I was an IVF baby and that question honestly has never crossed my mind. If and when I am in that situation myself though, I morally could not make the decision to discard embryos.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Tell them. Especially in these times with reproductive Rights under threat they should know about ivf and other reproductive technologies. God willing they never need it but they should have the option it they do.

Reproductive technologies are the flip side of pregnancy terminations. When one is under threat, both are under threat.

Yup, this. Also point out that having the freedom to destroy the embryos you didn't need made the process more efficient and financially manageable.

Because imagine a world where you, as the mom, would have been forced to have each and every embryo implanted and carried to term as part of the process. That is what antichoice advocates want. Or should want, unless they are completely hypocritical.

I think most antichoice advocates would either want limits on how many embryos you can create, or to stop IVF altogether.

IVF is against Catholic teaching if that is of any concern. Not sure about other Christian religions or other religions

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many embryos don’t make it so many don’t survive the freeze and thaw process. So many don’t implant. They are not children.

That’s a reason to view ART with skepticism, not to deny the humanity of these tiny humans.

NP here. Speaking as someone who did 5 rounds of IVF, biology does not intend all embryos to become babies. The process is VERY inefficient and even in young, healthy couples, a high percentage of eggs that fertilize and develop enough to become embryos are genetically abnormal and unable to continue development. The rate is around 50% for women under 30 and goes down after that. And even genetically normal embryos only successfully implant and become continued pregnancies 70% of the time, at the very most. They are not only NOT humans, it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to become humans because they are not genetically complete. That's how human reproduction works, and it's a reality that hits you hard when you do IVF.

Or maybe biology intended it to be that way, but our bodies don't work as designed all the time anymore.

No. Irrelevant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Tell them. Especially in these times with reproductive Rights under threat they should know about ivf and other reproductive technologies. God willing they never need it but they should have the option it they do.

Reproductive technologies are the flip side of pregnancy terminations. When one is under threat, both are under threat.

Yup, this. Also point out that having the freedom to destroy the embryos you didn't need made the process more efficient and financially manageable.

Because imagine a world where you, as the mom, would have been forced to have each and every embryo implanted and carried to term as part of the process. That is what antichoice advocates want. Or should want, unless they are completely hypocritical.

I think most antichoice advocates would either want limits on how many embryos you can create, or to stop IVF altogether.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you mean when they are older?

I can't imagine that I'd chose to do IVF, and discard embryos if DH and I weren't both 100% prochoice, in which we'd be passing those values on to our child, and I'd hope he or she would be OK with that choice.

Beyond that, I can't imagine what else to say. Are you considering lying? So, your child grows up enough to be curious and asks and you lie? Tell them you tried them all? Or that only one embryo was made?

So then what would you do with the embryos if you’re done having children? Pay storage fees forever??

I'm the PP you're responding to. I'm prochoice. I would have no problem discarding embryos. I mean, maybe some problem just in that I had gone to a huge amount of work to create them, and it would be like discarding anything else that represented blood, sweat and tears. My writing above wasn't in the hypothetical because I wouldn't do it, it's just that I don't have any IVF kids to talk to about it.

But if I didn't feel that way, and I thought of embryos as babies, then I imagine that I wouldn't do IVF, or wouldn't do IVF in a way that carried a risk of creating embryos that I didn't use. I'd adopt someone else's embryos, or create one at a time (is that I thing, I've never looked into it), or I'd adopt a child (which I did, actually, but not because of my beliefs around abortion).

I thought pro choice simply meant that one was in favor of allowing others to make the choice, not necessarily that one would make that choice themselves.

Well yes, but I am both prochoice for other people, and comfortable with the idea of discarding my own.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you mean when they are older?

I can't imagine that I'd chose to do IVF, and discard embryos if DH and I weren't both 100% prochoice, in which we'd be passing those values on to our child, and I'd hope he or she would be OK with that choice.

Beyond that, I can't imagine what else to say. Are you considering lying? So, your child grows up enough to be curious and asks and you lie? Tell them you tried them all? Or that only one embryo was made?

