Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 11:29     Subject: Re:Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
OK, y'all…..I am off for a little R&R of my own before I head over to my mother's place tomorrow.

Thanks for all your feedback. I'll post back tomorrow about the outcome of our meeting, just to close the loop.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 11:25     Subject: Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I almost wonder if there’s something like an occupational therapist who could teach her to do these activities? It certainly sounds like there is a disorder that lead your mom to not be able to complete these daily living activities, that your dad compensated for. OTs teach people how to accomplish tasks.

Yes, she has dependency disorder and depression (they are related.....when you are helpless, you don't feel good about yourself), and has seen psychiatrists on and off for decades. I have been told that hers is a very hard case.

But your idea about the OT is good. (The things she can't do - like work the TV - are so basic; is that what an OT would work with?)


An OT would absolutely help with the TV, putting the trash in the basket all of those minor tasks of everyday living.

OK, great. We will look into getting an OT, and I imagine when we meet with the staff tomorrow, they will have recommendations.

Thanks to you too.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 11:24     Subject: Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why do you think she isn’t showing signs of dementia?? She doesn’t know how to dial a phone and can’t figure out her shower and isn’t taking out her trash. She is 88. You guys are heartless. Why do you think your dad was worth the money but tour mom isn’t?

OP here, and do you really think we didn't have her tested years ago for her inability to figure out the remote control? We had her tested, and she was on the HIGH side of normal. Her most recent test was last month, before we moved her into the new apartment, and it was still high normal. We have been told that she has no indication of dementia. We even had a brain scan and THAT showed up as normal.

And it isn't that my dad was worth the money and my mom not. My dad TRULY was incapacitated. He was a prisoner in his own body, and it was heart-breaking. My mother is physically able, and it is ridiculous to put an able woman in an assisted living community because she says she can't work the TV remote.


Your mom probably spent most of her days holed up in her room at the assisted living place with your dad. She is now in a place that will allow her some social interaction with people going through the same life stage that she is. You might be surprised at how she will blossom when she starts to make some friends.

Hang in there, Op. This is an adjustment for her kids, too. Don't feel like you need to rush over there to "fix" things for you mom. You moved her there for good reasons and sometimes it just takes a little time for them to adjust.

Thanks. (I just responded to a couple of posters who called me clueless and unsympathetic. That isn't helpful.)

We have our plan in place now. My sister and I will discuss the matter with the staff tomorrow, and also tell them we are going to arrange to have an aide come in 3x a week for a few hours. Our hope is that the aide can encourage my mother to become more involved - they even have these great outings to dinner shows and stuff - and eventually she will be less needy.

Thanks again.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 11:20     Subject: Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I almost wonder if there’s something like an occupational therapist who could teach her to do these activities? It certainly sounds like there is a disorder that lead your mom to not be able to complete these daily living activities, that your dad compensated for. OTs teach people how to accomplish tasks.

Yes, she has dependency disorder and depression (they are related.....when you are helpless, you don't feel good about yourself), and has seen psychiatrists on and off for decades. I have been told that hers is a very hard case.

But your idea about the OT is good. (The things she can't do - like work the TV - are so basic; is that what an OT would work with?)


An OT would absolutely help with the TV, putting the trash in the basket all of those minor tasks of everyday living.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 11:20     Subject: Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:She is still settling in. Change is hard for a woman in her late 80's who has recently lost her husband. Her world has been upended.

She needs to stick it out, though. Soon she will make new friends and this new place will be her new normal. Can you possibly pay an aid to drop by and visit her during the day?

That is what we are discussing, trying to get my mom to agree to it. She has said she want full-time aides, but we are proposing that we "start" with part-time and see how it goes. She hasn't agreed to part-time yet.


Maybe you can call the independent living place and let the staff know that your mom is having some adjustment issues and could use a little encouragement to get involved in some of the activities/meet people. The staff usually have strategies to make new residents feel welcome.

Yes, that's an excellent idea. In fact, the reason I told my sister I'd come over tomorrow - and not this afternoon - is because we want to be there on a weekday where we can discuss the situation with the staff.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 11:18     Subject: Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
Anonymous wrote:WOW. Op and the rest of you are clueless and unsympathetic when it comes to elder care! Op - she is 88!! She probably needs the help and attention. She liked the other place. Move her back there. You are saying she has enough to last five years? That takes her to 93. She will probably die sooner if you leave her where she is.

I just said that her mother lived to be 97. What will we do when she is 93 and runs out of money? Just dump her onto Medicaid? Or would you propose I spend down the money I have saved for my old age, and then I go onto Medicaid?

As far as being unsympathetic, you sure are nervy. Both my sister and I have turned our lives upside down during this past year, and now we are alternating 3-day weekends, with phone calls 3x a day, took her ALL OVER to find the new apartment she would like, buy her everything she needs when she calls and then deliver it, order meals for her because she won't go to the dining room, while handling ALL the bills and mail and logistics that still remain after my father's death.

And the "other place" she liked is for disabled individuals. In fact, I don't even know that they would accept her. She was only there because my father needed assisted living.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 11:16     Subject: Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why do you think she isn’t showing signs of dementia?? She doesn’t know how to dial a phone and can’t figure out her shower and isn’t taking out her trash. She is 88. You guys are heartless. Why do you think your dad was worth the money but tour mom isn’t?

OP here, and do you really think we didn't have her tested years ago for her inability to figure out the remote control? We had her tested, and she was on the HIGH side of normal. Her most recent test was last month, before we moved her into the new apartment, and it was still high normal. We have been told that she has no indication of dementia. We even had a brain scan and THAT showed up as normal.

