I would figure out how to reset your relationship with her. You have to give her age appropriate freedom. You have to give her opportunities to be successful.

12-13 was very hard with my ods, but by 14 he is easy, easy, easy. Hang in there. Don't let these problems permanently damage your relationship. She is growing and changing fast, and you are the adult here.

I agree, you need to clear the scales and let the old stuff go. It sounds like your budget is super tight and you are taking your financial stress out on her by overpunishing in ways that have given her zero left to lose.

I know that when I am stressed out, I am not patient and I overreact.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you were overly harsh with consequences and she is about the point where she has zero to lose. Unless she has a diagnosis? Does she have a diagnosis?

I have a kid who is much harder than anything you’ve described. One thing that stuck out in your post is that your daughter has nothing to lose. You have consequences her to death and she can never get out of the rabbit hole so why bother to try. Now she’s just been set up to fail. I believe you have good intentions. But you should probably take a step back and figure out how to clean the scale for her.

One place I’d start is to figure out why she’s doing things like taking a kindle to school and why you thought it was such a good idea to make that your hill to die on.

I agree with this. The lunch thing particularly jumped out at me. Does she get any say in what you’re packing her for lunch? If she gets to choose her lunches and then doesn’t eat them, that’s one thing. But if you’re packing things she truly dislikes or that she doesn’t feel comfortable eating at school (e.g., you pack tuna salad sandwiches and people tease her for having fish breath afterward), then you’re basically demanding that shemgo hungry so you can maintain control over what gets packed for lunch.

Honestly, my hunch is that there are a lot of control battles going on between you and your daughter, and that not all of them necessarily need to be fought. If that’s the case, figuring out some places you can relax the iron fist and let her have some control over her own life might make things much better.

Yup-- OP, my DS has ADHD and when I take too many things for egregious behavior, he has nothing to lose. He stops caring and will simply refuse to do even simple things like completing homework or complying with requests.

Your DD is oppositional (possibly clinically with the stealing). The person who suggested empowering parents is right on- the founder (RIP) was an oppositional/conduct disordered teen. When he set up his systems he knew how oppositional teens behave-- and his speciality is out of bounds behavior like stealing, rebellion, verbal abuse, etc.

I think your DD might benefit from the Explosive Child also. It's about a book about collaborative problem solving...so, for instance, the lunch money. She doesn't like what is packed, so copes by running up a bill, possibly not realizing just how much money she spent, or deferring consequences instead of dealing with the lunch issue head on. This may not be oppositional- it may be a poor coping skill that can be overcome with collaborative problem solving. Your interpretation may be that she doesn't care, but it could be that she *appears* not to care because it's the only way she can deal with your anger.

You are not alone OP-- my DS12 was so extremely disrespectful to me in the car this morning that when he said "I'm moving out at eighteen and never coming back," I started to smile. I love him and of course, I want to have a good relationship, but this age is very trying. The best thing that you can do is set advance boundaries and consequences (and be absolutely consistent with following through), remain calm and in control (your kids will lose respect for you if you don't), and provide as much independence and choice as they can possibly manage (realizing that they will have missteps).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you were overly harsh with consequences and she is about the point where she has zero to lose. Unless she has a diagnosis? Does she have a diagnosis?

I have a kid who is much harder than anything you’ve described. One thing that stuck out in your post is that your daughter has nothing to lose. You have consequences her to death and she can never get out of the rabbit hole so why bother to try. Now she’s just been set up to fail. I believe you have good intentions. But you should probably take a step back and figure out how to clean the scale for her.

One place I’d start is to figure out why she’s doing things like taking a kindle to school and why you thought it was such a good idea to make that your hill to die on.

I agree with this. The lunch thing particularly jumped out at me. Does she get any say in what you’re packing her for lunch? If she gets to choose her lunches and then doesn’t eat them, that’s one thing. But if you’re packing things she truly dislikes or that she doesn’t feel comfortable eating at school (e.g., you pack tuna salad sandwiches and people tease her for having fish breath afterward), then you’re basically demanding that shemgo hungry so you can maintain control over what gets packed for lunch.

