Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 09:43     Subject: Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Would you abandon your child if they had the same problem? Family is family. You do what you can, but protect yourself and others from abuse and violence.


Agreed.

I would only divorce for abuse or active addiction. Maybe adultery, but even that is something from which you can recover.


Why though if my staying with someone isn’t helping anyone and is hurting me? Let’s say I have a severely depressed spouse. Every weekend is miserable, his misery sucks any happiness out of our home, and it’s been going on for years and he’s either unable or unwilling to tackle it. He’s miserable whether I’m there or not. Why should someone stay in that situation sacrificing any joy or happiness in their home life? Who is that serving?
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 09:03     Subject: Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?
Anonymous wrote:Would you abandon your child if they had the same problem? Family is family. You do what you can, but protect yourself and others from abuse and violence.


Agreed.

I would only divorce for abuse or active addiction. Maybe adultery, but even that is something from which you can recover.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 08:20     Subject: Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?
Would you abandon your child if they had the same problem? Family is family. You do what you can, but protect yourself and others from abuse and violence.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 08:09     Subject: Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?
Anonymous wrote:What’s your opinion? If your spouse is struggling (mental / physical / behavioral health issue) do you view trying to stand by / support them now matter the cost to your well-being part of your vows? Or do you walk away because your well being trumps vows?

I’m not currently in this situation - just wondering what people think


"'Til death do us part."
"As long as you both shall live."

Sounds pretty straightforward to me. Questions like OP's are exactly why marriage has become increasingly disposable, and why it is essentially a failed instrument of social control. Once you're married, you no longer exist, and so your needs/desires/well-being no longer matter, except insofar as they are required to sustain the marriage.

Don't make promises you can't keep. And for the vast majority of people, that means DON'T MAKE PROMISES. There are no offramps or loopholes in marriage vows. They are overly broad by design. And in the end, it's about entering into a contract based on wildly incomplete information and bound together by intangbiles. Yes, good luck with that.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 08:02     Subject: Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?

My father stayed with my mother when she was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis and became not only handicapped but also often very challenging to deal with due to guilt-tripping and emotional and verbal abuse. Let's say she did NOT deal well with her disease.

If the love is still there despite everything
If the afflicted spouse is trying
If no one is in physical danger except perhaps the patient themselves
And if finances makes sense

... it's better to stay together.

Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 07:58     Subject: Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?
Anonymous wrote:IMO left means life. One of you must die for the marriage to end. I do not believe in divorce. It shouldn’t exist.


This is the kind of thinking that leads to murder and abuse.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 07:51     Subject: Re:Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If my husband was doing his best to correct whatever the situation was, I would stay. If he was in denial, or refusing to do some thing to make the situation better, I would probably leave.

We went through a very rough patch where my husband was out of work for almost 4 years. The reason I didn’t leave is because he worked every single day at getting a job. He wasn’t sitting around watching TV, he was on the phone and doing his best. It was a long, hard road but I really respected how hard he tried. He’s been gainfully employed for several years now.


This.
If he wasn't able to walk anymore and ended up wheelchair bound, then I would stay with him. I would help him get to doctor's appointments, make the house wheelchair accessible, install railings and chair lifts and all if it. However, if he wasn't able to walk anymore, and was dragging himself around on the floor denying that anything was wrong, then I would go.

I know that the above sounds silly, but there is a mental health equivalent to this that is less obvious to outsiders, but just as ridiculous to the people living through it.



You have zero understanding of mental illness. It is not at all like your example. Mental illness impacts on cognitive functioning, thought content and process, perceptions, insight, judgment, decision making, motivation and many other mind based functions.


So what makes it not like my example?
Those all sound like things you need to function in daily life.


How many people who can't walk anymore stay in denial just life in the floor denying anything is wrong: zero.
How many people with mental illness struggle to engage fully in treatment (particularly when treatment often doesn't not show results) due to the nature of their condition? The majority

Lying on the floor while paralyzed pretending nothing is wrong has no parallel to struggling to get out of bed when dealing with a catatonic depression or an inability to identity signs of psychosis in oneself. Mental illness actually has a word for when an inability to understand you are unwell is part of the illness.

When we talk about anosognosia in mental illness, we mean that someone is unaware of their own mental health condition or that they can't perceive their condition accurately. Anosognosia is a common symptom of certain mental illnesses, perhaps the most difficult to understand for those who have never experienced it.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 07:45     Subject: Re:Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If my husband was doing his best to correct whatever the situation was, I would stay. If he was in denial, or refusing to do some thing to make the situation better, I would probably leave.

We went through a very rough patch where my husband was out of work for almost 4 years. The reason I didn’t leave is because he worked every single day at getting a job. He wasn’t sitting around watching TV, he was on the phone and doing his best. It was a long, hard road but I really respected how hard he tried. He’s been gainfully employed for several years now.


