Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I get that. But my question is this - Who at the local level is willing to fight this? I don't want a police state, but the insistence that our own protective forces cannot do this basic, essential job is maddening.

Add to that the hype around sanctuary cities, and this situation further polarizes us. The idea of sanctuary has been around forever but it started in the 80s as a way to protect refugees. At this point, it's been "extended" to protect anyone who's here illegally.

I understand stereotyping. I know that not all illegal immigrants are criminals. But if some a**hole is pulled over for drunk driving and is arrested for almost killing someone, what's the lag time between the the LEA arrest and the ICE contact? And at this point, how does LEA determine if ICE is necessary?

It's a basic, essential job that is not the job of county police.

Checking someone's fingerprints isnt some long hard task. Give it a break. No one is saying sanctuary counties like MoCo need to participate in raids but running a computer check and picking up the phone isnt some huge drain on resources. Dont they help other police jurisdictions or do they shrug their shoulders if/when the FBI or others want to partner? This is a bs excuse that its not their jobs to help ICE. At least politicians should have the courage to admit they want to make it harder to deport people here illegally so that they can continue to collect CASA donation checks.

Immigration laws are federal laws. Montgomery County police are county police. This is basic federalism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I get that. But my question is this - Who at the local level is willing to fight this? I don't want a police state, but the insistence that our own protective forces cannot do this basic, essential job is maddening.

Add to that the hype around sanctuary cities, and this situation further polarizes us. The idea of sanctuary has been around forever but it started in the 80s as a way to protect refugees. At this point, it's been "extended" to protect anyone who's here illegally.

I understand stereotyping. I know that not all illegal immigrants are criminals. But if some a**hole is pulled over for drunk driving and is arrested for almost killing someone, what's the lag time between the the LEA arrest and the ICE contact? And at this point, how does LEA determine if ICE is necessary?

It's a basic, essential job that is not the job of county police.

Checking someone's fingerprints isnt some long hard task. Give it a break. No one is saying sanctuary counties like MoCo need to participate in raids but running a computer check and picking up the phone isnt some huge drain on resources. Dont they help other police jurisdictions or do they shrug their shoulders if/when the FBI or others want to partner? This is a bs excuse that its not their jobs to help ICE. At least politicians should have the courage to admit they want to make it harder to deport people here illegally so that they can continue to collect CASA donation checks.

Immigration laws are federal laws. Montgomery County police are county police. This is basic federalism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But again, it's not the job of local law enforcement to find out the status. MoCo police didn't stop and ask for status during Obama administration, and they don't today. I don't see what's changed in that regard.

If MoCo didn't contact ICE at all when they were about to release a violent criminal, then yes, that would be wrong and upsetting, but that is not what happened here.

Also, are you saying that MoCo isn't submitting fingerprints of violent criminals to the FBI database? If they are not, then yes, they would be going against the law, but if they are, then what exactly is MoCo doing wrong?

As you noted in your post, immigration activists were even against Obama's administration on deporting even most violent criminals. Again, I don't see what has changed?

Are you just annoyed that Elrich put out a release that stated that local law enforcement won't be doing the fed's job of asking for legal status and rounding up illegals? It's been that way for a while, so again, not sure why Elrich's press release has you so upset. And btw, I did not vote for Elrich.

I get that. But my question is this - Who at the local level is willing to fight this? I don't want a police state, but the insistence that our own protective forces cannot do this basic, essential job is maddening.

Add to that the hype around sanctuary cities, and this situation further polarizes us. The idea of sanctuary has been around forever but it started in the 80s as a way to protect refugees. At this point, it's been "extended" to protect anyone who's here illegally.

I understand stereotyping. I know that not all illegal immigrants are criminals. But if some a**hole is pulled over for drunk driving and is arrested for almost killing someone, what's the lag time between the the LEA arrest and the ICE contact? And at this point, how does LEA determine if ICE is necessary?

the law - https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-happens-when-undocumented-immigrant-is-caught.html

After you have been arrested, the LEA may decide to contact ICE if it believes that you are an undocumented immigrant. Or, ICE may contact the LEA if it wants to interview you regarding your immigration status, which most often happens when jails input detainee information into databases shared with ICE.

In such cases, ICE will file what's called a "detainer." This means that ICE cannot get to you immediately, but is asking the police or jail to hold you for an additional amount of time so that ICE can interview you at a later time to determine whether or not to place you into removal (deportation) proceedings.

Whether or not the LEA complies with the detainer can vary widely depending on the agency, since compliance is voluntary.

