Anonymous
07/03/2019 15:14
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have no hate for legal immigration. Illegal immigration is wrong. People are basically overloading the system and destroying our border and BP. They are using “it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission” and trampling over the border.
Partly because they know there are jobs available. Crack down on employers, reduce demand, and the supply will be reduced too.
And then we will END UP LIKE JAPAN! Why would you want that! jobs are available means that our economy needs them.
It means the jobs need to pay more if they are going unfilled.
Illegal immigration leads to artificially lower wages. Without the illegal immigrants working for pennies on the dollar, workers would be getting better wages for these positions.
Read the articles on Japan. There are literally not enough workers to fill the jobs. If your idea is that we will pay health care aides as much as lawyers -- well, how does that fit into the economy?
Also, there's very little/no evidence that immigrants artificially lower wages. And the way to prevent that would be to legalize them ... and then give workers full labor rights back.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 15:01
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have no hate for legal immigration. Illegal immigration is wrong. People are basically overloading the system and destroying our border and BP. They are using “it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission” and trampling over the border.
Partly because they know there are jobs available. Crack down on employers, reduce demand, and the supply will be reduced too.
+1 not a hard concept. They come here because they know someone will give them a job. Kill the demand; supply will dry out.
I don't blame desperate poor people for traveling hundreds if not thousands of miles to get a job. Many of our ancestors did it, and yes, some of our ancestors came here illegally and/or lied to get in.
This would kill our economy and mean you are taken care of a robot in your old age.
Trumpsters seem to think it will be fine, that they will just pay a lot for elder care, as if they will have the money to do so. They seem to think if only farmers would pay $25/hour to farm laborers, with good benefits and vacation, then real Americans will take those jobs. They don't seem to think it through. If the farmer pays their workers that much, how do they think the farmer will make a profit?
And before someone says, "oh you liberals who want your cheap organic strawberries.." .. why should only rich people be able to afford organic strawberries, and do you really think Ivanka and Melania eat cheap strawberries from MX? I'm not rich but I want my family to eat organic whenever possible. That doesn't mean I sanction illegal immigration. It just means I realize that there is a need for cheaper labor, be it by H2A visas or what not.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 14:49
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have no hate for legal immigration. Illegal immigration is wrong. People are basically overloading the system and destroying our border and BP. They are using “it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission” and trampling over the border.
Partly because they know there are jobs available. Crack down on employers, reduce demand, and the supply will be reduced too.
And then we will END UP LIKE JAPAN! Why would you want that! jobs are available means that our economy needs them.
It means the jobs need to pay more if they are going unfilled.
Illegal immigration leads to artificially lower wages. Without the illegal immigrants working for pennies on the dollar, workers would be getting better wages for these positions.
DP.. you tell that to the R farmers and Trump's own hotels that hire illegal immigrants. It's not the liberals who don't to raise wages.
It's a bit self serving to support a party where many don't want to raise wages; hire illegal immigrants, and then blame them for this country's woes.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 14:43
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have no hate for legal immigration. Illegal immigration is wrong. People are basically overloading the system and destroying our border and BP. They are using “it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission” and trampling over the border.
Partly because they know there are jobs available. Crack down on employers, reduce demand, and the supply will be reduced too.
And then we will END UP LIKE JAPAN! Why would you want that! jobs are available means that our economy needs them.
It means the jobs need to pay more if they are going unfilled.
Illegal immigration leads to artificially lower wages. Without the illegal immigrants working for pennies on the dollar, workers would be getting better wages for these positions.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 14:41
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have no hate for legal immigration. Illegal immigration is wrong. People are basically overloading the system and destroying our border and BP. They are using “it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission” and trampling over the border.
Partly because they know there are jobs available. Crack down on employers, reduce demand, and the supply will be reduced too.
+1 not a hard concept. They come here because they know someone will give them a job. Kill the demand; supply will dry out.
I don't blame desperate poor people for traveling hundreds if not thousands of miles to get a job. Many of our ancestors did it, and yes, some of our ancestors came here illegally and/or lied to get in.
+1 to both of these!
Anonymous
07/03/2019 14:08
Subject: Re:immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just stop.
Illegal immigration is wrong. Period.
Legal immigration is great - let's stop illegal immigration so we can have more legal immigration.
