Here's the thing I struggle with understanding, and I mean this with kindness as my life's been touched by suicide too. Do you think it's possible for someone to just kind of lose control/snap and their body goes into autopilot and does it? Like as easily as I can lose my temper and raise my voice with my kids after a tough day/week. Or do you think it's always more intentional/thought-out?

I worked in a similar role at another well regarded university with a very competitive and high achieving population. While in that role I felt suicidal for the first time. The responsibility is massive, the expectations are unrealistic, you are caught between parents, students, faculty, staff and administration. The academic environment as a whole is not healthy. There is constant pressure on students and faculty to produce, over achieve, be better than everyone else is just not healthy. Most schools have a tragic year at some point, that is mostly fluke. Not all suicide is preventable. I think my school was pretty supportive overall but the responsibilities of my role, the barriers I was up against and the devastating toll it took on my mental health and physical health made me walk away. No role or status or salary is worth losing yourselves. I am still recovering my health and putting my life back together after what that role took from me.

There needs to be much better clarity as to what the role of an institution is in providing health care. And then it needs to be funded to meet that scope and expectation.

I have met Dr Eells at ACHA conferences although I do not know him. Like most who end up dying from suicide there were a multitude of factors likely at play and more than likely a underlying mental illness. However from my experience and that of my colleagues, these roles are extremely high stress and soul crushing.

My condolences to his colleagues, his team, his family and the students he worked with. This will be hard time for all of them.

Anonymous wrote:So tragic.

I’m not affiliated with UPenn, don’t have a kid who wants to go there or a true peer school (looking at SLACs) and generally do not GAF about it at all. But, it’s probably not fair to say UPenn’s culture killed him. A toxic environment can make underlying problems worse. But people don’t usually go from completely mentally healthy to suicide in 6 months because their job is miserable. Mentally healthy people find a new job. Something else was almost certainly going on. And high functions depression is a thing.

Also, I would hope no one was trying to gloat about a suicide because they have something against UPenn and it makes UPenn look bad. I’m sure no one on here would do that.

— a suicide survivor

NP. I applaud your empathy and your call for sensitivity at this sad time. Please continue to experience sunshine and happiness in every day of your life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember reading in 2016?? maybe when they had the highest amount of suicides per 100 kids in a college. Then the track star jumped off the parking garage, the one girl purchased cyanide and it made a lot of news for a few months. The students set up a huge group and demanded the schools take mental health more seriously. I wonder what became of that.

I don't have a child in an ivy or want one there, but I have heard through gossip, CC, here, etc... that Penn and Cornell are the hardest once you get in there. That competition and grading is cut-throat. Harvard, Yale, Brown, etc... are more laxed on grading and competition and more about learning. I mean aren't these kids some of the smartest in the world? Didn't they work their asses off to just get to the school. I can't imagine the roller coaster of emotions. I can't imagine what this man had on his plate every single day. Very sad.

This is exactly what my DS did not like about the ivies and why he did not apply. He had very high stats and strong service oriented ECs, but he did not want the "cut throat" environment which he felt would be a poor fit for his personality. We tried to get him to apply, but he would have nothing of it. Amazing insight for a teen. He ended up in another top 20 with the culture he felt was more his speed.

This is not the thread to brag about your kid’s “very high stats” or “amazing insight” ffs

Anonymous wrote:How terrible.

My nephew was at UPenn and transferred after the first year. He's at another ivy and much happier now. He cautioned my DD from seriously looking there. He never gave any specific reasons other than "it's depressing" and it "sucks the fun out of everything".

My niece is there after not getting into her top choices (of course who can complain about matriculating to an Ivy but there was trepidation). She is a junior and LOVES it! She has found a nice group of friends, and has a good social life, spent the summer in NYC at a paid internship with substantive work. She was a smart but quiet kid in high school who has really blossomed. To each his own.

Columbia and Penn just seem to have a lot of suicides. I don't know exact numbers and maybe they just make more news, but it is scary. I wonder if it has anything to do with the make-up of a more urban area as well, on top of Ivy.

