Anonymous
Post 02/06/2020 07:24     Subject: Re:What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
At Catholic masses women should be given the opportunity to say the homily.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 22:30     Subject: What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
Lutheran here. We had the common cup AND the shot glasses. No way would I ever do the common cup! We also had a load of legit bread and we would tear a piece off the loaf. When I was a kid, I’d always look forward to the snack at communion.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 22:16     Subject: What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Lots of churches allow you to dip the wager into the wine instead of drinking directly from the cup. Also, alcohol sterilizes.


And that's better because?..

1. You do realize that any person who has any unstable hand due to age, be it old or young or have vision issues
can deep more then just the wafer but half of their fingers? In theory..

2. Okay, I get it, alcohol sterilizes. But what about actual science? Would you drink from that cup knowing
that half of the congregation has HIV because alcohol sterilizes and you would have FULL confidence that
it did it for you? Do you believe there is NO person with HIV or other grave disease at the time sharing?

3. Also, what exactly is the power of sterilization of the wine? What is the power of wine diluted with water
because - correct me if I am wrong - they wine has certain amount of water added to it during some if not most services?
I am afraid that even the purest of alcohols available.. of highest proof would not sterilize anything sufficiently
to trust it. But you are telling me that diluted wine makes it totally safe? In addition, I was observing the
service when people were drinking form the same cup, and then a person who administered, wiped the edge
clean after every person.. here comes the punch: with the same cloth!!!
So you tell me, was he actually cleaning the edge or decontaminating it with all the collected germs that
he wiped so far?

I am not an expert and I do respect all traditions but in this case it would be most beneficial to see some change
or at least run some extensive tests to make sure the people are safe.

This is a random scientific paper that researched medical tools sterilization and even this came with conclusion
that doing so with pure alcohol did not provide complete but partial sterilization. Again, I don't know if
we can find papers on sterilizing with wine. Would be interested. Are there any reliable materials
that could reassure and support your notion that this is safe? Think about all the winter seasonal
health issues. Think about the fact that many people go to the church in very difficult situations
to pray for themselves when they are sick, or their loved ones, many elderly people comes too
and then, how can one be sure that they don't actually pass and exchange more of this then
one would hope they don't?

The methods and process is different but the end result is concerning.
https://www.ajicjournal.org/article/S0196-6553(17)30632-6/abstract

I would love someone to provide some supporting data that this is actually safe.


Just don't take communion if you have a problem with it. Generally there is an option of getting a blessing in lieu of communion.


PP isn’t Christian so taking/not taking communion isn’t her concern here.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 22:11     Subject: What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
Here, pp: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-jan-01-me-beliefs1-story.html

A NJ microbiologist who conducted one if the few studies says the risk is no higher than standing on line at the movies.

The CDC says “the risk is so small it’s probably undetectable.”

Then there’s 2,000 years of people taking communion with no identified epidemics resulting.

But if it makes you feel better, Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists and many evangelical congregations, pass out individual or disposable mini-cups.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 21:39     Subject: What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Lots of churches allow you to dip the wager into the wine instead of drinking directly from the cup. Also, alcohol sterilizes.


And that's better because?..

1. You do realize that any person who has any unstable hand due to age, be it old or young or have vision issues
can deep more then just the wafer but half of their fingers? In theory..

2. Okay, I get it, alcohol sterilizes. But what about actual science? Would you drink from that cup knowing
that half of the congregation has HIV because alcohol sterilizes and you would have FULL confidence that
it did it for you? Do you believe there is NO person with HIV or other grave disease at the time sharing?

3. Also, what exactly is the power of sterilization of the wine? What is the power of wine diluted with water
because - correct me if I am wrong - they wine has certain amount of water added to it during some if not most services?
I am afraid that even the purest of alcohols available.. of highest proof would not sterilize anything sufficiently
to trust it. But you are telling me that diluted wine makes it totally safe? In addition, I was observing the
service when people were drinking form the same cup, and then a person who administered, wiped the edge
clean after every person.. here comes the punch: with the same cloth!!!
So you tell me, was he actually cleaning the edge or decontaminating it with all the collected germs that
he wiped so far?

