You obviously have issues. When I adopted my child, internationally (see, your biases are not always correct), the country DID have orphanages full of babies who had been left in public by their families. The families did so for social and economic reasons. They were UNKNOWN.

Sorry that YOU were traumatized somewhere along the way. But the people I met in my adoption journey were not RICH or greedy, they cared deeply about ensuring that these children got safe, loving homes. I saw that happen over and over again.

(Note: private adoptions can be very shady, I agree. Particularly those in poor parts of South America. I encourage all potential adoptive parents to work with ESTABLISHED adoption agencies rather than private attorneys.)

Anonymous wrote:Adoption is not trauma.

Trauma (e.g., death of, or neglect or abuse by, a parent) usually precedes adoption.

Adoption--when it works well--is the child getting a second chance to grow into adulthood within a loving family headed up by healthy parents.

I am not saying it is not traumatic for a developing human to have to start over with a new family, but the adoptive family did not cause the trauma. They are part of the solution.

No. Most families who adopt infants create the trauma by creating the insanely profitable market for infant adoptions. You are deluding yourself by thinking that there are orphanages filled with healthy infants waiting for second chances because they have parents who don’t want to parent them. That’s not how it works in domestic infant adoption.

Adoption counselors coerce vulnerable women into believing that they best way they can love their babies is to give them to a wealthier family to raise. They teach young mothers that wanting to parent when you are poor or sick or lack a lot of family support is sefish. The industry CREATES trauma, trauma that can last generations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. My mother actually adopted a family friend's older child out of foster care recently and foster to adopt would be our preference. The issue with foster care is that our first child is still preschool age and we wouldn't want to go out of birth order. Plus we're in DC and my understanding is they have pretty much a 0% adoption rate/100% reunification rate. We'd be amenable to moving to another jurisdiction with more conducive foster to adopt policies, but wouldn't be able to do that for at least a few years and emotionally our family will need to be complete and able to move on from the hardship of infertility and failure by then.

What is the answer then? I would rather not have another child than "buy" a child or participate in shady adoption practices, but no, I'm absolutely not going to bring a traumatized, high needs older child into my preschooler's home. That is not safe or fair for anyone. Are we just out of luck then?

The goal always starts out as adoption but I know five families that have adopted from DC foster care once the goal changed--two took newborns, and three took older kids. The adoptions took a few years while DC saw if the parents were fulfilling their case plan and if there was a relative who was willing and able to take the kids. This was hard for the foster families, but they understood it going in and could understand DC's policy of encouraging kids to be raised somewhere in their families of origin.

Fostering while being open to adoption if the child needs it is great, and in DC you can say that you only want kids younger than yours (but expect to wait a little while, especially if you will only foster one kid and refuse to take kids with special needs--most of the kids who come into care are older, part of sibling sets, and/or have disabilities). But you're right that in DC you cannot foster assuming that you will adopt the first kid that's placed with you. Most kids are reunified.

Wanted to add that of course, you can refuse placement of a child with known, diagnosed special needs but many impairments will not show up until later. Considering that many children enter care because of parental addiction and mental health issues, there is a higher-than-usual chance that the child will have been exposed to or inherited these. That doesn't mean OP shouldn't do it, and certainly babies placed for private adoption face similar risk factors (I've definitely heard of moms choosing private adoption knowing that if they don't, the child will likely be taken into foster care) but it's something to know.

I adopted after a stillbirth went very wrong and ended up with a total hysterectomy. I have 2 older bio children. Adoption IS different. I was fine with the differences and potential struggles and am very happy with my family make up! We were only comfortable with infant (72 hours old) adoption so thats what we pursued. My advice is to find what you are comfortable with and see how much time/money/luck it would take to make it happen. Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:OP here. My mother actually adopted a family friend's older child out of foster care recently and foster to adopt would be our preference. The issue with foster care is that our first child is still preschool age and we wouldn't want to go out of birth order. Plus we're in DC and my understanding is they have pretty much a 0% adoption rate/100% reunification rate. We'd be amenable to moving to another jurisdiction with more conducive foster to adopt policies, but wouldn't be able to do that for at least a few years and emotionally our family will need to be complete and able to move on from the hardship of infertility and failure by then.