Anonymous wrote:That work is very draining. He was without his support network. So sad that professionals can't see the depth of their own suffering or follow their own advice. So common though, among physicians as well for example.

In his desperation, he probably did not consider how this impulsive act might impact his patients. But he was in no position to care for someone else . May he rest in peace, and may this change the culture at Penn (and among people who are driven to seek external validation of their worth...DCUM)

Very well said.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand blaming the school. Seems ridiculous.

Obviously there are other factors. But I live near Penn and my neighborhood group has a discussion of the article, with multiple people commenting about how they became suicidal while working there.

Yikes

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand blaming the school. Seems ridiculous.

Obviously there are other factors. But I live near Penn and my neighborhood group has a discussion of the article, with multiple people commenting about how they became suicidal while working there.

After an incident, there are always a group of people who'll pop up to confirm how terrible a place is. I'm not saying it is not worth considering, but I'd like to see stats on Penn faculty suicides versus other schools before I start heading down that rabbit hole.

Anonymous wrote:I think all schools can feel isolating. My nephews all went to Penn (one still there) and they had wonderful experiences. But in any school, some can feel completely left out of community. In a competitive school, they can overestimate the importance of grades in the grand scheme of their life.

This person obviously had his own issues, missing family and feeling pressured in the job. We need to understand the signals people are sending about their mental health is what I take away from this. Very sad.

This. I'm a clinical psychologist, and certainly know psychologists and mental health professionals who've had their own struggles and stressors. We're human, and I only hope this encourages mental health clinicians struggling to reach out. My heart goes out to his wife and three kids.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand blaming the school. Seems ridiculous.

+1

A tragedy, but the school's not at fault.

I think all schools can feel isolating. My nephews all went to Penn (one still there) and they had wonderful experiences. But in any school, some can feel completely left out of community. In a competitive school, they can overestimate the importance of grades in the grand scheme of their life.

This person obviously had his own issues, missing family and feeling pressured in the job. We need to understand the signals people are sending about their mental health is what I take away from this. Very sad.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand blaming the school. Seems ridiculous.

Obviously there are other factors. But I live near Penn and my neighborhood group has a discussion of the article, with multiple people commenting about how they became suicidal while working there.

Anonymous wrote:I remember reading in 2016?? maybe when they had the highest amount of suicides per 100 kids in a college. Then the track star jumped off the parking garage, the one girl purchased cyanide and it made a lot of news for a few months. The students set up a huge group and demanded the schools take mental health more seriously. I wonder what became of that.

I don't have a child in an ivy or want one there, but I have heard through gossip, CC, here, etc... that Penn and Cornell are the hardest once you get in there. That competition and grading is cut-throat. Harvard, Yale, Brown, etc... are more laxed on grading and competition and more about learning. I mean aren't these kids some of the smartest in the world? Didn't they work their asses off to just get to the school. I can't imagine the roller coaster of emotions. I can't imagine what this man had on his plate every single day. Very sad.

This is exactly what my DS did not like about the ivies and why he did not apply. He had very high stats and strong service oriented ECs, but he did not want the "cut throat" environment which he felt would be a poor fit for his personality. We tried to get him to apply, but he would have nothing of it. Amazing insight for a teen. He ended up in another top 20 with the culture he felt was more his speed.

I remember reading in 2016?? maybe when they had the highest amount of suicides per 100 kids in a college. Then the track star jumped off the parking garage, the one girl purchased cyanide and it made a lot of news for a few months. The students set up a huge group and demanded the schools take mental health more seriously. I wonder what became of that.

I don't have a child in an ivy or want one there, but I have heard through gossip, CC, here, etc... that Penn and Cornell are the hardest once you get in there. That competition and grading is cut-throat. Harvard, Yale, Brown, etc... are more laxed on grading and competition and more about learning. I mean aren't these kids some of the smartest in the world? Didn't they work their asses off to just get to the school. I can't imagine the roller coaster of emotions. I can't imagine what this man had on his plate every single day. Very sad.