I am not an expert and I do respect all traditions but in this case it would be most beneficial to see some change
or at least run some extensive tests to make sure the people are safe.

This is a random scientific paper that researched medical tools sterilization and even this came with conclusion
that doing so with pure alcohol did not provide complete but partial sterilization. Again, I don't know if
we can find papers on sterilizing with wine. Would be interested. Are there any reliable materials
that could reassure and support your notion that this is safe? Think about all the winter seasonal
health issues. Think about the fact that many people go to the church in very difficult situations
to pray for themselves when they are sick, or their loved ones, many elderly people comes too
and then, how can one be sure that they don't actually pass and exchange more of this then
one would hope they don't?

The methods and process is different but the end result is concerning.
https://www.ajicjournal.org/article/S0196-6553(17)30632-6/abstract

I would love someone to provide some supporting data that this is actually safe.


You have issues. This is a pretty long rant about something that doesn’t even concern you.

When somebody gets HIV from taking communion, come back here and report.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 21:07     Subject: What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
Anonymous wrote:Ok to gluten-free communion wafers bc the upcoming teen generation and many others want to be gluten-free. I believe you can ask for it at our church but my kid won't so just opts out.


But besides that, how about communion wafers that taste great? Our church's communion wafers taste like cardboard.

I think if you are getting "the bread of Life" or "the Body of Christ" it should be something to look forward to. It should hit all your senses: taste (salt and butter!) smell, texture, sight, maybe even a crunch! Or warm! I would love a little warm dinner roll. A donut hole.

I know this sounds amusing, but I'm actually serious. We should be looking forward to going to communion.


GF wafers already exist and are used by some denominations. There’s a slight issue where canonical law requires a certain amount of wheat flour to count as bread. However, my DD received only the Blood in parishes that were stricter.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 20:43     Subject: What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Lots of churches allow you to dip the wager into the wine instead of drinking directly from the cup. Also, alcohol sterilizes.


And that's better because?..

1. You do realize that any person who has any unstable hand due to age, be it old or young or have vision issues
can deep more then just the wafer but half of their fingers? In theory..

2. Okay, I get it, alcohol sterilizes. But what about actual science? Would you drink from that cup knowing
that half of the congregation has HIV because alcohol sterilizes and you would have FULL confidence that
it did it for you? Do you believe there is NO person with HIV or other grave disease at the time sharing?

3. Also, what exactly is the power of sterilization of the wine? What is the power of wine diluted with water
because - correct me if I am wrong - they wine has certain amount of water added to it during some if not most services?
I am afraid that even the purest of alcohols available.. of highest proof would not sterilize anything sufficiently
to trust it. But you are telling me that diluted wine makes it totally safe? In addition, I was observing the
service when people were drinking form the same cup, and then a person who administered, wiped the edge
clean after every person.. here comes the punch: with the same cloth!!!
So you tell me, was he actually cleaning the edge or decontaminating it with all the collected germs that
he wiped so far?

I am not an expert and I do respect all traditions but in this case it would be most beneficial to see some change
or at least run some extensive tests to make sure the people are safe.

This is a random scientific paper that researched medical tools sterilization and even this came with conclusion
that doing so with pure alcohol did not provide complete but partial sterilization. Again, I don't know if
we can find papers on sterilizing with wine. Would be interested. Are there any reliable materials
that could reassure and support your notion that this is safe? Think about all the winter seasonal
health issues. Think about the fact that many people go to the church in very difficult situations
to pray for themselves when they are sick, or their loved ones, many elderly people comes too
and then, how can one be sure that they don't actually pass and exchange more of this then
one would hope they don't?

The methods and process is different but the end result is concerning.
https://www.ajicjournal.org/article/S0196-6553(17)30632-6/abstract

I would love someone to provide some supporting data that this is actually safe.


