Anonymous
04/23/2020 17:22
Subject: If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
Anonymous
04/23/2020 13:51
Subject: If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
Anonymous wrote:I grew up with more money than I have for my family, (see the recent NYT article about the first downwardly mobile generation, its an interesting read). My parents were the first in their families to go to college and lead an upper middle class lifestyle. Despite being a college grad myself, my family of 4 lives on about $65-75k a year. Sometimes I wish I could spend more frivolously on eating out or buying my kids toys or technology. But in my case I am providing them with something I never had despite the money, which is parental presence after school, at dinner, and on weekends. A safe home free of domestic violence, and an absence of alcohol abuse. Despite being lower income, were winning at what matters to me.
Can you link the NYT article?
Anonymous
04/23/2020 13:47
Subject: If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
My parents made and lost a lot of money when I was growing up, and I went from a giant house to a modest one and private school to public. I liked life more in a modest house and public school. Suddenly there was less pressure to keep up with the Joneses and kids in public school are way more chill than private school. Now we are trying for kids and we will be sending them to public and most likely renting rather than buying for at least 5 years, plus sharing one car and doing minimal travel. I wish we could do a little more but honestly that wish is for myself... kids really don’t care.
Anonymous
04/23/2020 13:40
Subject: Re:If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
Anonymous wrote:My childhood best friend grew up rich and then her father went bankrupt and died when she was in college. I know the friend racked up so much credit card debt in college and never paid. She has the worst credit of anyone I know. It is like she never stopped spending except her dad wasn’t there to pay off the credit cards.
She has extremely expensive tastes in everything. This has caused a lot of problems in her relationships. She is divorced twice. I don’t think she means to be this way but she comes off snobby. She is well spoken, polished and pretty and has absolutely no problems attracting men.
First marriage was so full of love. Her husband came from a good family but the husband himself probably barely broke 100k. Granted they were young. She had the good life when his parents were footing the bill for outings and vacations but they couldn’t afford anything on their own. Both of them could not get out of debt. His parents bailed them out several times.
Second husband also came from a good family and he made very good money. Nothing was ever enough. They fought over money constantly. My friend is very giving and she can spend money like no one else I know. I wonder if she would be different if her father never died and they still actually had money.
I, on the other hand, was her poor friend when we were kids. I was the poor smart kid. I married another poor smart kid. HHI of almost $3m. We support both our parents. Our parents were not able to pay for college. We were scholarship kids. DH and I just don’t want that much of material items. We try not to spoil our kids.
+1 as a poor smart kid who married another poor smart kid. We are savers and struggle with "enjoying" spending money, even on things / experiences we've always wanted -- there's a scarcity mindset that we can't quite shake. We have a kid now and are hoping to find the midpoint between struggle and spoiled.
Anonymous
04/23/2020 13:26
Subject: Re:If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
My childhood best friend grew up rich and then her father went bankrupt and died when she was in college. I know the friend racked up so much credit card debt in college and never paid. She has the worst credit of anyone I know. It is like she never stopped spending except her dad wasn’t there to pay off the credit cards.
She has extremely expensive tastes in everything. This has caused a lot of problems in her relationships. She is divorced twice. I don’t think she means to be this way but she comes off snobby. She is well spoken, polished and pretty and has absolutely no problems attracting men.
First marriage was so full of love. Her husband came from a good family but the husband himself probably barely broke 100k. Granted they were young. She had the good life when his parents were footing the bill for outings and vacations but they couldn’t afford anything on their own. Both of them could not get out of debt. His parents bailed them out several times.
Second husband also came from a good family and he made very good money. Nothing was ever enough. They fought over money constantly. My friend is very giving and she can spend money like no one else I know. I wonder if she would be different if her father never died and they still actually had money.
I, on the other hand, was her poor friend when we were kids. I was the poor smart kid. I married another poor smart kid. HHI of almost $3m. We support both our parents. Our parents were not able to pay for college. We were scholarship kids. DH and I just don’t want that much of material items. We try not to spoil our kids.
She has extremely expensive tastes in everything. This has caused a lot of problems in her relationships. She is divorced twice. I don’t think she means to be this way but she comes off snobby. She is well spoken, polished and pretty and has absolutely no problems attracting men.
First marriage was so full of love. Her husband came from a good family but the husband himself probably barely broke 100k. Granted they were young. She had the good life when his parents were footing the bill for outings and vacations but they couldn’t afford anything on their own. Both of them could not get out of debt. His parents bailed them out several times.
Second husband also came from a good family and he made very good money. Nothing was ever enough. They fought over money constantly. My friend is very giving and she can spend money like no one else I know. I wonder if she would be different if her father never died and they still actually had money.
I, on the other hand, was her poor friend when we were kids. I was the poor smart kid. I married another poor smart kid. HHI of almost $3m. We support both our parents. Our parents were not able to pay for college. We were scholarship kids. DH and I just don’t want that much of material items. We try not to spoil our kids.
