Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I think the most important thing is having experience actually seeing pregnant women in a clinical setting. I value experience more than a formal education, so I would consider CNM/NP not that different from seeing an OB.

Experience, training, education, and intelligence are the most important factors. The medical profession has a higher bar to entry than any other professional. Think about why that is and think about why people decide to become NPs or midwives versus MDs.

Veterinary school is the hardest to get into

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I think the most important thing is having experience actually seeing pregnant women in a clinical setting. I value experience more than a formal education, so I would consider CNM/NP not that different from seeing an OB.

Experience, training, education, and intelligence are the most important factors. The medical profession has a higher bar to entry than any other professional. Think about why that is and think about why people decide to become NPs or midwives versus MDs.

NP- look, if you don't want to see an NP or a CNM then don't. But it's way off base and insulting to assume that all nurses or midwives would have preferred to be an MD but they just weren't smart enough. There are a variety of reasons people go into nursing and to write them off as just dumber doctors is really absurd.

I think you misread the above post. My intention was not that nurses are not as smart as doctors and couldn't get into med school. Of course people have a variety of reasons but your equation of NPs and midwives is also absurd. They are not equivalent. That's the reality. If you think you are getting good healthcare seeing a midwife or NP, then good for you. I only see MDs.

You are backtracking, it's clear what you meant. Again, if you only see MDs that's your choice, but don't insult an entire profession- which we in fact need more of- because of your bias. In fact, maybe you should ask YOURSELF why you have that bias. Nursing and midwifery are traditionally feminine career paths, as are many of the caring professions that we chronically undervalue and underpay in this country.

The post clearly struck a nerve with you and it has to do with you, not me. I just love posters who tell me what I actually meant to say. Um, no, you don't get to interpret my words to serve your own interests. Why exactly does society need more NPs and midwives? They're becoming quite prolific within the medical sector because in part due to managed care's constraints on medical doctors. I'm not sure what your point is about the traditional female career paths. Isn't it a good thing that women are going into the medical profession and becoming MDs? The females in my family are (and have long been) doctors and medical students. Why is that bad that they didn't opt to become nurses?

DP, but it's also the recognition that NPs/CNMs are very well trained to manage typically progressing pregnancies, and most pregnancies are just that. So, sure, the additional training for an OB is useful in some cases, but it's not necessary in others.

Also, as someone who has worked with many, many MDs, I don't give automatic respect to that credential. There are plenty of lousy ones out there. I've also seen many of the young people who are able to get into medical school, and it's not at all a guarantee that they'll be good physicians, which requires SO much more than sheer brainpower. I'll take a well-trained, experienced, thoughtful, competent NP/CNM *any* day over some of the physicians I've worked with. They have their biases, too, and to lionize them won't get you better care.

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I think the most important thing is having experience actually seeing pregnant women in a clinical setting. I value experience more than a formal education, so I would consider CNM/NP not that different from seeing an OB.

+1 My NP has been seeing patients at the practice for 20 years. She has an excellent reputation within the department and with patients.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I think the most important thing is having experience actually seeing pregnant women in a clinical setting. I value experience more than a formal education, so I would consider CNM/NP not that different from seeing an OB.

Experience, training, education, and intelligence are the most important factors. The medical profession has a higher bar to entry than any other professional. Think about why that is and think about why people decide to become NPs or midwives versus MDs.

NP- look, if you don't want to see an NP or a CNM then don't. But it's way off base and insulting to assume that all nurses or midwives would have preferred to be an MD but they just weren't smart enough. There are a variety of reasons people go into nursing and to write them off as just dumber doctors is really absurd.

I think you misread the above post. My intention was not that nurses are not as smart as doctors and couldn't get into med school. Of course people have a variety of reasons but your equation of NPs and midwives is also absurd. They are not equivalent. That's the reality. If you think you are getting good healthcare seeing a midwife or NP, then good for you. I only see MDs.

You are backtracking, it's clear what you meant. Again, if you only see MDs that's your choice, but don't insult an entire profession- which we in fact need more of- because of your bias. In fact, maybe you should ask YOURSELF why you have that bias. Nursing and midwifery are traditionally feminine career paths, as are many of the caring professions that we chronically undervalue and underpay in this country.

The post clearly struck a nerve with you and it has to do with you, not me. I just love posters who tell me what I actually meant to say. Um, no, you don't get to interpret my words to serve your own interests. Why exactly does society need more NPs and midwives? They're becoming quite prolific within the medical sector because in part due to managed care's constraints on medical doctors. I'm not sure what your point is about the traditional female career paths. Isn't it a good thing that women are going into the medical profession and becoming MDs? The females in my family are (and have long been) doctors and medical students. Why is that bad that they didn't opt to become nurses?

Most OBs today are female, PP. Also, the medical model and the nursing model are very different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I think the most important thing is having experience actually seeing pregnant women in a clinical setting. I value experience more than a formal education, so I would consider CNM/NP not that different from seeing an OB.

Experience, training, education, and intelligence are the most important factors. The medical profession has a higher bar to entry than any other professional. Think about why that is and think about why people decide to become NPs or midwives versus MDs.

