Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the disorder is narcissism, you don't. You let go and go no contact. They aren't capable of healthy relationships. Best to end it ASAP. Save yourself.

I am NP but have asked many times for someone to help me figure out if my DH is a narcissist or just has many narcissistic tendencies like his (suspected) narcissist mother. Is there some trick for knowing if it's innate or just learned behavior?

Narcissists have the disorder because of childhood trauma so if a child has a narcissist parent I suppose it would seem as if it is learned behavior when really the child is traumatized because of the parent's behavior. There's nothing innate about narcissism. It is born from an unhealthy life experience.

I think I fell out of love. She is bipolar 2 I think and has spent me into the ground. It's almost impossible to figure out how to untangle from this and I feel like I am dying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you manage to keep you relationship together?

We didn't. Lived in purgatory for 7 years for sake of kids until the disorder triggered behavior that basically was the proverbial last straw. Separated and divorce should be final in a few days.

In hindsight, should have split years ago. Thought I was doing kids a favor protecting them but in reality, their relationship with her and the behavior patterns they normalized were very damaging. A year of therapy has helped, but I think they are forever damaged. Only upside is they are both teens now so choose to live with me and limit contact with her.

Which disorder or what was the underlying issue or disorder?

Borderline with Bipolar 2 tendencies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the disorder is narcissism, you don't. You let go and go no contact. They aren't capable of healthy relationships. Best to end it ASAP. Save yourself.

I am NP but have asked many times for someone to help me figure out if my DH is a narcissist or just has many narcissistic tendencies like his (suspected) narcissist mother. Is there some trick for knowing if it's innate or just learned behavior?

Same boat aspie husband whose condition presents as very self-centered and narcisissitic.

He's been Dx. He hurts people's feelings all the time and cannot be relied on for anything. He only has the limited wherewithal to do his daily routine for himself - he eats every meal before his kids/family, he doesn't help anyone, he doesn't see things that need to be done, he gets angry when asked something, he gets super angry when asked about something he was supposed to have done. He won't see the door open or unlocked or the house on fire if he is doing his routine - coffee, bathroom time, iphone news. If any kid needs something from 6-8am too bad. he'll maybe leave them a banana like you'd fill the dog bowl. But no interaction. He can sit at family dinners and not say a single word or even look at someone (esp since he already ate his fill at the kitchen stove like a madman). He never greets you or asks how you are doing.

This article had a good example of the different communication and feelings acknowledgement a narc versus an aspie is capable of.

http://www.drpsychmom.com/2015/08/28/aspergers-when-narcissism-just-doesnt-explain-your-partners-inability-to-empathize/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the disorder is narcissism, you don't. You let go and go no contact. They aren't capable of healthy relationships. Best to end it ASAP. Save yourself.

I am NP but have asked many times for someone to help me figure out if my DH is a narcissist or just has many narcissistic tendencies like his (suspected) narcissist mother. Is there some trick for knowing if it's innate or just learned behavior?

I don’t even think the experts have conclusively determined if it’s nature (genes) Vs nurture (environment).

Identical Twins raised separately both display tendencies in studies on this. This scares that crap out of me for my kids.

My spouse just got a diagnosis that he’s not a “clinical” narcissist, but scores high on the narcissist scale.

Unfortunately, there is no cure and it’s hard to treat. He was diagnosed with underlying depression too (manifest for him in explosive anger).

It didn’t become clear until his 40s. He had a very messed up childhood and it was generational on both sides of his family.

I pray to god my sons genes have more of my side of the family (healthy) in this aspect.

Anonymous wrote:If the disorder is narcissism, you don't. You let go and go no contact. They aren't capable of healthy relationships. Best to end it ASAP. Save yourself.

I am NP but have asked many times for someone to help me figure out if my DH is a narcissist or just has many narcissistic tendencies like his (suspected) narcissist mother. Is there some trick for knowing if it's innate or just learned behavior?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you manage to keep you relationship together?

