Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Respectfully, looking at your daughter's profile and the schools she's interested in I'd say you're making a big mistake not pushing UVA a lot harder unless you're independently wealthy. Not only is it likely to be the best school she can get into, it's hardly just "state U." It has a decidedly private feel to it and is an academic peer to the schools you've listed. Why on earth would anyone go to Georgetown, for example, over in state UVA? Makes no sense.

You should also be aware that it's probably harder for an in state girl to get into W&M than UVA. A 3.8 is actually low for both schools unless it's unweighted and she has loads of AP classes.

No OP, please continue to listen to your child...not anonymous people on DCUM

Aren't YOU an anonymous person on DCUM? Arem't we all? Why are you here then?

Anonymous wrote:Respectfully, looking at your daughter's profile and the schools she's interested in I'd say you're making a big mistake not pushing UVA a lot harder unless you're independently wealthy. Not only is it likely to be the best school she can get into, it's hardly just "state U." It has a decidedly private feel to it and is an academic peer to the schools you've listed. Why on earth would anyone go to Georgetown, for example, over in state UVA? Makes no sense.

You should also be aware that it's probably harder for an in state girl to get into W&M than UVA. A 3.8 is actually low for both schools unless it's unweighted and she has loads of AP classes.

No OP, please continue to listen to your child...not anonymous people on DCUM

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the advice so far. I’ll try and answer some of the Qs abt DD. She has no interest in big state Us (otherwise we’d be pushing UVA a lot harder) so her only state school pick is WM which she’s not crazy about but we wanted her to pick one to look at. We took her to our alma maters (UT and Mich) and she had no interest. She did one thing that garnered a bit of national press attention (feel good local story tv story, articles in some national papers and magazines, a small award or two) which she is writing her common app on but other than that her activities are pretty standard. I’m white and DH is Persian (I guess technically also white) so no URM.

If the 15,000+ schools are out (UVA, JMU, VT, GMU), that leaves a ton of options like CNU, Longwood, Mary Washington, ODU...and those are more realistic options for her. With her GPA, she is probably just above average in her class, so stop pushing the highly selective schools. Check the scattergrams as mentioned earlier.

OP's kid is better than the schools you've listed. I wouldn't send my kid with her stats to any of the second tier VA schools.

Respectfully, looking at your daughter's profile and the schools she's interested in I'd say you're making a big mistake not pushing UVA a lot harder unless you're independently wealthy. Not only is it likely to be the best school she can get into, it's hardly just "state U." It has a decidedly private feel to it and is an academic peer to the schools you've listed. Why on earth would anyone go to Georgetown, for example, over in state UVA? Makes no sense.

You should also be aware that it's probably harder for an in state girl to get into W&M than UVA. A 3.8 is actually low for both schools unless it's unweighted and she has loads of AP classes.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the advice so far. I’ll try and answer some of the Qs abt DD. She has no interest in big state Us (otherwise we’d be pushing UVA a lot harder) so her only state school pick is WM which she’s not crazy about but we wanted her to pick one to look at. We took her to our alma maters (UT and Mich) and she had no interest. She did one thing that garnered a bit of national press attention (feel good local story tv story, articles in some national papers and magazines, a small award or two) which she is writing her common app on but other than that her activities are pretty standard. I’m white and DH is Persian (I guess technically also white) so no URM.

If the 15,000+ schools are out (UVA, JMU, VT, GMU), that leaves a ton of options like CNU, Longwood, Mary Washington, ODU...and those are more realistic options for her. With her GPA, she is probably just above average in her class, so stop pushing the highly selective schools. Check the scattergrams as mentioned earlier.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the advice so far. I’ll try and answer some of the Qs abt DD. She has no interest in big state Us (otherwise we’d be pushing UVA a lot harder) so her only state school pick is WM which she’s not crazy about but we wanted her to pick one to look at. We took her to our alma maters (UT and Mich) and she had no interest. She did one thing that garnered a bit of national press attention (feel good local story tv story, articles in some national papers and magazines, a small award or two) which she is writing her common app on but other than that her activities are pretty standard. I’m white and DH is Persian (I guess technically also white) so no URM.