Anonymous
04/23/2020 13:10
Subject: If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
Anonymous wrote:I don’t worry about private school and horseback riding.
I worry about the future my kids are inheriting and whether I’d be able to help them with things like:avoiding student loan debt, down payment on a house, wedding, sustaining them through periods of unemployment, health crisis or other struggle in a world where everything costs twice as much and salaries are stagnant.
As a millennial these things were already harder than my parents’ generation, who could do things like pay for law school on their summer associate salary alone and graduate debt free. We didn’t take fancy European vacations growing up but I depended on their generosity a lot more than I like to admit as an emerging adult. I worry I won’t be able to do that for my kids.
+ 1000
I admitted to my spouse I feel guilty bringing the kids into their world with our downward mobility and debt. We won't have the resources to support them at all past a certain age and they won't have the opportunities we had.
Anonymous
04/23/2020 13:07
Subject: If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
Anonymous wrote:This thread just makes my worst insecurities real...
signed: MMC who grew up as LMC but had some UC friends...
-
Your kids will be fine. I assure you my child doesn’t know that she lives “without” in our under $300k lifestyle.
The issue is more your insecurities and how it will project to your kids.
If your entire social circle are getting on their private jets to whisk away for the long weekend, you will not be thrilled with your exciting Ocean City week rental in June.
If you hang out with us MMC “poors” who are dual PhD families in the one step out burbs, you will be fine
Can I be your friend? I am a MMC "poor" PhD married to a PhD in a one step out burb! I don't fit since I have a lot of Republican/anti vax neighbors!
Anonymous
04/23/2020 13:01
Subject: Re:If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
I find this post somewhat insulting, though I know you didn’t mean it to be. You believe that rich people’s childhoods are better than MC or even LC childhoods? I grew up what DCUM would consider LM though it was really MC. We are now 1% and worry about giving our child too much. My husband and I had great childhoods and (used to, unfortunately it wears off a bit as you get spoiled) appreciate things that rich kids took for granted. Christmas was special because we didn’t get toys year round, pizza night was special because we ate at home a lot, vacations were special because they were limited, my husband and I appreciated Europe as adults because we hadn’t been going since we were 2....We can afford all that you listed but choose not to because that aren’t our family values. Though, I will admit we do vacations (one very nice trip a year e.g Costa Rica, Grand Canyon, California, etc) and a summer house in a fancy location. But public schools and inexpensive hobbies. We worry my daughter won’t appreciate the little things in life or the struggles of others. You should learn from the pandemic that the little things that bring you joy are the best.
Anonymous
04/23/2020 12:54
Subject: If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
I grew up with more money than I have for my family, (see the recent NYT article about the first downwardly mobile generation, its an interesting read). My parents were the first in their families to go to college and lead an upper middle class lifestyle. Despite being a college grad myself, my family of 4 lives on about $65-75k a year. Sometimes I wish I could spend more frivolously on eating out or buying my kids toys or technology. But in my case I am providing them with something I never had despite the money, which is parental presence after school, at dinner, and on weekends. A safe home free of domestic violence, and an absence of alcohol abuse. Despite being lower income, were winning at what matters to me.
Anonymous
04/23/2020 12:50
Subject: If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
Eh. It would be okay if we lived somewhere else, but unfortunately for DD, we live in one of the richest cities in the country, so all of DD's friends are constantly going to Hawaii each year, and then taking international trips. They have birthday parties in fancy hotels.
I can't afford things like that. I've taken DD on two trips, both were very nice, and although she appreciated them, she also ... is sad she hasn't been to Japan, you know?
She complained once that she only had two pairs of sneakers, because all her friends seemed to have five or six (I think she was exaggerating). DD gets everything she needs and some things she wants, from me. I'm fine with that.
I can't afford things like that. I've taken DD on two trips, both were very nice, and although she appreciated them, she also ... is sad she hasn't been to Japan, you know?
She complained once that she only had two pairs of sneakers, because all her friends seemed to have five or six (I think she was exaggerating). DD gets everything she needs and some things she wants, from me. I'm fine with that.
Anonymous
04/23/2020 12:49
Subject: If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
I don’t worry about private school and horseback riding.
I worry about the future my kids are inheriting and whether I’d be able to help them with things like:avoiding student loan debt, down payment on a house, wedding, sustaining them through periods of unemployment, health crisis or other struggle in a world where everything costs twice as much and salaries are stagnant.
As a millennial these things were already harder than my parents’ generation, who could do things like pay for law school on their summer associate salary alone and graduate debt free. We didn’t take fancy European vacations growing up but I depended on their generosity a lot more than I like to admit as an emerging adult. I worry I won’t be able to do that for my kids.
I worry about the future my kids are inheriting and whether I’d be able to help them with things like:avoiding student loan debt, down payment on a house, wedding, sustaining them through periods of unemployment, health crisis or other struggle in a world where everything costs twice as much and salaries are stagnant.