What is the answer then? I would rather not have another child than "buy" a child or participate in shady adoption practices, but no, I'm absolutely not going to bring a traumatized, high needs older child into my preschooler's home. That is not safe or fair for anyone. Are we just out of luck then?

The goal always starts out as adoption but I know five families that have adopted from DC foster care once the goal changed--two took newborns, and three took older kids. The adoptions took a few years while DC saw if the parents were fulfilling their case plan and if there was a relative who was willing and able to take the kids. This was hard for the foster families, but they understood it going in and could understand DC's policy of encouraging kids to be raised somewhere in their families of origin.

Fostering while being open to adoption if the child needs it is great, and in DC you can say that you only want kids younger than yours (but expect to wait a little while, especially if you will only foster one kid and refuse to take kids with special needs--most of the kids who come into care are older, part of sibling sets, and/or have disabilities). But you're right that in DC you cannot foster assuming that you will adopt the first kid that's placed with you. Most kids are reunified.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had experience with this? We're about to throw in the towel on treatment and love the idea of adopting, but are scared about the details, especially since we have an older child to consider. Did you decide for or against adoption after infertility (especially secondary infertility)? Could you share your experiences either way?

Adoption is trauma. What do you love about the idea?

Adoption is not trauma. When a parent is unable to raise their children, for whatever reason that is, that is the trauma. Adoption does not cure that problem, but neither does it cause it. Adoption is a way for that child to have a family (which every child deserves), despite the trauma that occurred prior to the adoption.

Most domestic I can’t adoption is not a case of people being unable to parent their child. It is a high demand market filled with infertile couples and a high profit industry who create product by co vi ding oeople that they are not ready or able to parent die to circumstances that are 100% fixable or temporary (-he, lack of health insurance, lack of funds, lack of community support). These are reasons to HELP mothers, not remove their babies from them. Removing healthy babaies from healthy parents for economic reasons or lack of temporary support IS trauma. Trauma created by a hugely profitable market for babies.

Adopting from foster care is very different. OP, are you interested in fostering or adopting older or high needs children who have no parents?

You have no idea why any particular parent chooses adoption. I met my child’s birth mother and it was not an economic decision. Pro-choice includes allowing women the option to give birth and decide that she is not able to parent that child. And yes, I fully agree that parents who want to parent their children but feel they cannot due to economic stress need financial support rather than adoption. Just - don’t paint it all with one broad brush.

+1, I am close to my child's maternal family. I know all the details. Its not as simple always as economics.

OP, it is very hard to do an ethical adoption. A good portion of adoptions could be considered questionable. And, there are many that are very shady. Its up to you to make it an ethical adoption and be prepared to walk away if you see red flags (we did twice). You need to verify everything said from the birthparents.

Regardless of how you adopt, you need to be prepared for the worst. Even if a child appears healthy, they may have special needs that come out later. Early on we spent a small fortune on therapies for our child. Friends have spent a fortune in later years with learning disabilities, therapies and other needs for their teens. However, this isn't exclusive to adoption but given there is a higher risks, especially if you go through the foster care system and you need to be prepared financially and with time. I had to quit my job to make it all work. I have no regrets and I'd do it all over again but that's not for everyone. My child appeared "healthy".

OP we adopted our one and only through Adoptions Together. They are a non profit agency in MD and VA. We paid just over $20,000 for a healthy infant, some of this is income based and our income was $140,000 at the time. She was a product of a sexual assault per the paperwork. There was no profit and no " baby selling" she has a family that loves her when her bio Mom couldn't.
Ignore the naysayers on here and do what's right for you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had experience with this? We're about to throw in the towel on treatment and love the idea of adopting, but are scared about the details, especially since we have an older child to consider. Did you decide for or against adoption after infertility (especially secondary infertility)? Could you share your experiences either way?

Adoption is trauma. What do you love about the idea?

Adoption is not trauma. When a parent is unable to raise their children, for whatever reason that is, that is the trauma. Adoption does not cure that problem, but neither does it cause it. Adoption is a way for that child to have a family (which every child deserves), despite the trauma that occurred prior to the adoption.