This is actually pretty rare nowadays. Most churches use the individual glass cups.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 20:41     Subject: Re:What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
Anonymous wrote:Growing up in a midwest Lutheran church, we had teeny little glasses for communion wine.


But I though OP had things like menstrual huts in mind.


Most churches use these nowadays.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 20:40     Subject: What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Lots of churches allow you to dip the wager into the wine instead of drinking directly from the cup. Also, alcohol sterilizes.


And that's better because?..

1. You do realize that any person who has any unstable hand due to age, be it old or young or have vision issues
can deep more then just the wafer but half of their fingers? In theory..

2. Okay, I get it, alcohol sterilizes. But what about actual science? Would you drink from that cup knowing
that half of the congregation has HIV because alcohol sterilizes and you would have FULL confidence that
it did it for you? Do you believe there is NO person with HIV or other grave disease at the time sharing?

3. Also, what exactly is the power of sterilization of the wine? What is the power of wine diluted with water
because - correct me if I am wrong - they wine has certain amount of water added to it during some if not most services?
I am afraid that even the purest of alcohols available.. of highest proof would not sterilize anything sufficiently
to trust it. But you are telling me that diluted wine makes it totally safe? In addition, I was observing the
service when people were drinking form the same cup, and then a person who administered, wiped the edge
clean after every person.. here comes the punch: with the same cloth!!!
So you tell me, was he actually cleaning the edge or decontaminating it with all the collected germs that
he wiped so far?

I am not an expert and I do respect all traditions but in this case it would be most beneficial to see some change
or at least run some extensive tests to make sure the people are safe.

This is a random scientific paper that researched medical tools sterilization and even this came with conclusion
that doing so with pure alcohol did not provide complete but partial sterilization. Again, I don't know if
we can find papers on sterilizing with wine. Would be interested. Are there any reliable materials
that could reassure and support your notion that this is safe? Think about all the winter seasonal
health issues. Think about the fact that many people go to the church in very difficult situations
to pray for themselves when they are sick, or their loved ones, many elderly people comes too
and then, how can one be sure that they don't actually pass and exchange more of this then
one would hope they don't?

The methods and process is different but the end result is concerning.
https://www.ajicjournal.org/article/S0196-6553(17)30632-6/abstract

I would love someone to provide some supporting data that this is actually safe.


Just don't take communion if you have a problem with it. Generally there is an option of getting a blessing in lieu of communion.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 20:28     Subject: What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
Communion bread is leavened in some rites. That gives it a bit more substance and flavor. There's only so much one can do with unleavened bread made only of flour and water. At least in the Roman church any additives would render the bread invalid for consecration. The same with completely gluten free (as opposed to low gluten) "bread." No gluten, no bread, no consecration.

It is frankly astonishing that even congregation that presumably contain at least a significant percentage of people who would think it unbelievably disgusting to drink after someone else, folks line up to do just that when a chalice is involved. And alcohol, shmalcahol, nothing is getting sterilized in between. Even in the Middle Ages they knew enough to use precious metal straws.

One of the more interesting approaches is the one found in the Eastern/Orthodox churches, where the leavened bread is cut into cubes, soaked in the contents of the chalice and then carefully spoon-dropped into the mouths of the communicants. At least until somebody licks the spoon.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 18:40     Subject: What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
Ok to gluten-free communion wafers bc the upcoming teen generation and many others want to be gluten-free. I believe you can ask for it at our church but my kid won't so just opts out.


But besides that, how about communion wafers that taste great? Our church's communion wafers taste like cardboard.

I think if you are getting "the bread of Life" or "the Body of Christ" it should be something to look forward to. It should hit all your senses: taste (salt and butter!) smell, texture, sight, maybe even a crunch! Or warm! I would love a little warm dinner roll. A donut hole.

I know this sounds amusing, but I'm actually serious. We should be looking forward to going to communion.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 18:27     Subject: What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
Anonymous wrote:Lots of churches allow you to dip the wager into the wine instead of drinking directly from the cup. Also, alcohol sterilizes.


Does the priest or anyone who gives away the wafers do wear gloves? Just wondering?
Cause if they carry something, then the whole church can get it?