I think your DC is a strong applicant. If full pay then schools like Tulane are a good match.

OP here. Thanks for all the advice so far. I’ll try and answer some of the Qs abt DD. She has no interest in big state Us (otherwise we’d be pushing UVA a lot harder) so her only state school pick is WM which she’s not crazy about but we wanted her to pick one to look at. We took her to our alma maters (UT and Mich) and she had no interest. She did one thing that garnered a bit of national press attention (feel good local story tv story, articles in some national papers and magazines, a small award or two) which she is writing her common app on but other than that her activities are pretty standard. I’m white and DH is Persian (I guess technically also white) so no URM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD is a junior. As of the end of first semester of this year she has a 3.8 and 1450. In my day those kids had a shot at top 20 but DD says that is not the case anymore. She can’t however seem to come up with what schools are her target/low reaches. Her favorite school right now is Northwestern (wants to ED) and she is also drawn to schools like Penn and GT. Her stats consistently seem to fall in the 25th percentile of the top tier schools she looks at and the 75th percentile of the more safety schools. Where is she 50th? What’s a good school for a strong but not quite perfect student? I don’t want her to have just reached and safeties.

If she doesn't have a hook beyond grades/test scores for a selective school, falling at the 75th is a target not a safety. Falling above the 75th%ile in a school that accepts at least 50% is what we've been told is the best way to think about a true safety.

Naviance (which you should have access to through your school as a junior) is great for schools where a lot of students apply but selectivity keeps going up so you have to tilt it up a bit because the data is often the last 3-5 years. For schools like Northwestern it's often less useful because fewer apply and you don't know if they had a hook like a sports recruitment, legacy, national award etc.

National award isn’t a hook, it’s an earned credential.

OP it sounds like DC wants a larger university but I’d look at schools like Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette, Union, Colgate.

Being an athlete is an earned credential as well. It is all a numbers game and an applicant either has a story that catches the eye, or they don't. There are thousands of talented, hard working students out there, and the most selective colleges really have their pick of how they want to round out a class.

Of course recruited athlete is an earned credential and of course the college can do whatever they’d like in admissions but it is important to distinguish between something an applicant has genuinely earned vs. something they just happen to be, like a legacy or an URM.

I would say it’s completely unimportant to distinguish among the various hooks if you are try to figure out the odds of acceptance for your kid with no hooks.

Many schools give no legacy consideration or consider it only for ED applicants (e.g. Penn and Cornell) so it is important to know where legacy may not provide any advantage at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD is a junior. As of the end of first semester of this year she has a 3.8 and 1450. In my day those kids had a shot at top 20 but DD says that is not the case anymore. She can’t however seem to come up with what schools are her target/low reaches. Her favorite school right now is Northwestern (wants to ED) and she is also drawn to schools like Penn and GT. Her stats consistently seem to fall in the 25th percentile of the top tier schools she looks at and the 75th percentile of the more safety schools. Where is she 50th? What’s a good school for a strong but not quite perfect student? I don’t want her to have just reached and safeties.

If she doesn't have a hook beyond grades/test scores for a selective school, falling at the 75th is a target not a safety. Falling above the 75th%ile in a school that accepts at least 50% is what we've been told is the best way to think about a true safety.

Naviance (which you should have access to through your school as a junior) is great for schools where a lot of students apply but selectivity keeps going up so you have to tilt it up a bit because the data is often the last 3-5 years. For schools like Northwestern it's often less useful because fewer apply and you don't know if they had a hook like a sports recruitment, legacy, national award etc.

National award isn’t a hook, it’s an earned credential.

OP it sounds like DC wants a larger university but I’d look at schools like Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette, Union, Colgate.