We didn't. Lived in purgatory for 7 years for sake of kids until the disorder triggered behavior that basically was the proverbial last straw. Separated and divorce should be final in a few days.

In hindsight, should have split years ago. Thought I was doing kids a favor protecting them but in reality, their relationship with her and the behavior patterns they normalized were very damaging. A year of therapy has helped, but I think they are forever damaged. Only upside is they are both teens now so choose to live with me and limit contact with her.

Which disorder or what was the underlying issue or disorder?

Anonymous wrote:
How do you define love in that context?

I feel a kinship bond and duty of care for this person. Do I love them in the "movie" term of the word, after all their nastiness, during episodes of which I never know the parts of assholery and disease? No.

If I could magic my way out of the relationship, I would. But that's not happening, so I'm making the best of it.

So far I’d done this, stayed in to doing everyone. But now I fear he is clashing with the kids. He doesn’t respond to them when they try to talk to them, he goes from ignoring them to things out of hand and he *snaps out of it* and yells and yells. He drives them both up a wall and then are younger than age 9.

Anonymous wrote:How do you manage to keep you relationship together?

We didn't. Lived in purgatory for 7 years for sake of kids until the disorder triggered behavior that basically was the proverbial last straw. Separated and divorce should be final in a few days.

In hindsight, should have split years ago. Thought I was doing kids a favor protecting them but in reality, their relationship with her and the behavior patterns they normalized were very damaging. A year of therapy has helped, but I think they are forever damaged. Only upside is they are both teens now so choose to live with me and limit contact with her.

If the disorder is narcissism, you don't. You let go and go no contact. They aren't capable of healthy relationships. Best to end it ASAP. Save yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you manage to keep you relationship together?

Just to clarify, things like ADD or aspergers are not personality disorders. The latter is a structural brain issue where connections, messages, observations, processing are not made/ go not always go through in the brain.

PP above you. I included ADHD and Asperger's just because those are the only diagnoses my husband has, and he is already proving irrational and abusive with those two. He also has some sort of defiant, oppositional streak which makes everything worse (he goes out of his way to sabotage certain important events), but it hasn't been diagnosed - maybe that's the personality disorder, but it's not official.

The bottom line is that there are plenty of personality disorders that patients refuse to seek help for, or which have not yet been crystallized into a diagnosis, and they all need to be managed just as seriously as if they were official.

Same here. It’s exhausting and unfruitful. Aspergers at this age is quite untreatable. ADD at least has some meds.

ASD all one can do once at the regular adult temper tantrums stage is treat the side “anxiety” (anger explosions).

What I hate most is the inability to have a back and forth conversation at dinner, with the kids, with me. He just sits there, literally saying nothing and thinking nothing, not even reacting to what is going on in the house. His parents are the same way . I’ve given up leading all the conversations and questions; it’s too exhausting for more than a day or two.

But ASD is not a personality disorder, it is a neuro disability, that presents as personality disorders such as narcissism. The lack of executive functioning skills, poor verbal communication, and bipolar-ness (can only be 100% non emotional or angry - only two emotions are demonstrated) are never ending as well.

He may think he’s one thing but his behaviors demonstrates he is something else. The behaviors are what matter, not what someone neuroAtypical thinks about himself.

Oh my gosh, this is my husband completely. I saw it only here and there early on, but it has gotten worse and worse over the years. I believe his mother has narcissistic personality disorder, so I assumed this was some result of that, but sometimes I wonder if it ASD. My teenage son recently revealed that he sometimes thinks he may be on the spectrum (he has a close friend who has been diagnosed with ASD and he sees similarities--I had him evaluated in elementary school and it was ruled out). He worries he will end up like his father. About once a week I decide I cannot take it anymore and plan to call a lawyer the next day, then he starts engaging again and will go 5 or 6 days without the horribly mean comments. It's an exhausting cycle. We have been married for over 20 years. If I knew then what I know now, I don't think I would have married him--but I can't imagine life without my wonderful kids, so I can't say I regret it.