NP- look, if you don't want to see an NP or a CNM then don't. But it's way off base and insulting to assume that all nurses or midwives would have preferred to be an MD but they just weren't smart enough. There are a variety of reasons people go into nursing and to write them off as just dumber doctors is really absurd.

I think you misread the above post. My intention was not that nurses are not as smart as doctors and couldn't get into med school. Of course people have a variety of reasons but your equation of NPs and midwives is also absurd. They are not equivalent. That's the reality. If you think you are getting good healthcare seeing a midwife or NP, then good for you. I only see MDs.

You are backtracking, it's clear what you meant. Again, if you only see MDs that's your choice, but don't insult an entire profession- which we in fact need more of- because of your bias. In fact, maybe you should ask YOURSELF why you have that bias. Nursing and midwifery are traditionally feminine career paths, as are many of the caring professions that we chronically undervalue and underpay in this country.

Also, I never once said they were equivalent, only that my CNMs are all highly educated. Of course a PhD and an MD are not the same, but both require a certain amount of intelligence. You are pretending that all nurses are the same, when in fact they come with a variety of educational backgrounds.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I think the most important thing is having experience actually seeing pregnant women in a clinical setting. I value experience more than a formal education, so I would consider CNM/NP not that different from seeing an OB.

Experience, training, education, and intelligence are the most important factors. The medical profession has a higher bar to entry than any other professional. Think about why that is and think about why people decide to become NPs or midwives versus MDs.

NP- look, if you don't want to see an NP or a CNM then don't. But it's way off base and insulting to assume that all nurses or midwives would have preferred to be an MD but they just weren't smart enough. There are a variety of reasons people go into nursing and to write them off as just dumber doctors is really absurd.

I think you misread the above post. My intention was not that nurses are not as smart as doctors and couldn't get into med school. Of course people have a variety of reasons but your equation of NPs and midwives is also absurd. They are not equivalent. That's the reality. If you think you are getting good healthcare seeing a midwife or NP, then good for you. I only see MDs.

You are backtracking, it's clear what you meant. Again, if you only see MDs that's your choice, but don't insult an entire profession- which we in fact need more of- because of your bias. In fact, maybe you should ask YOURSELF why you have that bias. Nursing and midwifery are traditionally feminine career paths, as are many of the caring professions that we chronically undervalue and underpay in this country.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I think the most important thing is having experience actually seeing pregnant women in a clinical setting. I value experience more than a formal education, so I would consider CNM/NP not that different from seeing an OB.

Experience, training, education, and intelligence are the most important factors. The medical profession has a higher bar to entry than any other professional. Think about why that is and think about why people decide to become NPs or midwives versus MDs.

NP- look, if you don't want to see an NP or a CNM then don't. But it's way off base and insulting to assume that all nurses or midwives would have preferred to be an MD but they just weren't smart enough. There are a variety of reasons people go into nursing and to write them off as just dumber doctors is really absurd.

I think you misread the above post. My intention was not that nurses are not as smart as doctors and couldn't get into med school. Of course people have a variety of reasons but your equation of NPs and midwives is also absurd. They are not equivalent. That's the reality. If you think you are getting good healthcare seeing a midwife or NP, then good for you. I only see MDs.

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with those who say the training is roughly the same. The medical school path is incredibly different plus with the competitiveness of getting into medical school, you know for sure that most US MDs had to be top GPAs with high test scores. Med school is 4 rigorous years with multiple national board exams and then an intense 4 years with over 80 hours a week working during residency.

But I agree that I love working with midwives for the uncomplicated things.

I believe the poster comparing training pathways was saying that a CNM and NP have roughly the same amount of training, with the former being specifically focused on delivering babies rather than general medicine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I think the most important thing is having experience actually seeing pregnant women in a clinical setting. I value experience more than a formal education, so I would consider CNM/NP not that different from seeing an OB.

Experience, training, education, and intelligence are the most important factors. The medical profession has a higher bar to entry than any other professional. Think about why that is and think about why people decide to become NPs or midwives versus MDs.

NP- look, if you don't want to see an NP or a CNM then don't. But it's way off base and insulting to assume that all nurses or midwives would have preferred to be an MD but they just weren't smart enough. There are a variety of reasons people go into nursing and to write them off as just dumber doctors is really absurd.

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I think the most important thing is having experience actually seeing pregnant women in a clinical setting. I value experience more than a formal education, so I would consider CNM/NP not that different from seeing an OB.

Experience, training, education, and intelligence are the most important factors. The medical profession has a higher bar to entry than any other professional. Think about why that is and think about why people decide to become NPs or midwives versus MDs.

I mean, I think the most important thing is having experience actually seeing pregnant women in a clinical setting. I value experience more than a formal education, so I would consider CNM/NP not that different from seeing an OB.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW all of my CNMs have PHDs.

A PhD in nursing is an academic degree and does not equate to more medical knowledge in the clinical sense

+1. A PhD prepares someone for a research career.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW all of my CNMs have PHDs.

A PhD in nursing is an academic degree and does not equate to more medical knowledge in the clinical sense

Of course not, but it's a lot more than a CNA. My point is that the CNMs are extremely educated and knowledgeable.

Anonymous wrote:FWIW all of my CNMs have PHDs.

A PhD in nursing is an academic degree and does not equate to more medical knowledge in the clinical sense