Anonymous wrote:Can any couple not get all household chores done (cleaning, dishes, laundry) in one hour every day after the kids are in bed?

I don’t think we have low standards but DH and I get everything done in one hour and are ready for the next day. We get everything else done on weekends with one of us taking the kids and the other doing shopping and errands. I make three dinners and the kids lunch food on Sunday and still have time to spend time as a family.

I don’t see why it’s so hard either.

Since you said "can ANY couple" I'll chime in. I have one kid in his last year of day care who doesn't need his two hour nap anymore, we have lights out at 8:30 but it's a struggle to get him to actually sleep until 10. At the same time we have a baby whose "witching hour" hits between 8 and 11 every night and he nurses and fusses on and off. He also wakes up twice during the night still. My husband and I are not getting anywhere near enough sleep to start an hour of cleaning at 10 or 11 PM. Getting our stuff ready for the next morning is about all we can handle.

We do 10 minute tidying bursts to music when the older kid is awake so he can help clean up toys, but the vacuuming, bathroom cleaning, etc does not get done at 11 pm on weeknights. I'd really be very surprised if most people did that.

My mom worked, but her commute was 5 minutes. And her full time job started at 9 or 9:30 and ended at 4:30. My full time job starts at 8:45 and ends at 5:45 and my commute is 45 minutes long. That’s the difference. Time is a zero sum game.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know how typical this is but when we were growing up (in Alexandria, late 70s/80s) it was typical for there to be a SAHM or maybe a part time working mom and there was always household help, sometimes full time. Always an older AA lady. My mom barely cleaned, she did cook a little, and the kids were not expected to do much at all.

You don’t see the he problem with this arrangement?

“Older AA women” should just be around to clean up after while women do they can laze around? I doubt they were paid well either.

Come on. You say it like it’s a bad thing this is outdated now.

NP but I didn't read that as saying it like it's a bad thing it's outdated. I think the PP was pointing out that previous generations did have help.

Anonymous wrote:I don't know how typical this is but when we were growing up (in Alexandria, late 70s/80s) it was typical for there to be a SAHM or maybe a part time working mom and there was always household help, sometimes full time. Always an older AA lady. My mom barely cleaned, she did cook a little, and the kids were not expected to do much at all.

You don’t see the he problem with this arrangement?

“Older AA women” should just be around to clean up after while women do they can laze around? I doubt they were paid well either.

Come on. You say it like it’s a bad thing this is outdated now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our parents in many cases worked fewer hours, had shorter commutes, and more family help. They were probably in better shape too, so more energetic.

Oh yeah, AND parenting is much more involved. The culture is to spend more quality time with your kids playing and reading and taking them to activities. Rather than brushing them off so you can clean.

That's the fun stuff everyone should want to do though. If you don't want to read to your kids or play a game with them, that's a problem.

clean after they go to bed.

What are your work hours like? Many, many people with more demanding jobs do more work after the kids go to bed. It's not just being lazy.

I don't know how typical this is but when we were growing up (in Alexandria, late 70s/80s) it was typical for there to be a SAHM or maybe a part time working mom and there was always household help, sometimes full time. Always an older AA lady. My mom barely cleaned, she did cook a little, and the kids were not expected to do much at all.

Anonymous wrote:Can any couple not get all household chores done (cleaning, dishes, laundry) in one hour every day after the kids are in bed?

I don’t think we have low standards but DH and I get everything done in one hour and are ready for the next day. We get everything else done on weekends with one of us taking the kids and the other doing shopping and errands. I make three dinners and the kids lunch food on Sunday and still have time to spend time as a family.

I don’t see why it’s so hard either.

I’m the genex who posted up thread but I think it is bc many, many people do not have this egalitarian arrangement with their spouse. Take the historical norm of women doing the housework. Couple it with them working but retaining their deficit mindset and likely actual deficit in earnings, and women will continue to do more than men. Outsourcing is a better option than fighting, resenting, or nagging.

Can any couple not get all household chores done (cleaning, dishes, laundry) in one hour every day after the kids are in bed?

I don’t think we have low standards but DH and I get everything done in one hour and are ready for the next day. We get everything else done on weekends with one of us taking the kids and the other doing shopping and errands. I make three dinners and the kids lunch food on Sunday and still have time to spend time as a family.

I don’t see why it’s so hard either.

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a millennial. I’m 43 and I’ll chime in. Have you ever seen that cartoon with men and women on a race track? The men are clear, but for the women to complete the race, they must clear hurdles. The hurdles are cooking, laundry, cleaning, etc. These are real jobs and it takes real labor to do them. Raising a child is also a job. Having a job is also a job. As women, we are constantly peddled this myth that we can and should be able to do all three jobs well. As a working mom, I dread that excruciating moment of the day when I come in the door after preschool pickup. We are all tired, hungry , and cranky. But everyone looks to mom to fire up second shift. For me, hiring help has been a way to ease that transition- I walk in the door and the chores are done and dinner is made. I can actually enjoy my evening. I don’t know op, the grind is hard for some people. It’s hard for me. So I paid someone to make it easier. She needs the work and it helps her, so it’s win-win.