Also some people close their mouth just so that they come in contact with the fingers of the giver.

Why churches won't figure out some other way? Why people can not bring and hold their own
wafers and they can not be blessed comunaly and so they don't come in contact at no point?
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 18:25     Subject: What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
Anonymous wrote:Lots of churches allow you to dip the wager into the wine instead of drinking directly from the cup. Also, alcohol sterilizes.


And that's better because?..

1. You do realize that any person who has any unstable hand due to age, be it old or young or have vision issues
can deep more then just the wafer but half of their fingers? In theory..

2. Okay, I get it, alcohol sterilizes. But what about actual science? Would you drink from that cup knowing
that half of the congregation has HIV because alcohol sterilizes and you would have FULL confidence that
it did it for you? Do you believe there is NO person with HIV or other grave disease at the time sharing?

3. Also, what exactly is the power of sterilization of the wine? What is the power of wine diluted with water
because - correct me if I am wrong - they wine has certain amount of water added to it during some if not most services?
I am afraid that even the purest of alcohols available.. of highest proof would not sterilize anything sufficiently
to trust it. But you are telling me that diluted wine makes it totally safe? In addition, I was observing the
service when people were drinking form the same cup, and then a person who administered, wiped the edge
clean after every person.. here comes the punch: with the same cloth!!!
So you tell me, was he actually cleaning the edge or decontaminating it with all the collected germs that
he wiped so far?

I am not an expert and I do respect all traditions but in this case it would be most beneficial to see some change
or at least run some extensive tests to make sure the people are safe.

This is a random scientific paper that researched medical tools sterilization and even this came with conclusion
that doing so with pure alcohol did not provide complete but partial sterilization. Again, I don't know if
we can find papers on sterilizing with wine. Would be interested. Are there any reliable materials
that could reassure and support your notion that this is safe? Think about all the winter seasonal
health issues. Think about the fact that many people go to the church in very difficult situations
to pray for themselves when they are sick, or their loved ones, many elderly people comes too
and then, how can one be sure that they don't actually pass and exchange more of this then
one would hope they don't?

The methods and process is different but the end result is concerning.
https://www.ajicjournal.org/article/S0196-6553(17)30632-6/abstract

I would love someone to provide some supporting data that this is actually safe.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2020 13:40     Subject: What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
Lots of churches allow you to dip the wager into the wine instead of drinking directly from the cup. Also, alcohol sterilizes.
Anonymous
Post 02/04/2020 18:17     Subject: What religious rituals could be modified to adjust to times?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What rituals in what religion do you feel could be modified in modern times
when there is so much science that shows that some practices can
be in some way disadvantageous to the very religious community
and the society as a whole?

One that I can think of is shaking hands in churches.
Another I can think of and I can never get over it is drinking wine
by the entire church gathering from one cup.
Another is spreading smelly incents in temples that
cause lung irritations..

God only knows, literally.. what are people spreading and how far.


Incense was originally used to freshen the air in churches where unbathed people congregated.


Most probably. Also it is possible that the smoke could work as an air disinfectant.
However nowadays it is more of an irritant then anything else.


OMG! The ignorance!

The use of incense in religious rituals far predates Christianity and even Judaism. It was used in many faiths around the world as an offering (since it was costly) and metaphorically, the smoke was seen as carrying prayers to the deities. Even religions that worshipped out doors used incense. And this has been done in cultures with far better hygiene that medieval Europeans.


No, nobody questions that but did you ever wonder why? Go deeper.. people did not wash, diseases were rampant..
there is definitely some element of air cleaning in addition to the obvious. You are looking at the obvious.


Go beyond what you saw on Monty Python and the Holy Grail. People bathed in antiquity (look at Roman and Islamic baths) and still used incense. People even bathed during the Middle Ages far more than modern day pop culture gives them credit for. There’s documentation of bathing in streams and ponds even in chilly weather. But beyond all that, how would you account for incense use in Asian cultures where bathing was scrupulous like Japan?