Being an athlete is an earned credential as well. It is all a numbers game and an applicant either has a story that catches the eye, or they don't. There are thousands of talented, hard working students out there, and the most selective colleges really have their pick of how they want to round out a class.

Of course recruited athlete is an earned credential and of course the college can do whatever they’d like in admissions but it is important to distinguish between something an applicant has genuinely earned vs. something they just happen to be, like a legacy or an URM.

There is a world of difference between being a legacy and being an URM. Succeeding in high school as a minority doesn't "just happen" it is earned.

You’re having difficulty understanding my point. Of course success in high school is earned, being a URM is not. And don’t sloppily conflate minority with URM.....those are two very different categories in college admissions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD is a junior. As of the end of first semester of this year she has a 3.8 and 1450. In my day those kids had a shot at top 20 but DD says that is not the case anymore. She can’t however seem to come up with what schools are her target/low reaches. Her favorite school right now is Northwestern (wants to ED) and she is also drawn to schools like Penn and GT. Her stats consistently seem to fall in the 25th percentile of the top tier schools she looks at and the 75th percentile of the more safety schools. Where is she 50th? What’s a good school for a strong but not quite perfect student? I don’t want her to have just reached and safeties.

If she doesn't have a hook beyond grades/test scores for a selective school, falling at the 75th is a target not a safety. Falling above the 75th%ile in a school that accepts at least 50% is what we've been told is the best way to think about a true safety.

Naviance (which you should have access to through your school as a junior) is great for schools where a lot of students apply but selectivity keeps going up so you have to tilt it up a bit because the data is often the last 3-5 years. For schools like Northwestern it's often less useful because fewer apply and you don't know if they had a hook like a sports recruitment, legacy, national award etc.

National award isn’t a hook, it’s an earned credential.

OP it sounds like DC wants a larger university but I’d look at schools like Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette, Union, Colgate.

Being an athlete is an earned credential as well. It is all a numbers game and an applicant either has a story that catches the eye, or they don't. There are thousands of talented, hard working students out there, and the most selective colleges really have their pick of how they want to round out a class.

Of course recruited athlete is an earned credential and of course the college can do whatever they’d like in admissions but it is important to distinguish between something an applicant has genuinely earned vs. something they just happen to be, like a legacy or an URM.

I would say it’s completely unimportant to distinguish among the various hooks if you are try to figure out the odds of acceptance for your kid with no hooks.

Succeeding in high school as a legacy is also earned.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD is a junior. As of the end of first semester of this year she has a 3.8 and 1450. In my day those kids had a shot at top 20 but DD says that is not the case anymore. She can’t however seem to come up with what schools are her target/low reaches. Her favorite school right now is Northwestern (wants to ED) and she is also drawn to schools like Penn and GT. Her stats consistently seem to fall in the 25th percentile of the top tier schools she looks at and the 75th percentile of the more safety schools. Where is she 50th? What’s a good school for a strong but not quite perfect student? I don’t want her to have just reached and safeties.

If she doesn't have a hook beyond grades/test scores for a selective school, falling at the 75th is a target not a safety. Falling above the 75th%ile in a school that accepts at least 50% is what we've been told is the best way to think about a true safety.

Naviance (which you should have access to through your school as a junior) is great for schools where a lot of students apply but selectivity keeps going up so you have to tilt it up a bit because the data is often the last 3-5 years. For schools like Northwestern it's often less useful because fewer apply and you don't know if they had a hook like a sports recruitment, legacy, national award etc.

National award isn’t a hook, it’s an earned credential.

OP it sounds like DC wants a larger university but I’d look at schools like Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette, Union, Colgate.

Being an athlete is an earned credential as well. It is all a numbers game and an applicant either has a story that catches the eye, or they don't. There are thousands of talented, hard working students out there, and the most selective colleges really have their pick of how they want to round out a class.

Of course recruited athlete is an earned credential and of course the college can do whatever they’d like in admissions but it is important to distinguish between something an applicant has genuinely earned vs. something they just happen to be, like a legacy or an URM.

