foster and others, but these are part of the songbook of American and influenced many composers that followed them.

YES. the history of the songs is worth knowing and researching,but that's something you teach at a developmentally appropriate time. But I do not think it's worth expunging these songs from early childhood learning because of a misguided fear that a child will become racist.

It's not about a fear that children will become racist (although you are encouraging a certain kind of ignorance). It’s about what the song actually is, its nasty history, and the entire race of people who are hurt and offended by its continued presence in our culture and the idea that we should just pretend that it isnt what it is.

This is like the gaslighting that goes on about the civil war, confederate flags, and statues.

DP. It's not like that at all. Music has a very broad base and incorporates many influences. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.

Anonymous wrote:Excuse my un-wokeness but I’m not going to stop singing these.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a school music teacher, I would say there IS musical value to these songs (e.g. "Oh, Susanna," "I've been working on the railroad,"), which is why they have lasted. I could go into the technical reasons such as the easy voice range, the step-wise melodies, and the appealing syncopations that encourage body movement and dance. These are musical qualities that appeal to children and encourage them to sing. The sentiments in all of them (as we sing them today) have nothing to do with race or demeaning anyone. Most are about work or play or love and are easy for young children to sing, understand, memorize and perform for themselves or others. In fact, I think the reason why the lyrics were changed was due to the musical value of the tunes. You will find outdated verses and lines in the great songs of Stephen Foster and others, but these are part of the songbook of American and influenced many composers that followed them.

YES. the history of the songs is worth knowing and researching,but that's something you teach at a developmentally appropriate time. But I do not think it's worth expunging these songs from early childhood learning because of a misguided fear that a child will become racist.

It's not about a fear that children will become racist (although you are encouraging a certain kind of ignorance). It’s about what the song actually is, its nasty history, and the entire race of people who are hurt and offended by its continued presence in our culture and the idea that we should just pretend that it isnt what it is.

This is like the gaslighting that goes on about the civil war, confederate flags, and statues.

Anonymous wrote:As a school music teacher, I would say there IS musical value to these songs (e.g. "Oh, Susanna," "I've been working on the railroad,"), which is why they have lasted. I could go into the technical reasons such as the easy voice range, the step-wise melodies, and the appealing syncopations that encourage body movement and dance. These are musical qualities that appeal to children and encourage them to sing. The sentiments in all of them (as we sing them today) have nothing to do with race or demeaning anyone. Most are about work or play or love and are easy for young children to sing, understand, memorize and perform for themselves or others. In fact, I think the reason why the lyrics were changed was due to the musical value of the tunes. You will find outdated verses and lines in the great songs of Stephen Foster and others, but these are part of the songbook of American and influenced many composers that followed them.

YES. the history of the songs is worth knowing and researching,but that's something you teach at a developmentally appropriate time. But I do not think it's worth expunging these songs from early childhood learning because of a misguided fear that a child will become racist.

Anonymous wrote:As a school music teacher, I would say there IS musical value to these songs (e.g. "Oh, Susanna," "I've been working on the railroad,"), which is why they have lasted. I could go into the technical reasons such as the easy voice range, the step-wise melodies, and the appealing syncopations that encourage body movement and dance. These are musical qualities that appeal to children and encourage them to sing. The sentiments in all of them (as we sing them today) have nothing to do with race or demeaning anyone. Most are about work or play or love and are easy for young children to sing, understand, memorize and perform for themselves or others. In fact, I think the reason why the lyrics were changed was due to the musical value of the tunes. You will find outdated verses and lines in the great songs of Stephen Foster and others, but these are part of the songbook of American and influenced many composers that followed them.

YES. the history of the songs is worth knowing and researching,but that's something you teach at a developmentally appropriate time. But I do not think it's worth expunging these songs from early childhood learning because of a misguided fear that a child will become racist.

Anonymous wrote:Reclaiming minstrel songs:

https://www.theavidlistener.com/2017/07/before-it-goes-away-performance-and-reclamation-of-songs-from-blackface-minstrelsy.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the original lyrics for Oh Susannah are quite different from the modern lyrics. That means we should never sing the modern version?

I don't understand.

Changing the lyrics doesn't change its origins in minstrelsy. It was an ugly form of entertainment, and all vestiges of it need to go. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it remains a pig.

I disagree. The lyrics were changed because the words were problematic. That was recognized already. The songs persist because they're good music. We should celebrate that, not throw it out.