Anonymous
08/23/2019 11:33
Subject: Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
Funny, my BIL (oldest child) and his family like to refer to the oldest member of families as being the matriarch and patriarch. The other siblings never use the term.
Anonymous
08/23/2019 11:18
Subject: Re:Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think that a matriarch mindset exists whether or not it is articulated as such.
I believe that most conflicts between MILs and DILs are actually battles for matriarchal control of the family culture and values.
Culture and values? Such as what?
Family culture: Parenting practices, breastfeeding, childcare, egalitarian parenting or traditional gender roles, parenting girls vs. boys and how that is done, views re: screen time, how to spend holidays (formal, informal, when to open gifts, what kind of gifts are given), food, music, religion. The list goes on.
Values: Private school, public school, religious education and practice, various areas of ethics, political views.
Why would a MIL feel she had any say in any of this? Literally none of this is anyone's business but mom and dad. Breastfeeding; are you kidding?
My MIL feels like she should have a say because everyone had a say in how she raised her kids and it is her turn to boss some people around, gosh darn it. And, hey, her daughter really doesn't actually have any interest in raising her kid and let's MIL make all sorts of decisions, so why wouldn't MIL get it have input on every little decision when it comes to my kid?
Needless to say, we have a very strained, difficult relationship. DH set very firm boundaries, too.
Wow! This is exactly the situation with my MIL and my SIL. My MIL even told my DH that it was her turn to be in charge. Sadly, this has put quite a strain on both my relationship with her and also with her son. Even our adult kids think she’s crazy and controlling. She thinks a girl should be raised to honor her man and get married well and we have three well educated independent girls. You can imagine how well that goes over with his family.
Anonymous
08/23/2019 10:54
Subject: Re:Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think that a matriarch mindset exists whether or not it is articulated as such.
I believe that most conflicts between MILs and DILs are actually battles for matriarchal control of the family culture and values.
Culture and values? Such as what?
Family culture: Parenting practices, breastfeeding, childcare, egalitarian parenting or traditional gender roles, parenting girls vs. boys and how that is done, views re: screen time, how to spend holidays (formal, informal, when to open gifts, what kind of gifts are given), food, music, religion. The list goes on.
Values: Private school, public school, religious education and practice, various areas of ethics, political views.
Why would a MIL feel she had any say in any of this? Literally none of this is anyone's business but mom and dad. Breastfeeding; are you kidding?
My MIL feels like she should have a say because everyone had a say in how she raised her kids and it is her turn to boss some people around, gosh darn it. And, hey, her daughter really doesn't actually have any interest in raising her kid and let's MIL make all sorts of decisions, so why wouldn't MIL get it have input on every little decision when it comes to my kid?
Needless to say, we have a very strained, difficult relationship. DH set very firm boundaries, too.
Anonymous
08/23/2019 10:51
Subject: Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My gosh, I have such positive feelings about family matriarchs. I guess it’s cultural. I’m mixed AA. For my extended family to have elder women as a resource speaks volumes about resilience and strong bonds of kinship. My grandmother never had a lot of money, but she had wisdom, endless love, the ability to conjure amazing meals out of scraps, patience, and just an all-around healing presence. She was a leader in our community. Of course, we all gathered in her home for holidays and other meaningful events. When she passed away, no one else immediately emerged to lead the family and we all drifted away. The next two decades saw some bad times. My mom isn’t cut out temperamentally to handle being matriarch and her sister is too ill. My cousins and I would love to give our kids that same experience, but I think it’s too late.
Just last month, I witnessed over 200 people travel from 20 states and three nations to honor a distant relative by marriage turning 75. Standing on DH’s family land that her own grandfather defended from the KKK and looking out at teachers, lawyers, engineers, doctors, bankers, authors, government officials, and law enforcement officers in the family she led filled me with awe.
So there are no men in your family of your mother’s generation? Why can’t any of them host, invite, cook, foster family relationships?
+1
Yup. Because it’s a woman’s job, PP. (eye roll)
Anonymous
08/23/2019 10:15
Subject: Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
Anonymous wrote:My gosh, I have such positive feelings about family matriarchs. I guess it’s cultural. I’m mixed AA. For my extended family to have elder women as a resource speaks volumes about resilience and strong bonds of kinship. My grandmother never had a lot of money, but she had wisdom, endless love, the ability to conjure amazing meals out of scraps, patience, and just an all-around healing presence. She was a leader in our community. Of course, we all gathered in her home for holidays and other meaningful events. When she passed away, no one else immediately emerged to lead the family and we all drifted away. The next two decades saw some bad times. My mom isn’t cut out temperamentally to handle being matriarch and her sister is too ill. My cousins and I would love to give our kids that same experience, but I think it’s too late.
Just last month, I witnessed over 200 people travel from 20 states and three nations to honor a distant relative by marriage turning 75. Standing on DH’s family land that her own grandfather defended from the KKK and looking out at teachers, lawyers, engineers, doctors, bankers, authors, government officials, and law enforcement officers in the family she led filled me with awe.
So there are no men in your family of your mother’s generation? Why can’t any of them host, invite, cook, foster family relationships?