Under the law, the maximum amount of additional time that someone can be held on ICE's behalf is 48 hours. If ICE does not take custody of you within those 48 hours, the law says you must be released.

So it's a big, fat guessing game that's also time-dependent.

inefficient and potentially dangerous

Why don't people question these practices? Elrich is a politician who's out for himself, as are most politicians.

unbelievable

You don't want a police state but you want someone to police illegal immigrants. That would be the job of the feds, not local law enforcement. You want to use local taxpayer money to do the fed's job of rounding up illegal immigrants. That's not how it works. If you want to pay more in federal taxes to hire more ICE agents to round up illegal immigrants, then that's what you should shoot for.

I grew up in LA, home of a large illegal immigrant population, larger than MoCo. The jails in LA are overcrowded (in part thanks to the three strikes law passed by then R governor Pete Wilson), and quite frankly, I wouldn't want local law enforcement to use up valuable space in the jails to house non violent illegal immigrants. IMO, priority should always be violent people, no matter the status.

I am not a legal professional, but from what I understand, if you are arrested for xyz and given bail, then local law enforcement cannot hold you unless there is an active warrant for your arrest and a request to hold the person is made by another law enforcement agency. That is not what happened here. If the person is deemed a flight risk or risk to public safety then the judge would not grant bail.

This rape story is tragic, as are all rape stories. But as a PP who's DH is in law enforcement stated, this story made the headlines because of the legal status of the rapist.

There was another news story about two illegal immigrant HS boys who allegedly raped a girl in the school bathroom in MoCo. The charges were ultimately dropped against the boys, and now there is a deportation order against them. But that part didn't make the national news headlines.

I knew of their deportation even though I'm not in the county any longer. It made news. But by that point, it was too late. They took advantage of the girl. (I know the story very well.)

but again - too late

I say this all the time - What if any of those children were YOUR kids? Would you still be preaching the same sermon?

Again, flight risk? If the police don't contact ICE, there's no point in discussing any of this as far as I'm concerned. And if they do and ICE isn't timely, it's still a non-issue that may put others at risk.

So you can spout off laws and guidelines all you want. At this point, something has to change. Why bother having ICE if they're not called or if they refuse to do their jobs? And why tie down the police for that matter?

It's a ridiculous circus act no matter how you look at it.

I honestly don't know what it is you want MoCo to do. You want them to do ICE's job? MoCo contacted ICE. And look, here is MoCo again, contacting ICE.

https://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2019/08/montgomery-county-man-accused-of-abusing-boy-and-girl/

But guess what.. our system let him post an immigration bond, and he was released. Is that MoCo's fault? Is this Obama's fault, too? What is it you want to happen in the real world? If you want laws changed, then push for it. But your post seems to blame MoCo because they are not going after illegal immigrants who don't commit violent crime. Again, that's not their job. That's ICE's job, so maybe blame them. Local law enforcement protects the local public. An illegal immigrant an and of itself is not a threat to the local public. Maybe we need to find some precogs and have a Minority Report. But as we saw, even that has flaws.


If my child were a victim of rape, I'd be furious. I don't think I'd be any less or more furious if the perp was legal or not, or white and rich, or not. That white ex-Stanford sexual assaulter got off with a slap on the wrist. That would make me furious. Did conservative news media/pundits get outraged over this? Did Trump rail at the injustice like he did about the NY Central Park Five being freed after the court system let them go?

from my response above: Why bother having ICE if they're not called or if they refuse to do their jobs? And why tie down the police for that matter?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I get that. But my question is this - Who at the local level is willing to fight this? I don't want a police state, but the insistence that our own protective forces cannot do this basic, essential job is maddening.

Add to that the hype around sanctuary cities, and this situation further polarizes us. The idea of sanctuary has been around forever but it started in the 80s as a way to protect refugees. At this point, it's been "extended" to protect anyone who's here illegally.

I understand stereotyping. I know that not all illegal immigrants are criminals. But if some a**hole is pulled over for drunk driving and is arrested for almost killing someone, what's the lag time between the the LEA arrest and the ICE contact? And at this point, how does LEA determine if ICE is necessary?

It's a basic, essential job that is not the job of county police.

Checking someone's fingerprints isnt some long hard task. Give it a break. No one is saying sanctuary counties like MoCo need to participate in raids but running a computer check and picking up the phone isnt some huge drain on resources. Dont they help other police jurisdictions or do they shrug their shoulders if/when the FBI or others want to partner? This is a bs excuse that its not their jobs to help ICE. At least politicians should have the courage to admit they want to make it harder to deport people here illegally so that they can continue to collect CASA donation checks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I get that. But my question is this - Who at the local level is willing to fight this? I don't want a police state, but the insistence that our own protective forces cannot do this basic, essential job is maddening.