Most domestic I can’t adoption is not a case of people being unable to parent their child. It is a high demand market filled with infertile couples and a high profit industry who create product by co vi ding oeople that they are not ready or able to parent die to circumstances that are 100% fixable or temporary (-he, lack of health insurance, lack of funds, lack of community support). These are reasons to HELP mothers, not remove their babies from them. Removing healthy babaies from healthy parents for economic reasons or lack of temporary support IS trauma. Trauma created by a hugely profitable market for babies.

Adopting from foster care is very different. OP, are you interested in fostering or adopting older or high needs children who have no parents?

You have no idea why any particular parent chooses adoption. I met my child’s birth mother and it was not an economic decision. Pro-choice includes allowing women the option to give birth and decide that she is not able to parent that child. And yes, I fully agree that parents who want to parent their children but feel they cannot due to economic stress need financial support rather than adoption. Just - don’t paint it all with one broad brush.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you, immediate PP. Yes, I know 2:56 is well intentioned and I DO try to focus on the blessings we have and how lucky we were to have our first when it turns out that was kind of a miracle in itself. But no, our family doesn't feel complete, which is why we've done years of IVF and are considering adoption. Maybe it never will, but hopefully we'll be able to put the pain and grief behind us. To do so, we can't be actively trying to expand our family via fertility treatments OR adoption. If you've been through infertility, you probably understand where I'm coming from. Moving on means letting go.

PP here. Good luck, OP. I am both an adoptee and an adoptive parent (and a parent to bio children also). I wish you well in your journey.

Adoption is not trauma.

Trauma (e.g., death of, or neglect or abuse by, a parent) usually precedes adoption.

Adoption--when it works well--is the child getting a second chance to grow into adulthood within a loving family headed up by healthy parents.

I am not saying it is not traumatic for a developing human to have to start over with a new family, but the adoptive family did not cause the trauma. They are part of the solution.

OP here. Thank you, immediate PP. Yes, I know 2:56 is well intentioned and I DO try to focus on the blessings we have and how lucky we were to have our first when it turns out that was kind of a miracle in itself. But no, our family doesn't feel complete, which is why we've done years of IVF and are considering adoption. Maybe it never will, but hopefully we'll be able to put the pain and grief behind us. To do so, we can't be actively trying to expand our family via fertility treatments OR adoption. If you've been through infertility, you probably understand where I'm coming from. Moving on means letting go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. My mother actually adopted a family friend's older child out of foster care recently and foster to adopt would be our preference. The issue with foster care is that our first child is still preschool age and we wouldn't want to go out of birth order. Plus we're in DC and my understanding is they have pretty much a 0% adoption rate/100% reunification rate. We'd be amenable to moving to another jurisdiction with more conducive foster to adopt policies, but wouldn't be able to do that for at least a few years and emotionally our family will need to be complete and able to move on from the hardship of infertility and failure by then.

What is the answer then? I would rather not have another child than "buy" a child or participate in shady adoption practices, but no, I'm absolutely not going to bring a traumatized, high needs older child into my preschooler's home. That is not safe or fair for anyone. Are we just out of luck then?

It may help you to work on reframing the amount of luck you currently have, assuming you have a happy marriage. You have a complete family right now, including a biological child. Your family may grow someday, but only you have defined it as incomplete. Do you think your child thinks it is incomplete? I have a hunch it feels complete to him/her. You have the choice to define it as complete NOW whether or not it may grow in the future. You may find that you can appreciate the now of parenting much more if you choose to focus on what you have rather than what you don't. These years pass so quickly; your child is already a preschooler. What if all you had was a few more years together? How can you invite yourself to feel complete and whole with what you have?

And thank you for being open to considering expanding your family in ways other than infant adoption.

NP here. PP, I know you meant well, but would you honestly post this same thing in the Infertility forum? I don't think you get to tell another woman her family is complete if she doesn't feel it is. Presumably most families with multiple kids felt incomplete after the first or else they wouldn't have had the rest. I don't think it's an uncommon thing and is probably particularly magnified because reproductive control over family size is out of her hands barring additional means.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. My mother actually adopted a family friend's older child out of foster care recently and foster to adopt would be our preference. The issue with foster care is that our first child is still preschool age and we wouldn't want to go out of birth order. Plus we're in DC and my understanding is they have pretty much a 0% adoption rate/100% reunification rate. We'd be amenable to moving to another jurisdiction with more conducive foster to adopt policies, but wouldn't be able to do that for at least a few years and emotionally our family will need to be complete and able to move on from the hardship of infertility and failure by then.