Honestly, my hunch is that there are a lot of control battles going on between you and your daughter, and that not all of them necessarily need to be fought. If that’s the case, figuring out some places you can relax the iron fist and let her have some control over her own life might make things much better.

Anonymous wrote:I think you were overly harsh with consequences and she is about the point where she has zero to lose. Unless she has a diagnosis? Does she have a diagnosis?

I have a kid who is much harder than anything you’ve described. One thing that stuck out in your post is that your daughter has nothing to lose. You have consequences her to death and she can never get out of the rabbit hole so why bother to try. Now she’s just been set up to fail. I believe you have good intentions. But you should probably take a step back and figure out how to clean the scale for her.

One place I’d start is to figure out why she’s doing things like taking a kindle to school and why you thought it was such a good idea to make that your hill to die on.

Seems tight - not right

How much money does your DD get? Seems right to me. No phone, kindle is not hers either taking $5 without asking? What did she buy at cvs? Maybe necessities? Not sure OP portraits this truthful.

this is not what therapeutic boarding schools are for. You will just be putting her in with kids who do drugs, steal cars, etc. And a lot of them have had huge problems with abuse.

And a child you can't trust should not go to normal boarding school. If they don't make good choices at home, what makes you think they will make good choices when they have limited supervision?

I think you were overly harsh with consequences and she is about the point where she has zero to lose. Unless she has a diagnosis? Does she have a diagnosis?

For a mantra, what about something funny that can help calm you down? If I were in your situation, something like "only five years left" might make me chill out a little, but obviously isn't for everyone. Think about something that can lend some humor to the situation.

As for the consequence you asked about, in this circumstance of running up the $101 lunch bill without permission, I would send her with a very basic, low-cost lunch every day until that debt is paid off. When she complains, you can calmly remind her that you've had to cut back on your grocery bill to pay off her debts so this is the natural consequence of that action. Something like peanut butter and jelly or cheese sandwiches (obviously you need to make sure her nutritional needs are being met over the course of the day, but you do NOT have to cater to her preferences; buy whatever is on sale to cut back). It's important to be calm though, not mean, when you say this. You could ask therapist to help you role-play you staying calm when your teen starts doing some of this stuff.

This seems to be beyond typical teens stuff and perhaps a second opinion of treatment options (including the boarding school option you mentioned) from a new therapist could be useful. I'm sorry your dealing with this, OP!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP boarding school may not be such a bad idea but I cannot believe you can't afford a $101 food bill if you can afford the $60k it costs to board.

You need to stop yourself before you even start being mean, if you want any hope of a future relationship with your child.

Its not personal, her behavior, its normal and its a search for independence. Let more go and it will be easier for everyone.

No. Stealing is most definitely not normal, especially not at 13. And stealing - and using - her mother’s debit card is illegal. There is something serious going on here and trying to portray this child’s issues as normal gaslights the OP’s concerns and most importantly doesn’t get her child the help that she so clearly needs.

Fuxk you that is not the right term to be throwing around here. I am not an emotional abuser and you are clearly a bit of an idiot.. I think this kid is seeking attention and that, however it manifests itself is 100% NORMAL.

agree with this, OP, her behavior is normal but she is in a hard stage. Sending her away is not the answer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What consequences do you give her when she does something like run up a $101 lunch bill?

She already doesn't have a cellphone. She doesn't seem to care when she loses anything. I'm not sure what the consequences can really be? We told her her chore money would go to paying it off but she's so deeply in debt from all the other things like taking my debit card to cvs and buying things, going through my wallet and taking $5 and lying about it, taking the case off her kindle and taking it to school without permission and dropping the screen so we told her she had to pay to get it fixed and wouldn't be able to use it again...

Open to other suggestions because she doesn't have screens and she's already doing chores without pay.

ADHD?

Lots of good advice already that I agree with!

Op- how is she doing socially? Friends?

And like a pp I find it helpful to repeat “I’m the grown up” and remind myself that when I get upset, I give her power. It’s hard (we dealt with ODD) . I hope things improve soon!

Go to empoweringparents.com, you can just buy the downloads or also get access to a coach

And at pepparentonline.org there are videos and an option for personal coaching for $95 an hour

Celebratecalm.com is great too

Not much is free on these sites but all of them have been worth it for us.