Add to that the hype around sanctuary cities, and this situation further polarizes us. The idea of sanctuary has been around forever but it started in the 80s as a way to protect refugees. At this point, it's been "extended" to protect anyone who's here illegally.

I understand stereotyping. I know that not all illegal immigrants are criminals. But if some a**hole is pulled over for drunk driving and is arrested for almost killing someone, what's the lag time between the the LEA arrest and the ICE contact? And at this point, how does LEA determine if ICE is necessary?

It's a basic, essential job that is not the job of county police.

Checking someone's fingerprints isnt some long hard task. Give it a break. No one is saying sanctuary counties like MoCo need to participate in raids but running a computer check and picking up the phone isnt some huge drain on resources. Dont they help other police jurisdictions or do they shrug their shoulders if/when the FBI or others want to partner? This is a bs excuse that its not their jobs to help ICE. At least politicians should have the courage to admit they want to make it harder to deport people here illegally so that they can continue to collect CASA donation checks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I get that. But my question is this - Who at the local level is willing to fight this? I don't want a police state, but the insistence that our own protective forces cannot do this basic, essential job is maddening.

Add to that the hype around sanctuary cities, and this situation further polarizes us. The idea of sanctuary has been around forever but it started in the 80s as a way to protect refugees. At this point, it's been "extended" to protect anyone who's here illegally.

I understand stereotyping. I know that not all illegal immigrants are criminals. But if some a**hole is pulled over for drunk driving and is arrested for almost killing someone, what's the lag time between the the LEA arrest and the ICE contact? And at this point, how does LEA determine if ICE is necessary?

It's a basic, essential job that is not the job of county police.

Anonymous wrote:


I get that. But my question is this - Who at the local level is willing to fight this? I don't want a police state, but the insistence that our own protective forces cannot do this basic, essential job is maddening.

Add to that the hype around sanctuary cities, and this situation further polarizes us. The idea of sanctuary has been around forever but it started in the 80s as a way to protect refugees. At this point, it's been "extended" to protect anyone who's here illegally.

I understand stereotyping. I know that not all illegal immigrants are criminals. But if some a**hole is pulled over for drunk driving and is arrested for almost killing someone, what's the lag time between the the LEA arrest and the ICE contact? And at this point, how does LEA determine if ICE is necessary?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But again, it's not the job of local law enforcement to find out the status. MoCo police didn't stop and ask for status during Obama administration, and they don't today. I don't see what's changed in that regard.

If MoCo didn't contact ICE at all when they were about to release a violent criminal, then yes, that would be wrong and upsetting, but that is not what happened here.

Also, are you saying that MoCo isn't submitting fingerprints of violent criminals to the FBI database? If they are not, then yes, they would be going against the law, but if they are, then what exactly is MoCo doing wrong?

As you noted in your post, immigration activists were even against Obama's administration on deporting even most violent criminals. Again, I don't see what has changed?

Are you just annoyed that Elrich put out a release that stated that local law enforcement won't be doing the fed's job of asking for legal status and rounding up illegals? It's been that way for a while, so again, not sure why Elrich's press release has you so upset. And btw, I did not vote for Elrich.

I get that. But my question is this - Who at the local level is willing to fight this? I don't want a police state, but the insistence that our own protective forces cannot do this basic, essential job is maddening.

Add to that the hype around sanctuary cities, and this situation further polarizes us. The idea of sanctuary has been around forever but it started in the 80s as a way to protect refugees. At this point, it's been "extended" to protect anyone who's here illegally.

I understand stereotyping. I know that not all illegal immigrants are criminals. But if some a**hole is pulled over for drunk driving and is arrested for almost killing someone, what's the lag time between the the LEA arrest and the ICE contact? And at this point, how does LEA determine if ICE is necessary?

the law - https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-happens-when-undocumented-immigrant-is-caught.html

After you have been arrested, the LEA may decide to contact ICE if it believes that you are an undocumented immigrant. Or, ICE may contact the LEA if it wants to interview you regarding your immigration status, which most often happens when jails input detainee information into databases shared with ICE.

In such cases, ICE will file what's called a "detainer." This means that ICE cannot get to you immediately, but is asking the police or jail to hold you for an additional amount of time so that ICE can interview you at a later time to determine whether or not to place you into removal (deportation) proceedings.