I'm guessing you pay that person well. So you're not what the OP is talking about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. So what I've noticed is a lot of women saying their husbands work SUCH demanding "high powered" jobs (hate that phrase btw, it sounds really stupid) that they cannot be expected to ever take a kid sick day, snow day, or lift a finger at home.

I find this hard to believe because even though my husband is in a well paid profession (finance - he makes around 850k now), as he's gotten more senior, his hours have *really* scaled back. A lot of it has to do with better technology but also being able to delegate certain bitch work tasks. He's home by 6 every night, minimal travel, and flexible hours. Today he's leaving at 9 to take one of our kids to the doctor because I have an appointment elsewhere.

I'm 38, he's 39 so we're around the age as most people on here who have kids.

Oh, yeah, this is totally typical. I completely understand why you are puzzled that this is not everyone's experience.

That PP's husband makes a lot of money and that's not typical. However, what is typical is doing less work as you get more senior. You have way more responsibility but less actual work. It's interesting how it works like that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our parents in many cases worked fewer hours, had shorter commutes, and more family help. They were probably in better shape too, so more energetic.

Oh yeah, AND parenting is much more involved. The culture is to spend more quality time with your kids playing and reading and taking them to activities. Rather than brushing them off so you can clean.

That's the fun stuff everyone should want to do though. If you don't want to read to your kids or play a game with them, that's a problem.

clean after they go to bed.

There's only been a short period of time where two working parents might be affluent enough to hire help. During that period:
a) work hours have expanded thanks to technology, houses have gotten bigger (it takes twice as long to clean two bathrooms as one).
b) food culture has shifted from a time when using canned ingredients was the mark of a thrifty and efficient home cook to one where labor intensive food prep is virtuous and doing otherwise is shorting your family.
c) parenting culture has shifted so sending your 8 year old to the park alone until dark so mommy can mop the floors is no longer acceptable.
d) for many people, it's no longer acceptable to exploit vulnerable populations to work for low wages. Not everyone, obviously.

Even among lower income families, where there is a much longer history of two working parents, children and the elderly are much less likely today to be working as much inside the home.

None of this is bad, necessarily, and a lot of it is good! But the working parents are feeling the squeeze.

Anonymous wrote:NP. So what I've noticed is a lot of women saying their husbands work SUCH demanding "high powered" jobs (hate that phrase btw, it sounds really stupid) that they cannot be expected to ever take a kid sick day, snow day, or lift a finger at home.

I find this hard to believe because even though my husband is in a well paid profession (finance - he makes around 850k now), as he's gotten more senior, his hours have *really* scaled back. A lot of it has to do with better technology but also being able to delegate certain bitch work tasks. He's home by 6 every night, minimal travel, and flexible hours. Today he's leaving at 9 to take one of our kids to the doctor because I have an appointment elsewhere.

I'm 38, he's 39 so we're around the age as most people on here who have kids.

Oh, yeah, this is totally typical. I completely understand why you are puzzled that this is not everyone's experience.

1) People mostly work longer hours
2) Even when they work 40 hours a week, they are mostly expected to juggle emails and messages pertaining to work outside of work hours
3) It is much less common to have a SAHP
4) Therefore it is much more common to have to squeeze all of your errands into lunch breaks, evenings and weekends so they take much longer
5) You actually have to supervise your kids now. I was the sole aftercare for myself and my younger brother at age 10. Now you have to either pay someone to supervise your kids or do it yourself. Legally. Even if you think your kid is old enough, someone could technically call CPS on me for running into the gas station to pay cash for my gas if it meant my kids were alone in a car for 1 whole minute.
6) There are far fewer life skills taught to my generation. I was lucky that prior to age 10 I had a SAHM, so I actually got to watch her cook dinner every day, and I have a general idea of how to make lots of things. If I had gone from daycare to latchkey kid, when was I supposed to pick up skills like cooking, how to manage finances, how to keep a clean house? If you already know how to do these things, then they seem like simple, basic tasks, but if your own parents did much of this when you were asleep or at daycare or at school, then you may literally not know how.

I’m not a millennial. I’m 43 and I’ll chime in. Have you ever seen that cartoon with men and women on a race track? The men are clear, but for the women to complete the race, they must clear hurdles. The hurdles are cooking, laundry, cleaning, etc. These are real jobs and it takes real labor to do them. Raising a child is also a job. Having a job is also a job. As women, we are constantly peddled this myth that we can and should be able to do all three jobs well. As a working mom, I dread that excruciating moment of the day when I come in the door after preschool pickup. We are all tired, hungry , and cranky. But everyone looks to mom to fire up second shift. For me, hiring help has been a way to ease that transition- I walk in the door and the chores are done and dinner is made. I can actually enjoy my evening. I don’t know op, the grind is hard for some people. It’s hard for me. So I paid someone to make it easier. She needs the work and it helps her, so it’s win-win.