This.
If he wasn't able to walk anymore and ended up wheelchair bound, then I would stay with him. I would help him get to doctor's appointments, make the house wheelchair accessible, install railings and chair lifts and all if it. However, if he wasn't able to walk anymore, and was dragging himself around on the floor denying that anything was wrong, then I would go.

I know that the above sounds silly, but there is a mental health equivalent to this that is less obvious to outsiders, but just as ridiculous to the people living through it.



You have zero understanding of mental illness. It is not at all like your example. Mental illness impacts on cognitive functioning, thought content and process, perceptions, insight, judgment, decision making, motivation and many other mind based functions.


So what makes it not like my example?
Those all sound like things you need to function in daily life.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 06:14     Subject: Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?
Anonymous wrote:IMO left means life. One of you must die for the marriage to end. I do not believe in divorce. It shouldn’t exist.


But even the Catholic Church allows for permanently living apart (separation) and civil divorce when there’s a terrible situation and annulment is not canonically possible. My mom is an extremely devout Catholic and through prayer and many discussions with her parish priest came to the realization that not civilly divorcing my dad was the path to sin because their living and legal situation was causing her to hate him.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 06:08     Subject: Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?
Anonymous wrote: My mom is standing by my dad, whose Parkinsons is gaining speed. However, my dad has been hardworking, no drink/drugs/abuse and faithful and this isn't his fault.


This is a no-brained. I would stand by my DH with any illness, and even with mental illness or addiction that’s untreated due to refusal, it would take me a long time to throw in the towel. If he accepted help and was trying f, I would stay.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 06:01     Subject: Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Someone unwilling to get get help who is negatively impacting the mental health of the household is not worth saving the relationship. I would not allow my spouse to affect the well-being of myself or my children.


That's a low bar. So many things can impact the well-being of yourself or your children. Going through difficult times and learning to deal with negative events and emotions is part of life and necessary to build resilience and actually have well-being. To run any time there is something difficult because it will affect the well-being of your children doesn't make sense. That act of leaving would affect their well-being.

In my extended family, there have been spouses with autoimmune disorders, spouses in accidents, spouses with cancer, spouses with depression, spouses with neurological conditions, and spouses with life altering injuries. All of these have definitely impacted the mental health and well-being of everyone in each family. it has also taught them things, brought them together and made them stronger. To think you would just bail and deprive your child of a parent and a stable home because they are impacted is so unhealthy. At some point your kids are going to have to learn how to cope with adversity and also then to deal with the abandonment of a parent.


This is just in your family alone? That’s very tragic, I’m sorry.

I think if a spouse is abusive or refusing to seek help to the detriment of the family, you separate.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 05:47     Subject: Re:Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If my husband was doing his best to correct whatever the situation was, I would stay. If he was in denial, or refusing to do some thing to make the situation better, I would probably leave.

We went through a very rough patch where my husband was out of work for almost 4 years. The reason I didn’t leave is because he worked every single day at getting a job. He wasn’t sitting around watching TV, he was on the phone and doing his best. It was a long, hard road but I really respected how hard he tried. He’s been gainfully employed for several years now.


This.
If he wasn't able to walk anymore and ended up wheelchair bound, then I would stay with him. I would help him get to doctor's appointments, make the house wheelchair accessible, install railings and chair lifts and all if it. However, if he wasn't able to walk anymore, and was dragging himself around on the floor denying that anything was wrong, then I would go.

I know that the above sounds silly, but there is a mental health equivalent to this that is less obvious to outsiders, but just as ridiculous to the people living through it.


You have zero understanding of mental illness. It is not at all like your example. Mental illness impacts on cognitive functioning, thought content and process, perceptions, insight, judgment, decision making, motivation and many other mind based functions.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 05:41     Subject: Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?
IMO left means life. One of you must die for the marriage to end. I do not believe in divorce. It shouldn’t exist.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 05:38     Subject: Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?
My mom is standing by my dad, whose Parkinsons is gaining speed. However, my dad has been hardworking, no drink/drugs/abuse and faithful and this isn't his fault.
Anonymous
Post 02/04/2020 23:34     Subject: Re:Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?
Anonymous wrote:If my husband was doing his best to correct whatever the situation was, I would stay. If he was in denial, or refusing to do some thing to make the situation better, I would probably leave.

We went through a very rough patch where my husband was out of work for almost 4 years. The reason I didn’t leave is because he worked every single day at getting a job. He wasn’t sitting around watching TV, he was on the phone and doing his best. It was a long, hard road but I really respected how hard he tried. He’s been gainfully employed for several years now.


This.
If he wasn't able to walk anymore and ended up wheelchair bound, then I would stay with him. I would help him get to doctor's appointments, make the house wheelchair accessible, install railings and chair lifts and all if it. However, if he wasn't able to walk anymore, and was dragging himself around on the floor denying that anything was wrong, then I would go.

I know that the above sounds silly, but there is a mental health equivalent to this that is less obvious to outsiders, but just as ridiculous to the people living through it.