Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the alternative? There aren't enough people willing to be subs. Raising sub pay? I am asking sincerely.

+1 I don't know what the answer is, but there is a shortage of teachers and subs. The only way to get more qualified people as subs is to raise the pay pretty significantly, because when I looked at the sub pay rate, it was terrible. But where would the money come from? No one wants their taxes raised.

Everyone wants low taxes and quality teachers. Those two don't go together.

Please. The County finds money for all sorts of pet projects when it wants to. 40 million in tax breaks for Marriott to "relocate" a few minutes down the road. This is about priorities. In Singapore, teachers are paid like professionals, and they get professional teachers and have among the highest test scores globally.

Anonymous wrote:They said the new policy puts MCPS in line with all surrounding jurisdictions. If it works there, seems like it's worth a try here as a potential solution for a persistent problem.

It doesn’t work in those districts either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you raise the pay of subs you will get more qualified people wanting to be subs. From what I've heard, the pay rate hasn't improved in over 10 years. Of course you need tap people without a BA, because people with a college degree need and deserve higher pay.

Sub pay:

For "certificated" subs: short-term $19.58/hr, long-term $27.89/hr.

For "non-certificated" subs: short-term $18.41/hr, long-term $26.28/hr.

Montgomery County minimum wage is currently $13/hr and will rise to $14/hr on July 1, 2020, and $15/hr on July 1, 2021.

Sadly that is much more than FCPS pays! I think they pay around $12/hour.

Good grief. I'm shocked too.

Anonymous wrote:My brother was a sub when he was in graduate school for a professional degree. He has an undergrad degree but not in teaching and no teaching certificate. That seems like one possible pool.

Also, do they have a two-tiered system? I can see where for some situations (last minute absence) they just need a warm body to play a video and give hall passes. But clearly they need better professionals for longer term sub gigs. Seems like they should be paid at a rate more like regular teachers.

I feel like three-tiered would be even better:

Last minute, unplanned absences vs. Planned short-term absences vs. Planned long-term absences

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you raise the pay of subs you will get more qualified people wanting to be subs. From what I've heard, the pay rate hasn't improved in over 10 years. Of course you need tap people without a BA, because people with a college degree need and deserve higher pay.

Sub pay:

For "certificated" subs: short-term $19.58/hr, long-term $27.89/hr.

For "non-certificated" subs: short-term $18.41/hr, long-term $26.28/hr.

Montgomery County minimum wage is currently $13/hr and will rise to $14/hr on July 1, 2020, and $15/hr on July 1, 2021.

Sadly that is much more than FCPS pays! I think they pay around $12/hour.

My brother was a sub when he was in graduate school for a professional degree. He has an undergrad degree but not in teaching and no teaching certificate. That seems like one possible pool.

Also, do they have a two-tiered system? I can see where for some situations (last minute absence) they just need a warm body to play a video and give hall passes. But clearly they need better professionals for longer term sub gigs. Seems like they should be paid at a rate more like regular teachers.

Honestly, first we need more bodies and then we can figure out how to attract more quality subs. Some of the existing subs are so bad, and I don’t think a 4 year degree ensures quality. There’s nothing that says 2 more years of schooling will help someone with following sub plans for a day or two. The qualified teacher is the one who writes the plans, and the most important thing for a sub is that they command authority and earn respect from the students so the behaviors don’t get out of control. They don’t necessarily need a Bachelor’s degree for that. And, honestly, understanding and speaking fluent English helps a lot too. Some of the subs with 4 year degrees can barely communicate in English which only makes things harder.