Get your son help. Behavioral therapy and Executive functioning coach (if needed). The former will help him learn or mirror empathy and conversational skills at least. Being aware is a big step.

Yep, he has had both and still lots of executive functioning support. He hasn't had behavioral in a few years, but now that he has expressed his concern that he doesn't always feel empathy--plus he has anxiety--we're working on finding the right CBT. Here's my concern. It only became clear to me about five years into my marriage, that my husband had been counseled how to mirror empathy and conversational skills. Now I see that in the long run, what really matters is the complete lack of ability to actually feel it. My husband has zero empathy--and his mother lacks it, too. I feel badly that my son may wind up the same way. It doesn't appear that counseling ever compensates for that. All it really does is cover up the problem. I don't want him to hide it just long enough to have a wife and kids, then decide he's too tired of faking it, which is what my husband did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you manage to keep you relationship together?

Just to clarify, things like ADD or aspergers are not personality disorders. The latter is a structural brain issue where connections, messages, observations, processing are not made/ go not always go through in the brain.

PP above you. I included ADHD and Asperger's just because those are the only diagnoses my husband has, and he is already proving irrational and abusive with those two. He also has some sort of defiant, oppositional streak which makes everything worse (he goes out of his way to sabotage certain important events), but it hasn't been diagnosed - maybe that's the personality disorder, but it's not official.

The bottom line is that there are plenty of personality disorders that patients refuse to seek help for, or which have not yet been crystallized into a diagnosis, and they all need to be managed just as seriously as if they were official.

Same here. It’s exhausting and unfruitful. Aspergers at this age is quite untreatable. ADD at least has some meds.

ASD all one can do once at the regular adult temper tantrums stage is treat the side “anxiety” (anger explosions).

What I hate most is the inability to have a back and forth conversation at dinner, with the kids, with me. He just sits there, literally saying nothing and thinking nothing, not even reacting to what is going on in the house. His parents are the same way . I’ve given up leading all the conversations and questions; it’s too exhausting for more than a day or two.

But ASD is not a personality disorder, it is a neuro disability, that presents as personality disorders such as narcissism. The lack of executive functioning skills, poor verbal communication, and bipolar-ness (can only be 100% non emotional or angry - only two emotions are demonstrated) are never ending as well.

He may think he’s one thing but his behaviors demonstrates he is something else. The behaviors are what matter, not what someone neuroAtypical thinks about himself.

Oh my gosh, this is my husband completely. I saw it only here and there early on, but it has gotten worse and worse over the years. I believe his mother has narcissistic personality disorder, so I assumed this was some result of that, but sometimes I wonder if it ASD. My teenage son recently revealed that he sometimes thinks he may be on the spectrum (he has a close friend who has been diagnosed with ASD and he sees similarities--I had him evaluated in elementary school and it was ruled out). He worries he will end up like his father. About once a week I decide I cannot take it anymore and plan to call a lawyer the next day, then he starts engaging again and will go 5 or 6 days without the horribly mean comments. It's an exhausting cycle. We have been married for over 20 years. If I knew then what I know now, I don't think I would have married him--but I can't imagine life without my wonderful kids, so I can't say I regret it.

Get your son help. Behavioral therapy and Executive functioning coach (if needed). The former will help him learn or mirror empathy and conversational skills at least. Being aware is a big step.

You have to spend an entire week or two with someone cat 1 ASD to see it. They can fake it through some group dinners, parties, etc. And you might not pick up that they aren’t proactive, aren’t bringing up discussion topics, are only droning in about their same special interest or two.

But spend a road trip, or vacation, or have them houseguest and you’ll realize how much dropping the ball, totally silent dinners, they don’t respond to questions, they leave stuff on/open, chronically forget what to do or what was agreed upon, etc.