Anonymous
08/23/2019 10:05
Subject: Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
My gosh, I have such positive feelings about family matriarchs. I guess it’s cultural. I’m mixed AA. For my extended family to have elder women as a resource speaks volumes about resilience and strong bonds of kinship. My grandmother never had a lot of money, but she had wisdom, endless love, the ability to conjure amazing meals out of scraps, patience, and just an all-around healing presence. She was a leader in our community. Of course, we all gathered in her home for holidays and other meaningful events. When she passed away, no one else immediately emerged to lead the family and we all drifted away. The next two decades saw some bad times. My mom isn’t cut out temperamentally to handle being matriarch and her sister is too ill. My cousins and I would love to give our kids that same experience, but I think it’s too late.
Just last month, I witnessed over 200 people travel from 20 states and three nations to honor a distant relative by marriage turning 75. Standing on DH’s family land that her own grandfather defended from the KKK and looking out at teachers, lawyers, engineers, doctors, bankers, authors, government officials, and law enforcement officers in the family she led filled me with awe.
Just last month, I witnessed over 200 people travel from 20 states and three nations to honor a distant relative by marriage turning 75. Standing on DH’s family land that her own grandfather defended from the KKK and looking out at teachers, lawyers, engineers, doctors, bankers, authors, government officials, and law enforcement officers in the family she led filled me with awe.
Anonymous
08/23/2019 09:47
Subject: Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The matriarch and patriarch are just the oldest living parent of their progeny. It doesn’t confer any privileges.
Actually, most people use this term to mean "HBIC," if you will. "An older woman who is powerful within a family OR ORGANIZATION" is the second line of the Merriam-Webster entry.
No one talks about Rose Kennedy's role in her family simply as being the oldest living parent.
-1
All someone has to say is "Rose Kennedy" - people do not have to give her a title, since they know full well who she is. If your MIL is so important and has made such "amazing" contributions, people will know without trying to put her on a pedestal. Spitting out a bunch of kids and basically ignoring them does not make someone a "matriarch" - Rose Kennedy will go down in history, not so much the latter.
Anonymous
08/23/2019 06:29
Subject: Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
Anonymous wrote:The matriarch and patriarch are just the oldest living parent of their progeny. It doesn’t confer any privileges.
Actually, most people use this term to mean "HBIC," if you will. "An older woman who is powerful within a family OR ORGANIZATION" is the second line of the Merriam-Webster entry.
No one talks about Rose Kennedy's role in her family simply as being the oldest living parent.
Anonymous
08/23/2019 00:01
Subject: Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
The matriarch and patriarch are just the oldest living parent of their progeny. It doesn’t confer any privileges.
Anonymous
08/22/2019 21:47
Subject: Re:Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think that a matriarch mindset exists whether or not it is articulated as such.
I believe that most conflicts between MILs and DILs are actually battles for matriarchal control of the family culture and values.
Culture and values? Such as what?
NP I'd agree with this. I have big differences of opinion as to how I want holidays celebrated. I want sit down dinners. I want screaming children at 6am opening presents while we all drink hot cocoa. I want it joyous and happy. MIL wants appetizers on paper plates. Kids have to stay in our room until everyone is done showering (10 am last time). She's extremely informal, no alcohol. Our two ways just can't coexist. I don't have the same issues with how my mom celebrates. My mom asks for our opinions and we don't have to spend the night at her house, she comes to ours.
PP here. Yes, exactly. Battle for the family culture. Son gets married to a woman who was raised a certain way. By and large, women set the cultural tone for family life. New family the couple forms is more heavily influenced by wife's culture than by the husband's. MIL, the matriarch, feels threatened or otherwise distressed about this. Conflict ensues.
This but I feel it's mainly because the MIL feels that she is the matriarch and the control is all hers. If she tries to control the DIL then naturally conflict will happen. I do feel that the idea of a matriarch is old fashioned for the younger generations.
I do think the younger generation doesn't feel the need to obey elders like they did in the past. If older parents are rude or obnoxious I see more young people distancing themselves so the typical matriarch isn't going to work and that's a good thing. I don't often hear of a matriarch as being a positive influence in a family they are usually controlling and demanding.
+1
This exactly. Only, it’s my mother and me and not a DIL. Huge difference between the generations. And yes, the concept of a matriarch is absurd and passé. It’s very paternalistic, actually. This concept really comes from a time when men had the ultimate control and older women finally had some kind of control as heads of their families regarding culture and female arts.
+1
ie: ie: "when the FIL dies, the MIL thinks she is in charge." LOL.
Anonymous
08/22/2019 20:39
Subject: Re:Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think that a matriarch mindset exists whether or not it is articulated as such.
I believe that most conflicts between MILs and DILs are actually battles for matriarchal control of the family culture and values.
Culture and values? Such as what?
NP I'd agree with this. I have big differences of opinion as to how I want holidays celebrated. I want sit down dinners. I want screaming children at 6am opening presents while we all drink hot cocoa. I want it joyous and happy. MIL wants appetizers on paper plates. Kids have to stay in our room until everyone is done showering (10 am last time). She's extremely informal, no alcohol. Our two ways just can't coexist. I don't have the same issues with how my mom celebrates. My mom asks for our opinions and we don't have to spend the night at her house, she comes to ours.