As a millennial these things were already harder than my parents’ generation, who could do things like pay for law school on their summer associate salary alone and graduate debt free. We didn’t take fancy European vacations growing up but I depended on their generosity a lot more than I like to admit as an emerging adult. I worry I won’t be able to do that for my kids.
Anonymous
04/23/2020 12:45
Subject: If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
Anonymous wrote:I have concerns about this for my own children. We have a really nice lifestyle with all of the extras you mention but it's because my husband kind of randomly fell into a high paying career with flexible hours (fintech). So we have the best of both worlds: a lot of money and a really nice work life balance.
He can easily work remotely with no issues, gets six weeks off a year which is use it or lose it (so everyone is encouraged to use it), minimal travel, and typically only works ~ 50 hours a week so we can have family dinner every night, etc.
Very few people live in the city where the company is HQ'd, including us. Since we had the ability to live anywhere without jobs tethering us to a specific area, we chose to move to the MCOL city where DH grew up so we could raise our kids near extended family. So the money goes even further than it would had we stayed in our HCOL city.
I look at the world and I realize how lucky we are and how unusual of a position we are in. I don't know how our children are going to replicate this as adults. They are growing up in a home where money is simply not a concern. I worry about that for them.
Sorry but this is.... a) not what the OP asked about and b) one of the more obnoxious posts I've read here in a while, and that says something. Just focus on raising your kids to be good people who understand their privilege in the context of the broader world.
Anonymous
04/23/2020 12:42
Subject: If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
This thread just makes my worst insecurities real...
signed: MMC who grew up as LMC but had some UC friends...
-
Your kids will be fine. I assure you my child doesn’t know that she lives “without” in our under $300k lifestyle.
The issue is more your insecurities and how it will project to your kids.
If your entire social circle are getting on their private jets to whisk away for the long weekend, you will not be thrilled with your exciting Ocean City week rental in June.
If you hang out with us MMC “poors” who are dual PhD families in the one step out burbs, you will be fine
signed: MMC who grew up as LMC but had some UC friends...
-
Your kids will be fine. I assure you my child doesn’t know that she lives “without” in our under $300k lifestyle.
The issue is more your insecurities and how it will project to your kids.
If your entire social circle are getting on their private jets to whisk away for the long weekend, you will not be thrilled with your exciting Ocean City week rental in June.
If you hang out with us MMC “poors” who are dual PhD families in the one step out burbs, you will be fine
Anonymous
04/23/2020 12:31
Subject: Re:If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My best friend and I grew up together UC (we also rode horses, and I still do with my daughters). She is a teacher and her husband also works in academia and she just acknowledged that her kids' lives would be different then hers. No horses for sure, less travel, no private school, etc. But she's just as happy as I am now. I think it's because while those things are nice, we both realize that they're not necessary for happiness. Yes, I loved my private school, and I'm glad that I can send my kids to one that's similar, but if I couldn't, I'd know that they would still get a great education. Same with riding - I'm so happy to be able to share it with my daughters, but we could also put our time and energy into swimming, or lacrosse, or some other sport that they would enjoy. If I were you, I would focus on whether or not you want kids, and then figure out how you can give them the things that really matter for a happy childhood. I promise, it's not horses and fancy vacations and private school.
I promise you, your friend is not happy about missing those things and seeing you giving them to your kids while she can't. Of course, she wouldn't say that, but you should be very careful and sensitive to it. You sound a little tone deaf. It's very easy to say you would be happy without certain things when you don't ever have to go without them. Oh, and lacrosse? You wouldn't know this, but to pay for lessons, teams, travel--you have to be UMC, at least.
+1 This post is insane. "I grew up very rich and am still very rich; let me explain how perfectly I would react to not being rich so that poors can learn from me!"
Anonymous
04/23/2020 12:28
Subject: Re:If you grew up UC or UMC and don't make enough money to live that way as an adult
Anonymous wrote:My best friend and I grew up together UC (we also rode horses, and I still do with my daughters). She is a teacher and her husband also works in academia and she just acknowledged that her kids' lives would be different then hers. No horses for sure, less travel, no private school, etc. But she's just as happy as I am now. I think it's because while those things are nice, we both realize that they're not necessary for happiness. Yes, I loved my private school, and I'm glad that I can send my kids to one that's similar, but if I couldn't, I'd know that they would still get a great education. Same with riding - I'm so happy to be able to share it with my daughters, but we could also put our time and energy into swimming, or lacrosse, or some other sport that they would enjoy. If I were you, I would focus on whether or not you want kids, and then figure out how you can give them the things that really matter for a happy childhood. I promise, it's not horses and fancy vacations and private school.
I promise you, your friend is not happy about missing those things and seeing you giving them to your kids while she can't. Of course, she wouldn't say that, but you should be very careful and sensitive to it. You sound a little tone deaf. It's very easy to say you would be happy without certain things when you don't ever have to go without them. Oh, and lacrosse? You wouldn't know this, but to pay for lessons, teams, travel--you have to be UMC, at least.