And worst of all, with kids: they can’t see risks! They can’t anticipate the kid grabbing the knife they leave out, or the windy door, or the danger of a rip tide.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you manage to keep you relationship together?

Just to clarify, things like ADD or aspergers are not personality disorders. The latter is a structural brain issue where connections, messages, observations, processing are not made/ go not always go through in the brain.

PP above you. I included ADHD and Asperger's just because those are the only diagnoses my husband has, and he is already proving irrational and abusive with those two. He also has some sort of defiant, oppositional streak which makes everything worse (he goes out of his way to sabotage certain important events), but it hasn't been diagnosed - maybe that's the personality disorder, but it's not official.

The bottom line is that there are plenty of personality disorders that patients refuse to seek help for, or which have not yet been crystallized into a diagnosis, and they all need to be managed just as seriously as if they were official.

Same here. It’s exhausting and unfruitful. Aspergers at this age is quite untreatable. ADD at least has some meds.

ASD all one can do once at the regular adult temper tantrums stage is treat the side “anxiety” (anger explosions).

What I hate most is the inability to have a back and forth conversation at dinner, with the kids, with me. He just sits there, literally saying nothing and thinking nothing, not even reacting to what is going on in the house. His parents are the same way . I’ve given up leading all the conversations and questions; it’s too exhausting for more than a day or two.

But ASD is not a personality disorder, it is a neuro disability, that presents as personality disorders such as narcissism. The lack of executive functioning skills, poor verbal communication, and bipolar-ness (can only be 100% non emotional or angry - only two emotions are demonstrated) are never ending as well.

He may think he’s one thing but his behaviors demonstrates he is something else. The behaviors are what matter, not what someone neuroAtypical thinks about himself.

Oh my gosh, this is my husband completely. I saw it only here and there early on, but it has gotten worse and worse over the years. I believe his mother has narcissistic personality disorder, so I assumed this was some result of that, but sometimes I wonder if it ASD. My teenage son recently revealed that he sometimes thinks he may be on the spectrum (he has a close friend who has been diagnosed with ASD and he sees similarities--I had him evaluated in elementary school and it was ruled out). He worries he will end up like his father. About once a week I decide I cannot take it anymore and plan to call a lawyer the next day, then he starts engaging again and will go 5 or 6 days without the horribly mean comments. It's an exhausting cycle. We have been married for over 20 years. If I knew then what I know now, I don't think I would have married him--but I can't imagine life without my wonderful kids, so I can't say I regret it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you manage to keep you relationship together?

Just to clarify, things like ADD or aspergers are not personality disorders. The latter is a structural brain issue where connections, messages, observations, processing are not made/ go not always go through in the brain.

PP above you. I included ADHD and Asperger's just because those are the only diagnoses my husband has, and he is already proving irrational and abusive with those two. He also has some sort of defiant, oppositional streak which makes everything worse (he goes out of his way to sabotage certain important events), but it hasn't been diagnosed - maybe that's the personality disorder, but it's not official.

The bottom line is that there are plenty of personality disorders that patients refuse to seek help for, or which have not yet been crystallized into a diagnosis, and they all need to be managed just as seriously as if they were official.

The first few years I thought he was passive aggressive. I chalked it up to men don’t talk much and married him.

The next few years, with kids and a house now, we both thought it was ADHD Inattentive. He couldn’t keep track of anything, couldn’t learn, poor time management, zero planning skills. Basically started each day asking me or his work email: what should I do today. (But then not so it or do it wrong)

Got tested. It was autism. No ADHD on the neuropsychology. He had every Aspergers symptom plus comorbidities like bipolar, anger issues, depression. He’s back to claiming he has no issues and is great, and wants everyone else around him tested.

Thing is, living in the twilight zone with an aspie could probably drive you crazy yourself!! Keep it real and have more touchpoints with neurotypical friends, coworkers, school parents, neighborhoods, clubs, etc.!