Anonymous
Post 12/19/2019 11:50     Subject: Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?
Anonymous wrote:I am glad to hear that FCPS takes more into account than a single test score. But I will also point out that a high score on one of these tests is a more likely marker of cognitive ability than some of the other metrics highlighted in the GBRS.

It is also readily apparent that FCPS employees populate these forums and are quick to attack parents personally by saying they need therapy or are desperate when we point out concerns with the system. We all see what our kids go through. Calling one of us (a parent) desperate or in need of therapy for pointing out a lack of differentiation and an over-reliance on worksheets by your employer does not help your credibility.


I am not an employee of FCPS but your posts make it very clear that you are dissatisfied with the education that your child is receiving. I would go so far as to say that you are angry.

Much of what you say I agree with. I think that there should be more differentiation in classes then there currently is. My kid is bored with a fair amount of what they are doing in second grade. He is getting "level II" services in the form of different worksheets and a higher reading group. None of which is particularly exciting. That is why we are applying for AAP, to have a different option.

I wish AAP was more standardized throughout the system. I wish Level 2-3 services were more standardized. I suspect that there are good reasons why this is not happening, different schools have different kids with different needs and programs cannot be one size fits all.

That said, the CogAT and NNAT are easily prepped. Those scores can be inflated. Basing acceptance on a test score that can be prepped is not useful. And yes, you can argue that a 140 with prep is a 130 without prep and a 130 is still pretty good, but a 130 is not in pool. The GBRSs and work samples are subjective. That is why there is an appeals process. You can see the packet once the initial phase is done and appeal. So parents can address the GBRSs if those were poor or submit different work samples. Or provide a WISC.

You can apply again in third grade. We had a neighbor whose kid did not apply until 4th grade and started in 5th grade.


Anonymous
Post 12/19/2019 11:28     Subject: Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?
I am glad to hear that FCPS takes more into account than a single test score. But I will also point out that a high score on one of these tests is a more likely marker of cognitive ability than some of the other metrics highlighted in the GBRS.

It is also readily apparent that FCPS employees populate these forums and are quick to attack parents personally by saying they need therapy or are desperate when we point out concerns with the system. We all see what our kids go through. Calling one of us (a parent) desperate or in need of therapy for pointing out a lack of differentiation and an over-reliance on worksheets by your employer does not help your credibility.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2019 11:10     Subject: Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?
Anonymous wrote:Ha! Mensa should change. FCPS knows better. Says everything. Here is what I have seen so far in FCPS: No differentiation until third grade AAP. Teaching the bottom 10 kids to meet the SOL test scores all day while making the other 18 kids do busy work. Schools coasting on the scores from kids that are left for their parents to teach. Movie day every other week. But no, FCPS will NOT accept the results of a cognitive abilities test. No. Those reflect skills that can be taught through prepping, like by doing puzzles, or playing with legos, or actively engaging or challenging a child. Those tests might even reveal aptitude in a child that is lost in a crowd of 28. Listen to the “holistic” approach instead. All hail the GBRS!!! If you have a loud mouth jerk, that is language arts aptitude! Consistently observed speaking with confidence! Consistently shows exceptional motivation to succeed! How about video games and screen time? Consistently observed using technology in advanced applications! Continually disrupts class to draw attention to themselves. Consistently observed displaying a keen sense of humor!!!! Everyone is exceptional and deserves access to resources to meet those needs!!! Except if you score high enough on a non-language based test to get into Mensa, but have been overlooked, and shoved in the corner, by a school system that can’t bother with differentiation in the classroom. In that case, you are probably a “prepper.”


I am guessing that private school is not an option?
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2019 10:53     Subject: Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?
Anonymous wrote:I’m not angry my kid is not in AAP. I am disappointed in FCPS. But yes, feel free to attempt to discredit the substance of my accurate characterization of the GBRS with a personal attack suggesting I need therapy. It reveals you do not have a substantive rebuttal. Thank you.


The holistic approach isn't based entirely on the GBRS, either. The committee is simply looking for something beyond a single score on a test that is very easily prepped. A high score + a good work sample would be enough. Or a high score + some compelling letter of recommendation, parent questionnaire, significant award, or whatever. Yes the process is imperfect, and some small number of truly gifted kids are rejected first round who ought not to be. Those kids all eventually get in on appeals or get in the next year. If the kid has one high test score, but year after year fails to in any way impress the teachers or produce any signs at all of giftedness, it's more likely that the high test score is the aberration than it is that the kid is a stealth genius.

Referring to Mensa makes you look a bit desperate. No one takes Mensa seriously, and Mensa membership is pretty meaningless. DYS, triple nine, and many other gifted societies don't accept CogAT scores, because the CogAT is a weak test used only because it's cheap.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2019 10:01     Subject: Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?

Oh boy. It might help to talk to a therapist about why you are so very angry that your child is not in AAP.



Ha! You don’t like FCPS? You are angry. You need therapy. Why don’t you just say "Such a nasty woman."
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2019 09:39     Subject: Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?
I’m not angry my kid is not in AAP. I am disappointed in FCPS. But yes, feel free to attempt to discredit the substance of my accurate characterization of the GBRS with a personal attack suggesting I need therapy. It reveals you do not have a substantive rebuttal. Thank you.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2019 09:32     Subject: Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?
The creator of the CogAT has stated that it is vulnerable to prepping. Any institution that wishes to capture only kids who are truly top 2% should not use CogAT. CogAT is not an IQ test and can’t technically identify intellectually gifted children.