There is a world of difference between being a legacy and being an URM. Succeeding in high school as a minority doesn't "just happen" it is earned.

OP, very roughly, I'd categorize colleges under, say, 30% acceptance rate to be reaches due to low acceptance rate, even if they look like a match for stats, so maybe you have a high match/low reach category. Then 30-50% acceptance rates as matches. >50% safeties.

So from a ranking perspective, look at national universities ranked somewhere around 30-60+ for matches, with high match/low reach category being in the 30s, and 40-60s being matches, 70s+ being safeties. Start with the ranking list and glance down the top 100+, picking a few in each part of that list, plus any other local options (such as a regional state U) that might make good safeties but are not ranked so high. This is my approach but problem is that in the match area of that list are a ton of public universities that are likely out of state and so not necessarily a great value or otherwise not awesome options. (I am not a fan of paying private prices for the large public experience, when my kid could get the large public experience for less in-state, if that is what they want.) Comb through and see what sounds interesting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD is a junior. As of the end of first semester of this year she has a 3.8 and 1450. In my day those kids had a shot at top 20 but DD says that is not the case anymore. She can’t however seem to come up with what schools are her target/low reaches. Her favorite school right now is Northwestern (wants to ED) and she is also drawn to schools like Penn and GT. Her stats consistently seem to fall in the 25th percentile of the top tier schools she looks at and the 75th percentile of the more safety schools. Where is she 50th? What’s a good school for a strong but not quite perfect student? I don’t want her to have just reached and safeties.

If she doesn't have a hook beyond grades/test scores for a selective school, falling at the 75th is a target not a safety. Falling above the 75th%ile in a school that accepts at least 50% is what we've been told is the best way to think about a true safety.

Naviance (which you should have access to through your school as a junior) is great for schools where a lot of students apply but selectivity keeps going up so you have to tilt it up a bit because the data is often the last 3-5 years. For schools like Northwestern it's often less useful because fewer apply and you don't know if they had a hook like a sports recruitment, legacy, national award etc.

National award isn’t a hook, it’s an earned credential.

OP it sounds like DC wants a larger university but I’d look at schools like Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette, Union, Colgate.

Being an athlete is an earned credential as well. It is all a numbers game and an applicant either has a story that catches the eye, or they don't. There are thousands of talented, hard working students out there, and the most selective colleges really have their pick of how they want to round out a class.

Of course recruited athlete is an earned credential and of course the college can do whatever they’d like in admissions but it is important to distinguish between something an applicant has genuinely earned vs. something they just happen to be, like a legacy or an URM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD is a junior. As of the end of first semester of this year she has a 3.8 and 1450. In my day those kids had a shot at top 20 but DD says that is not the case anymore. She can’t however seem to come up with what schools are her target/low reaches. Her favorite school right now is Northwestern (wants to ED) and she is also drawn to schools like Penn and GT. Her stats consistently seem to fall in the 25th percentile of the top tier schools she looks at and the 75th percentile of the more safety schools. Where is she 50th? What’s a good school for a strong but not quite perfect student? I don’t want her to have just reached and safeties.

If she doesn't have a hook beyond grades/test scores for a selective school, falling at the 75th is a target not a safety. Falling above the 75th%ile in a school that accepts at least 50% is what we've been told is the best way to think about a true safety.

Naviance (which you should have access to through your school as a junior) is great for schools where a lot of students apply but selectivity keeps going up so you have to tilt it up a bit because the data is often the last 3-5 years. For schools like Northwestern it's often less useful because fewer apply and you don't know if they had a hook like a sports recruitment, legacy, national award etc.

National award isn’t a hook, it’s an earned credential.

OP it sounds like DC wants a larger university but I’d look at schools like Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette, Union, Colgate.

Being an athlete is an earned credential as well. It is all a numbers game and an applicant either has a story that catches the eye, or they don't. There are thousands of talented, hard working students out there, and the most selective colleges really have their pick of how they want to round out a class.