PP here. Yes, exactly. Battle for the family culture. Son gets married to a woman who was raised a certain way. By and large, women set the cultural tone for family life. New family the couple forms is more heavily influenced by wife's culture than by the husband's. MIL, the matriarch, feels threatened or otherwise distressed about this. Conflict ensues.
This but I feel it's mainly because the MIL feels that she is the matriarch and the control is all hers. If she tries to control the DIL then naturally conflict will happen. I do feel that the idea of a matriarch is old fashioned for the younger generations.
I do think the younger generation doesn't feel the need to obey elders like they did in the past. If older parents are rude or obnoxious I see more young people distancing themselves so the typical matriarch isn't going to work and that's a good thing. I don't often hear of a matriarch as being a positive influence in a family they are usually controlling and demanding.
+1
This exactly. Only, it’s my mother and me and not a DIL. Huge difference between the generations. And yes, the concept of a matriarch is absurd and passé. It’s very paternalistic, actually. This concept really comes from a time when men had the ultimate control and older women finally had some kind of control as heads of their families regarding culture and female arts.
Anonymous
08/22/2019 20:24
Subject: Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
Absolutely YES.
Anonymous
08/22/2019 19:13
Subject: Re:Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think that a matriarch mindset exists whether or not it is articulated as such.
I believe that most conflicts between MILs and DILs are actually battles for matriarchal control of the family culture and values.
Culture and values? Such as what?
NP I'd agree with this. I have big differences of opinion as to how I want holidays celebrated. I want sit down dinners. I want screaming children at 6am opening presents while we all drink hot cocoa. I want it joyous and happy. MIL wants appetizers on paper plates. Kids have to stay in our room until everyone is done showering (10 am last time). She's extremely informal, no alcohol. Our two ways just can't coexist. I don't have the same issues with how my mom celebrates. My mom asks for our opinions and we don't have to spend the night at her house, she comes to ours.
PP here. Yes, exactly. Battle for the family culture. Son gets married to a woman who was raised a certain way. By and large, women set the cultural tone for family life. New family the couple forms is more heavily influenced by wife's culture than by the husband's. MIL, the matriarch, feels threatened or otherwise distressed about this. Conflict ensues.
Well, at least in this scenario, the MIL has a right to be involved/have an opinion, because how everyone celebrates a holiday does include her and she should have some say, on a general level. Now, when it is agreed that DIL will be hosting, you basically fall in line. So I'm not saying MIL should get her way in someone else's home; I'm just saying there's room for overall discussion on how the family celebrates holidays.
PP, I think your two ways could coexist! Fancy/"formal" appetizer dinner--I've seen it done. Not saying you have to, just saying there might be a middle ground.
Anonymous
08/22/2019 18:48
Subject: Re:Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think that a matriarch mindset exists whether or not it is articulated as such.
I believe that most conflicts between MILs and DILs are actually battles for matriarchal control of the family culture and values.
Culture and values? Such as what?
NP I'd agree with this. I have big differences of opinion as to how I want holidays celebrated. I want sit down dinners. I want screaming children at 6am opening presents while we all drink hot cocoa. I want it joyous and happy. MIL wants appetizers on paper plates. Kids have to stay in our room until everyone is done showering (10 am last time). She's extremely informal, no alcohol. Our two ways just can't coexist. I don't have the same issues with how my mom celebrates. My mom asks for our opinions and we don't have to spend the night at her house, she comes to ours.
PP here. Yes, exactly. Battle for the family culture. Son gets married to a woman who was raised a certain way. By and large, women set the cultural tone for family life. New family the couple forms is more heavily influenced by wife's culture than by the husband's. MIL, the matriarch, feels threatened or otherwise distressed about this. Conflict ensues.
This but I feel it's mainly because the MIL feels that she is the matriarch and the control is all hers. If she tries to control the DIL then naturally conflict will happen. I do feel that the idea of a matriarch is old fashioned for the younger generations.
I do think the younger generation doesn't feel the need to obey elders like they did in the past. If older parents are rude or obnoxious I see more young people distancing themselves so the typical matriarch isn't going to work and that's a good thing. I don't often hear of a matriarch as being a positive influence in a family they are usually controlling and demanding.
Anonymous
08/22/2019 18:40
Subject: Re:Is the concept of a matriarch passe?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think that a matriarch mindset exists whether or not it is articulated as such.
I believe that most conflicts between MILs and DILs are actually battles for matriarchal control of the family culture and values.
Culture and values? Such as what?
Family culture: Parenting practices, breastfeeding, childcare, egalitarian parenting or traditional gender roles, parenting girls vs. boys and how that is done, views re: screen time, how to spend holidays (formal, informal, when to open gifts, what kind of gifts are given), food, music, religion. The list goes on.
Values: Private school, public school, religious education and practice, various areas of ethics, political views.
Why would a MIL feel she had any say in any of this? Literally none of this is anyone's business but mom and dad. Breastfeeding; are you kidding?