Whether or not the LEA complies with the detainer can vary widely depending on the agency, since compliance is voluntary.

Under the law, the maximum amount of additional time that someone can be held on ICE's behalf is 48 hours. If ICE does not take custody of you within those 48 hours, the law says you must be released.

So it's a big, fat guessing game that's also time-dependent.

inefficient and potentially dangerous

Why don't people question these practices? Elrich is a politician who's out for himself, as are most politicians.

unbelievable

You don't want a police state but you want someone to police illegal immigrants. That would be the job of the feds, not local law enforcement. You want to use local taxpayer money to do the fed's job of rounding up illegal immigrants. That's not how it works. If you want to pay more in federal taxes to hire more ICE agents to round up illegal immigrants, then that's what you should shoot for.

I grew up in LA, home of a large illegal immigrant population, larger than MoCo. The jails in LA are overcrowded (in part thanks to the three strikes law passed by then R governor Pete Wilson), and quite frankly, I wouldn't want local law enforcement to use up valuable space in the jails to house non violent illegal immigrants. IMO, priority should always be violent people, no matter the status.

I am not a legal professional, but from what I understand, if you are arrested for xyz and given bail, then local law enforcement cannot hold you unless there is an active warrant for your arrest and a request to hold the person is made by another law enforcement agency. That is not what happened here. If the person is deemed a flight risk or risk to public safety then the judge would not grant bail.

This rape story is tragic, as are all rape stories. But as a PP who's DH is in law enforcement stated, this story made the headlines because of the legal status of the rapist.

There was another news story about two illegal immigrant HS boys who allegedly raped a girl in the school bathroom in MoCo. The charges were ultimately dropped against the boys, and now there is a deportation order against them. But that part didn't make the national news headlines.

I knew of their deportation even though I'm not in the county any longer. It made news. But by that point, it was too late. They took advantage of the girl. (I know the story very well.)

but again - too late

I say this all the time - What if any of those children were YOUR kids? Would you still be preaching the same sermon?

Again, flight risk? If the police don't contact ICE, there's no point in discussing any of this as far as I'm concerned. And if they do and ICE isn't timely, it's still a non-issue that may put others at risk.

So you can spout off laws and guidelines all you want. At this point, something has to change. Why bother having ICE if they're not called or if they refuse to do their jobs? And why tie down the police for that matter?

It's a ridiculous circus act no matter how you look at it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But again, it's not the job of local law enforcement to find out the status. MoCo police didn't stop and ask for status during Obama administration, and they don't today. I don't see what's changed in that regard.

If MoCo didn't contact ICE at all when they were about to release a violent criminal, then yes, that would be wrong and upsetting, but that is not what happened here.

Also, are you saying that MoCo isn't submitting fingerprints of violent criminals to the FBI database? If they are not, then yes, they would be going against the law, but if they are, then what exactly is MoCo doing wrong?

As you noted in your post, immigration activists were even against Obama's administration on deporting even most violent criminals. Again, I don't see what has changed?

Are you just annoyed that Elrich put out a release that stated that local law enforcement won't be doing the fed's job of asking for legal status and rounding up illegals? It's been that way for a while, so again, not sure why Elrich's press release has you so upset. And btw, I did not vote for Elrich.

I get that. But my question is this - Who at the local level is willing to fight this? I don't want a police state, but the insistence that our own protective forces cannot do this basic, essential job is maddening.

Add to that the hype around sanctuary cities, and this situation further polarizes us. The idea of sanctuary has been around forever but it started in the 80s as a way to protect refugees. At this point, it's been "extended" to protect anyone who's here illegally.

I understand stereotyping. I know that not all illegal immigrants are criminals. But if some a**hole is pulled over for drunk driving and is arrested for almost killing someone, what's the lag time between the the LEA arrest and the ICE contact? And at this point, how does LEA determine if ICE is necessary?

the law - https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-happens-when-undocumented-immigrant-is-caught.html

After you have been arrested, the LEA may decide to contact ICE if it believes that you are an undocumented immigrant. Or, ICE may contact the LEA if it wants to interview you regarding your immigration status, which most often happens when jails input detainee information into databases shared with ICE.

In such cases, ICE will file what's called a "detainer." This means that ICE cannot get to you immediately, but is asking the police or jail to hold you for an additional amount of time so that ICE can interview you at a later time to determine whether or not to place you into removal (deportation) proceedings.

Whether or not the LEA complies with the detainer can vary widely depending on the agency, since compliance is voluntary.