What is the answer then? I would rather not have another child than "buy" a child or participate in shady adoption practices, but no, I'm absolutely not going to bring a traumatized, high needs older child into my preschooler's home. That is not safe or fair for anyone. Are we just out of luck then?

It may help you to work on reframing the amount of luck you currently have, assuming you have a happy marriage. You have a complete family right now, including a biological child. Your family may grow someday, but only you have defined it as incomplete. Do you think your child thinks it is incomplete? I have a hunch it feels complete to him/her. You have the choice to define it as complete NOW whether or not it may grow in the future. You may find that you can appreciate the now of parenting much more if you choose to focus on what you have rather than what you don't. These years pass so quickly; your child is already a preschooler. What if all you had was a few more years together? How can you invite yourself to feel complete and whole with what you have?

And thank you for being open to considering expanding your family in ways other than infant adoption.

you and***

Anonymous wrote:OP here. My mother actually adopted a family friend's older child out of foster care recently and foster to adopt would be our preference. The issue with foster care is that our first child is still preschool age and we wouldn't want to go out of birth order. Plus we're in DC and my understanding is they have pretty much a 0% adoption rate/100% reunification rate. We'd be amenable to moving to another jurisdiction with more conducive foster to adopt policies, but wouldn't be able to do that for at least a few years and emotionally our family will need to be complete and able to move on from the hardship of infertility and failure by then.

What is the answer then? I would rather not have another child than "buy" a child or participate in shady adoption practices, but no, I'm absolutely not going to bring a traumatized, high needs older child into my preschooler's home. That is not safe or fair for anyone. Are we just out of luck then?

OP - I'm sorry for the loss of the second biological child your family planned for, I know it can be extremely difficult. First, I think it's important to say that whether you bring an older child or a 1-2 year old (so they would be younger than yours), you WILL be bringing a traumatized child into your home. If that is not something you feel comfortable sitting with and doing some hard work around than it may not be a good fit. Whether the child has high needs or not is dependent on a lot of things, but yes, any child even if in the chance you find a foster to adopt newborn, there is trauma in removal from a birth family and potentially in the prenatal period. In many instances, some of this trauma can be healed in building a healthy attachment with the adoptive family with a relationship that is flexible, without expectation, and understanding of how the child's experience impacts them and will continue to impact them. But you must go in with your eyes open to the child's experience and be open to how that trauma even at a very young age impacts them if you want that healing to occur.

If you feel like you are open to the above, a few things:

I believe it is possible to adopt from foster care outside your jurisdiction, here is some info and I would see if you can find some foster to adopt parenting boards that might have more info as I don't have direct experience with this and what I found is vague. https://www.acf.hhs.gov/cb/faq/adoption10

I do have experience with adoption from foster care and while it can be very difficult, it can also be extremely wonderful (and often those things at the same time!). I think what you are seeing from some posters is just the importance in recognizing how the experience of adoption is not about "saving" a child or giving them the family they always needed. The child you adopt has a family. The fact that their family cannot care for them is a huge trauma (among other traumas they've usually experienced). Coming into an adoption like this with a perspective that is not at all savior like, or expecting the child to be grateful, and having done your homework on how to specifically bond and support kids with these experiences is essential and will go a long way. I'm not implying that you WERE coming from this perspective, just sharing my perspective on how important humility is in this process. You have had your own loss, and I encourage you to process that loss as much as you can prior to this process because it can sometimes get a bit mixed up in the child's experience and adoption. That can make things hard on both of you.

You asked about first steps and while I completely understand feeling a sense of urgency, I would recommend trying to give yourself a couple months to take the first step of reading some books on entering this type of adoption, parenting children with these experiences, etc. And if possible, if you think it would be helpful potentially some therapy to process your own loss, even if it's only a few sessions. You are your potential child will both have experienced a lot of loss, the more healed you feel - the more you can help your child heal from theirs.

A great book to start that I used to always recommend to families in my previous work is The Connected Child - Karyn Purvis. It will talk more about after the child is in your home, but will give you a sense of how children might see the world and help you be a better parent when they arrive.

Good luck OP - I hope you are able to parent in a way that feels best for you.