We have staff members (professional and para) covering for a classroom teacher who is out pretty much every day. That seriously interferes with school operations. When someone is covering for someone else, they’re unable to do their own jobs. Last year we had minimal para support because they were always being pulled to cover a job that wasn’t picked up in the system. Our ESOL teachers and academic intervention teachers were pulled to cover classes as well. Or a non classroom teacher secured a sub in advance, took the time to write detailed sub plans, and then that sub is pulled to cover a classroom because no one picked up that job. It’s frustrating for the teacher who took the time to get a good sub and write plans and then their sub is pulled. It also makes subs not want to return to buildings where they accept one job but are switched to another when they arrive. Some will refuse but most don’t know they can and admin takes advantage of that. The current system is not working and I’m all for getting more people into the sub system. —Elementary teacher.

Our ES is lucky to have a couple of retired kindergarten teachers who live in the neighborhood and often sub for the littlest kids (K-2), especially if regular teachers go on maternity leave. One of them was already retired before my kids started (oldest is a rising 5th grader) but the kids still know her by name and greet her when she's walking her dog, etc. It's really nice, but I'm sure it doesn't get any school all the subs they need.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They said the new policy puts MCPS in line with all surrounding jurisdictions. If it works there, seems like it's worth a try here as a potential solution for a persistent problem.

So all the surrounding jurisdictions pay subs not much more than minimum wage?

They were referring to minimum qualifications, not wages.

https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/BDPKE55169C3/$file/Sub%20Tchr%20Qualifications%20Staffing%20190711.pdf

Anonymous wrote:Horrible.

Just another reason to save our money and probably just send our kid to private school when she gets to be that age ...

Your are happy to pay taxes to pay for public schools AND pay for private school? Gosh, you must be rolling in the dough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you raise the pay of subs you will get more qualified people wanting to be subs. From what I've heard, the pay rate hasn't improved in over 10 years. Of course you need tap people without a BA, because people with a college degree need and deserve higher pay.

Sub pay:

For "certificated" subs: short-term $19.58/hr, long-term $27.89/hr.

For "non-certificated" subs: short-term $18.41/hr, long-term $26.28/hr.

Montgomery County minimum wage is currently $13/hr and will rise to $14/hr on July 1, 2020, and $15/hr on July 1, 2021.

FWIW, Fairfax pays its subs a lot less and doesn’t require a BS. I subbed for several years and can honestly say that most of the subs were awful. These counties have done studies and solicited teacher feedback about how to address the shortage and have largely ignored everything they’ve been told.

What were the recommendations?

Anonymous wrote:What's the alternative? There aren't enough people willing to be subs. Raising sub pay? I am asking sincerely.

+1 I don't know what the answer is, but there is a shortage of teachers and subs. The only way to get more qualified people as subs is to raise the pay pretty significantly, because when I looked at the sub pay rate, it was terrible. But where would the money come from? No one wants their taxes raised.

Everyone wants low taxes and quality teachers. Those two don't go together.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps requiring credits but not a degree would allow college students interested in teaching but not in a formal teaching program or not in their student teaching semester to do it?

I don’t think you have to worry about one sick day. I agree that the longer you’re out the bigger of a concern it becomes. And I also agree that qualifications for long term subs should be different than subs who are only there a day or two. Ten seems long.

Are you kidding? The kids would eat a college age sub alive. They can sense in 20 seconds which subs they can walk all over.

I think that is more personality and experience working with kids. Plenty of college students have been camp counselors, babysitters, swim team or other sport coaches, etc. Sending college students into a high school might be more problematic, but that's true of recent graduates too. I had friends in college who graduated and went right into teaching. I thought about it and couldn't imagine going right into teaching HS after college. I still saw HS students as more like peers than little kids, and I think it would have been a challenge to maintain their respect and to assert authority over them as a recent college graduate. But I don't think there's a huge difference in that regard between being 20 and being 22.

Anonymous wrote:They said the new policy puts MCPS in line with all surrounding jurisdictions. If it works there, seems like it's worth a try here as a potential solution for a persistent problem.

So all the surrounding jurisdictions pay subs not much more than minimum wage?

Yes, for low pay and all the MCPS discipline problems you should expect subs to do nothing more than play a movie for the students. You think Socrates is going to apply for that job? Get real.