Under the law, the maximum amount of additional time that someone can be held on ICE's behalf is 48 hours. If ICE does not take custody of you within those 48 hours, the law says you must be released.

So it's a big, fat guessing game that's also time-dependent.

inefficient and potentially dangerous

Why don't people question these practices? Elrich is a politician who's out for himself, as are most politicians.

unbelievable

You don't want a police state but you want someone to police illegal immigrants. That would be the job of the feds, not local law enforcement. You want to use local taxpayer money to do the fed's job of rounding up illegal immigrants. That's not how it works. If you want to pay more in federal taxes to hire more ICE agents to round up illegal immigrants, then that's what you should shoot for.

I grew up in LA, home of a large illegal immigrant population, larger than MoCo. The jails in LA are overcrowded (in part thanks to the three strikes law passed by then R governor Pete Wilson), and quite frankly, I wouldn't want local law enforcement to use up valuable space in the jails to house non violent illegal immigrants. IMO, priority should always be violent people, no matter the status.

I am not a legal professional, but from what I understand, if you are arrested for xyz and given bail, then local law enforcement cannot hold you unless there is an active warrant for your arrest and a request to hold the person is made by another law enforcement agency. That is not what happened here. If the person is deemed a flight risk or risk to public safety then the judge would not grant bail.

This rape story is tragic, as are all rape stories. But as a PP who's DH is in law enforcement stated, this story made the headlines because of the legal status of the rapist.

There was another news story about two illegal immigrant HS boys who allegedly raped a girl in the school bathroom in MoCo. The charges were ultimately dropped against the boys, and now there is a deportation order against them. But that part didn't make the national news headlines.

Anonymous wrote:I wish moco police could check everybody’s tax returns upon pulling them over and arrest all the tax dodgers.

Anonymous wrote:

But again, it's not the job of local law enforcement to find out the status. MoCo police didn't stop and ask for status during Obama administration, and they don't today. I don't see what's changed in that regard.

If MoCo didn't contact ICE at all when they were about to release a violent criminal, then yes, that would be wrong and upsetting, but that is not what happened here.

Also, are you saying that MoCo isn't submitting fingerprints of violent criminals to the FBI database? If they are not, then yes, they would be going against the law, but if they are, then what exactly is MoCo doing wrong?

As you noted in your post, immigration activists were even against Obama's administration on deporting even most violent criminals. Again, I don't see what has changed?

Are you just annoyed that Elrich put out a release that stated that local law enforcement won't be doing the fed's job of asking for legal status and rounding up illegals? It's been that way for a while, so again, not sure why Elrich's press release has you so upset. And btw, I did not vote for Elrich.

I get that. But my question is this - Who at the local level is willing to fight this? I don't want a police state, but the insistence that our own protective forces cannot do this basic, essential job is maddening.

Add to that the hype around sanctuary cities, and this situation further polarizes us. The idea of sanctuary has been around forever but it started in the 80s as a way to protect refugees. At this point, it's been "extended" to protect anyone who's here illegally.

I understand stereotyping. I know that not all illegal immigrants are criminals. But if some a**hole is pulled over for drunk driving and is arrested for almost killing someone, what's the lag time between the the LEA arrest and the ICE contact? And at this point, how does LEA determine if ICE is necessary?

the law - https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-happens-when-undocumented-immigrant-is-caught.html

After you have been arrested, the LEA may decide to contact ICE if it believes that you are an undocumented immigrant. Or, ICE may contact the LEA if it wants to interview you regarding your immigration status, which most often happens when jails input detainee information into databases shared with ICE.

In such cases, ICE will file what's called a "detainer." This means that ICE cannot get to you immediately, but is asking the police or jail to hold you for an additional amount of time so that ICE can interview you at a later time to determine whether or not to place you into removal (deportation) proceedings.

Whether or not the LEA complies with the detainer can vary widely depending on the agency, since compliance is voluntary.

Under the law, the maximum amount of additional time that someone can be held on ICE's behalf is 48 hours. If ICE does not take custody of you within those 48 hours, the law says you must be released.

So it's a big, fat guessing game that's also time-dependent.

inefficient and potentially dangerous

Why don't people question these practices? Elrich is a politician who's out for himself, as are most politicians.

unbelievable

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Eager to hear Liberals here respond to OP’s excellent questions....

They can't respond.

Obama was the worst President for immigrants and for immigration in a generation.

And the media covered it for eight years.

Mexican immigration under Obama was a net negative.

Not true.

(Yes, immigration in 2009-10 was lower given great recession, but it recovered quickly. And in any case Obama just kicked the problem along)