So then what would you do with the embryos if you’re done having children? Pay storage fees forever??

I'm the PP you're responding to. I'm prochoice. I would have no problem discarding embryos. I mean, maybe some problem just in that I had gone to a huge amount of work to create them, and it would be like discarding anything else that represented blood, sweat and tears. My writing above wasn't in the hypothetical because I wouldn't do it, it's just that I don't have any IVF kids to talk to about it.

But if I didn't feel that way, and I thought of embryos as babies, then I imagine that I wouldn't do IVF, or wouldn't do IVF in a way that carried a risk of creating embryos that I didn't use. I'd adopt someone else's embryos, or create one at a time (is that I thing, I've never looked into it), or I'd adopt a child (which I did, actually, but not because of my beliefs around abortion).

I thought pro choice simply meant that one was in favor of allowing others to make the choice, not necessarily that one would make that choice themselves.

Anonymous wrote:Why does it matter enough to tell them?

I think this is one of those things that are simple and mundane but can become an enormous monster if you lie. It’s like a kid asking if you’ve had premarital sex — I think it’s fine to say that’s not something you want to talk to them about — BUT if you lie, you’re going to have to maintain the lie. Think about talking to your husband and any other family members who may one day inadvertently spill the beans and out you. Eventually the “lie” becomes much, much bigger than the original truth you were trying to hide.

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Tell them. Especially in these times with reproductive Rights under threat they should know about ivf and other reproductive technologies. God willing they never need it but they should have the option it they do.

Reproductive technologies are the flip side of pregnancy terminations. When one is under threat, both are under threat.

Yup, this. Also point out that having the freedom to destroy the embryos you didn't need made the process more efficient and financially manageable.

Because imagine a world where you, as the mom, would have been forced to have each and every embryo implanted and carried to term as part of the process. That is what antichoice advocates want. Or should want, unless they are completely hypocritical.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many embryos don’t make it so many don’t survive the freeze and thaw process. So many don’t implant. They are not children.

That’s a reason to view ART with skepticism, not to deny the humanity of these tiny humans.

NP here. Speaking as someone who did 5 rounds of IVF, biology does not intend all embryos to become babies. The process is VERY inefficient and even in young, healthy couples, a high percentage of eggs that fertilize and develop enough to become embryos are genetically abnormal and unable to continue development. The rate is around 50% for women under 30 and goes down after that. And even genetically normal embryos only successfully implant and become continued pregnancies 70% of the time, at the very most. They are not only NOT humans, it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to become humans because they are not genetically complete. That's how human reproduction works, and it's a reality that hits you hard when you do IVF.

If he specifically asked, yes, but I can't imagine volunteering that detail, any more than I would feel compelled to share any detail about conception.

I also tell him that we wanted him very much and we so excited to meet him. I do not tell him that I had multiple miscarriages after IVF, that I feared I'd never be a mother, that I sobbed on the regular and that it was the worst emotional pain I'd ever known.

No kid needs that level of knowledge, or pressure. He knows what's relevant.

He also knows enough to tell you that he was created in a lab, like Captain America, and seems to think that it's pretty damn cool (I agree). Honestly, I think most kids would prefer to know that they were created in a lab vs by their parents having sexual intercourse...

Yes, I would tell if it comes up. It's the truth and although it's weird to think about, anything surrounding your own conception is weird to think about.

Anonymous wrote:So many embryos don’t make it so many don’t survive the freeze and thaw process. So many don’t implant. They are not children.

That’s a reason to view ART with skepticism, not to deny the humanity of these tiny humans.

Yes. Tell them. Especially in these times with reproductive Rights under threat they should know about ivf and other reproductive technologies. God willing they never need it but they should have the option it they do.

Reproductive technologies are the flip side of pregnancy terminations. When one is under threat, both are under threat.

So many embryos don’t make it so many don’t survive the freeze and thaw process. So many don’t implant. They are not children.