And it isn't that my dad was worth the money and my mom not. My dad TRULY was incapacitated. He was a prisoner in his own body, and it was heart-breaking. My mother is physically able, and it is ridiculous to put an able woman in an assisted living community because she says she can't work the TV remote.


Your mom probably spent most of her days holed up in her room at the assisted living place with your dad. She is now in a place that will allow her some social interaction with people going through the same life stage that she is. You might be surprised at how she will blossom when she starts to make some friends.

Hang in there, Op. This is an adjustment for her kids, too. Don't feel like you need to rush over there to "fix" things for you mom. You moved her there for good reasons and sometimes it just takes a little time for them to adjust.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 11:12     Subject: Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
^has
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 11:11     Subject: Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:She is still settling in. Change is hard for a woman in her late 80's who has recently lost her husband. Her world has been upended.

She needs to stick it out, though. Soon she will make new friends and this new place will be her new normal. Can you possibly pay an aid to drop by and visit her during the day?

That is what we are discussing, trying to get my mom to agree to it. She has said she want full-time aides, but we are proposing that we "start" with part-time and see how it goes. She hasn't agreed to part-time yet.


Maybe you can call the independent living place and let the staff know that your mom is having some adjustment issues and could use a little encouragement to get involved in some of the activities/meet people. The staff usually have strategies to make new residents feel welcome.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 11:10     Subject: Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
Anonymous wrote:Why do you think she isn’t showing signs of dementia?? She doesn’t know how to dial a phone and can’t figure out her shower and isn’t taking out her trash. She is 88. You guys are heartless. Why do you think your dad was worth the money but tour mom isn’t?

OP here, and do you really think we didn't have her tested years ago for her inability to figure out the remote control? We had her tested, and she was on the HIGH side of normal. Her most recent test was last month, before we moved her into the new apartment, and it was still high normal. We have been told that she has no indication of dementia. We even had a brain scan and THAT showed up as normal.

And it isn't that my dad was worth the money and my mom not. My dad TRULY was incapacitated. He was a prisoner in his own body, and it was heart-breaking. My mother is physically able, and it is ridiculous to put an able woman in an assisted living community because she says she can't work the TV remote.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 11:05     Subject: Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
Anonymous wrote:I was going to ask if you have Power of Attorney, and if not, point out that it's her money, and she can make the move if she so chooses. However, that would be an incredibly stupid comment to make, because a woman who can't change the channel on the TV (!!!) obviously can't organize a move.

I am going to be less charitable than others, and say that she has been manipulating you, your sister, and your father before you for years, and is a fairly terrible person. The fact that you and your sister are alternating 3-day weekends with her is an easy example of this, as is the fact that you are continually having this discussion. Come on, OP.

You are right, she's not going to change. The only person you can change here is yourself - you need to decide that you won't be manipulated anymore. That can take many forms, from living your own life, not hostage to an able woman who just refuses to care for herself. If she wants to life in squalor, that's her choice, and you don't feel guilty about it. If she wants to watch a test pattern because she can't use the remote, you don't hire someone to do it for her, and you don't give it a second thought.

You have had experience caring for someone who truly is incapacitated, so you know how exhausting it is. It's not something you (or anyone) should feel compelled to do.

Remember, the only behavior you can change here is yours.

All you say is correct, and I'm trying. And yes, we do have POA, but there is no way my mother could arrange the move back by herself regardless. Plus, I'm not sure she really wants to go. It's just her way of trying to "drum up" more for the smallest of things.

Now I see why my dad gave into her all these years. She makes life really horrendous for the person who refuses to do these little things. It is manipulation, obviously, but I now can see that my father gave in to save his own sanity. Couldn't have been easy.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 11:05     Subject: Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
Why do you think she isn’t showing signs of dementia?? She doesn’t know how to dial a phone and can’t figure out her shower and isn’t taking out her trash. She is 88. You guys are heartless. Why do you think your dad was worth the money but tour mom isn’t?
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 11:00     Subject: Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
WOW. Op and the rest of you are clueless and unsympathetic when it comes to elder care! Op - she is 88!! She probably needs the help and attention. She liked the other place. Move her back there. You are saying she has enough to last five years? That takes her to 93. She will probably die sooner if you leave her where she is.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 10:56     Subject: Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
Whose money is it that is paying for the living arrangements? If you and your sister are paying for it - then your say. If it is your parents money, then it is hers to spend as she wishes.

Did your mother want to move out and live independently? At 88, she probably just wants peace and familiarity and comfort - not be be put out on her own for the first time in her life and told to sink or swim. You guys did what you wanted, not what your mother wanted - so you can't really be angry for her not being happy about something she didn't want in the first place.

Your mother is not able minded if she can't throw out garbage, get the right temperature in the shower or turn on the TV. Regardless of the reason for her severe deficits - she has them.


There are many assisted living places that don't cost $12000 a month. If she wants to live with other people and have people to help her and she is paying for it with her money - then that is where she should be.

Anonymous
Post 09/15/2019 10:50     Subject: Re:Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death
OP here. It DOES seem definite, based on feedback, that we should NOT move her back to the assisted living apartment. I agree that it is totally overkill and will be enforcing this idea she has that he is helpless. That will just add to her depression. Plus, the assisted living residents (and remember, I've come to know them) are all quite debilitated - about half of them with memory issues - and I can't imagine that would be uplifting to a physically competent individual.

(My sister is very angry as well. We just paid $1300 to move my mother to the new apartment, and my sister took two additional days off from work to help set the place up. I arrived a few days later, after shopping for all her new needs, and completed the job, including hanging up pictures.)