It is bizarre to me that a WISC of 130 or higher wouldn’t grant automatic acceptance to AAP.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2019 09:29     Subject: Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?
Anonymous wrote:Ha! Mensa should change. FCPS knows better. Says everything. Here is what I have seen so far in FCPS: No differentiation until third grade AAP. Teaching the bottom 10 kids to meet the SOL test scores all day while making the other 18 kids do busy work. Schools coasting on the scores from kids that are left for their parents to teach. Movie day every other week. But no, FCPS will NOT accept the results of a cognitive abilities test. No. Those reflect skills that can be taught through prepping, like by doing puzzles, or playing with legos, or actively engaging or challenging a child. Those tests might even reveal aptitude in a child that is lost in a crowd of 28. Listen to the “holistic” approach instead. All hail the GBRS!!! If you have a loud mouth jerk, that is language arts aptitude! Consistently observed speaking with confidence! Consistently shows exceptional motivation to succeed! How about video games and screen time? Consistently observed using technology in advanced applications! Continually disrupts class to draw attention to themselves. Consistently observed displaying a keen sense of humor!!!! Everyone is exceptional and deserves access to resources to meet those needs!!! Except if you score high enough on a non-language based test to get into Mensa, but have been overlooked, and shoved in the corner, by a school system that can’t bother with differentiation in the classroom. In that case, you are probably a “prepper.”


Oh boy. It might help to talk to a therapist about why you are so very angry that your child is not in AAP.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2019 09:24     Subject: Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?
Ha! Mensa should change. FCPS knows better. Says everything. Here is what I have seen so far in FCPS: No differentiation until third grade AAP. Teaching the bottom 10 kids to meet the SOL test scores all day while making the other 18 kids do busy work. Schools coasting on the scores from kids that are left for their parents to teach. Movie day every other week. But no, FCPS will NOT accept the results of a cognitive abilities test. No. Those reflect skills that can be taught through prepping, like by doing puzzles, or playing with legos, or actively engaging or challenging a child. Those tests might even reveal aptitude in a child that is lost in a crowd of 28. Listen to the “holistic” approach instead. All hail the GBRS!!! If you have a loud mouth jerk, that is language arts aptitude! Consistently observed speaking with confidence! Consistently shows exceptional motivation to succeed! How about video games and screen time? Consistently observed using technology in advanced applications! Continually disrupts class to draw attention to themselves. Consistently observed displaying a keen sense of humor!!!! Everyone is exceptional and deserves access to resources to meet those needs!!! Except if you score high enough on a non-language based test to get into Mensa, but have been overlooked, and shoved in the corner, by a school system that can’t bother with differentiation in the classroom. In that case, you are probably a “prepper.”
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2019 09:12     Subject: Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?
Anonymous wrote:Anybody else bothered that scores that would qualify a kid for joining Mensa are not necessarily good enough to demonstrate a child is gifted in FCPS, but merely place them in a pool with a 1/3 rejection rate?

https://www.us.mensa.org/join/testscores/qualifying-test-scores/


No.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2019 08:36     Subject: Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?
Anonymous wrote:Anybody else bothered that scores that would qualify a kid for joining Mensa are not necessarily good enough to demonstrate a child is gifted in FCPS, but merely place them in a pool with a 1/3 rejection rate?

https://www.us.mensa.org/join/testscores/qualifying-test-scores/


That has been brought up multiple times in this forum. It is what it is. FCPS defines "potentially gifted" in a very holistic way, whereas Mensa uses single test scores. Honestly, though, since the CogAT and NNAT are so easy to prep, Mensa probably should no longer accept those scores.

Anonymous
Post 12/19/2019 08:16     Subject: Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?
Anybody else bothered that scores that would qualify a kid for joining Mensa are not necessarily good enough to demonstrate a child is gifted in FCPS, but merely place them in a pool with a 1/3 rejection rate?

https://www.us.mensa.org/join/testscores/qualifying-test-scores/
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2019 07:48     Subject: Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?
You should definitely include it in the initial application. It is a very high score (don't let folks tell you otherwise) and it makes the NNAT score look like an outlier, especially if GBRS is good.

FWIW, I included a 129 WISC with a 109 NNAT and 134 Cogat and 14 or 15 GBRS (can't remember which) and she got in on the first round.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2019 16:08     Subject: Re:Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am still waiting for my kid’s results. But wow the above scores with 132 composite and 126/134/120 is not strong enough on its own?! I did not know that.


The process is holistic. If the CogAT is the only thing in the packet that indicates giftedness, it probably won't be enough. Even kids who are in-pool need either a good GBRS, good work samples, or something else in the packet that convinces the committee to admit the kid. About 1/3 of in pool kids are rejected, and most of those kids probably only had a high test score.


This. If 1/3 of in pool candidates are rejected, it is likely those with one score that is just barely in pool and one that is nowhere close. Of course, here, you have a WISC score that is consistent with the CogAT and combined they would certainly point to a determination of eligible. Why not include it. You may not need it if GBRS is strong but you can’t know that and it sounds like the teacher doesn’t perceive OP’s kids as very smart. Include it OP. With it, I’d be shocked if your kid were not found eligible.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2019 11:42     Subject: Re:Include FSIQ in Initial Packet?
Anonymous wrote:I am still waiting for my kid’s results. But wow the above scores with 132 composite and 126/134/120 is not strong enough on its own?! I did not know that.


The process is holistic. If the CogAT is the only thing in the packet that indicates giftedness, it probably won't be enough. Even kids who are in-pool need either a good GBRS, good work samples, or something else in the packet that convinces the committee to admit the kid. About 1/3 of in pool kids are rejected, and most of those kids probably only had a high test score.