And this statement...."If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform."............
If you really believe this, you need to inform your candidates. Because, their statements indicate that they are just fine with illegal immigration.
+1000
Legal immigration is fine, immigrants should not be a burden on the country.
Illegal immigrants are.
That’s why trump is getting re-elected.
Why are illegal immigrants a burden on the country? What is it about their legal status that creates the burden?
Anonymous
07/03/2019 14:05
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that we’ll ever end up exactly like Japan (too many cultural differences) but something will probably have to give. I don’t think immigration is the sole answer, getting Americans to have kids would also help. But in order to make an appreciable difference there, we’d need to let go of treating child rearing as an extracurricular, individual responsibility activity and enact family-friendly policies to acknowledge that raising the next generation benefits the society as a whole.
But there would also need to be changes to make Americans willing to take jobs currently filled almost exclusively by immigrants. Buttigieg touched on this during the debate- something like, there needs to be a path to earning a decent living even if you don’t go to college. We as a society would need to be willing to pay more for many services, and the govt would have to be willing to crack down on employers that cheat and hire illegals to save $.
Sometimes all of these challenges feel so hopeless.
I don't think the challenges are hopeless. We just need a rational immigration policy. A plan of somehow convincing white women to have more babies for "the nation" by providing more financial benefits is not likely to substitute for the need for more unskilled labor. We need to focus on legalizing labor.
In nations where women have easy access to education and birth control, birth rates drop. Liberal policies towards parental leave and childcare don't reverse the trend. We see the same slow population decline and aging across Europe, just to a lesser extent than in Japan. Europe is also more welcoming to immigrants than Japan. The US has a small positive population growth due to immigration.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 13:20
Subject: Re:immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Just stop.
Illegal immigration is wrong. Period.
Legal immigration is great - let's stop illegal immigration so we can have more legal immigration.
And this statement...."If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform."............
If you really believe this, you need to inform your candidates. Because, their statements indicate that they are just fine with illegal immigration.
+1000
Legal immigration is fine, immigrants should not be a burden on the country.
Illegal immigrants are.
That’s why trump is getting re-elected.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 10:13
Subject: Re:immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just stop.
Illegal immigration is wrong. Period.
Legal immigration is great - let's stop illegal immigration so we can have more legal immigration.
And this statement...."If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform."............
If you really believe this, you need to inform your candidates. Because, their statements indicate that they are just fine with illegal immigration.
You do realize that republicans pay lip service to illegal immigration while turning a blind eye to businesses that employ them (or in many cases, like the Prez, employing them themselves), right? Have you informed your elected officials that you’d like less grandstanding at the border and actual action to curb illegal immigration?
This is a feature, not a bug. Keeping the unskilled workforce undocumented allows capital to further suppress labor rights, which in turn, hurts the ability of everyone to organize. Although I have posted extensively on here about how illegal and legal immigration are a net positive to the economy, research does show that it depresses wages for native-born low-skilled workers. What we need is not fewer immigrants, but rather full legal status for all workers.
So how do you square the two bolded parts of your thought? Why should native-born low-skilled workers suffer lower wages? Research also shows that the effect of low-skilled immigration doesn't just affect the bottom quintile but all 4 lower quintiles except the top one. The effect of this is very pronounced. It's naive for you to suggest that only low-skilled workers are impacted.
The wage depression happens specifically because they are illegal. legalize their status and everyone competes on an equal footing. Cutting off all low-skilled immigration (legal or illegal) will tank our economy for everyone.
also, our libertarian friends at Cato debunk the notion that immigration decreases native-born wages: https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2017/does-immigration-reduce-wages
Anonymous
07/03/2019 09:58
Subject: Re:immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just stop.
Illegal immigration is wrong. Period.
Legal immigration is great - let's stop illegal immigration so we can have more legal immigration.
And this statement...."If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform."............
If you really believe this, you need to inform your candidates. Because, their statements indicate that they are just fine with illegal immigration.
You do realize that republicans pay lip service to illegal immigration while turning a blind eye to businesses that employ them (or in many cases, like the Prez, employing them themselves), right? Have you informed your elected officials that you’d like less grandstanding at the border and actual action to curb illegal immigration?
This is a feature, not a bug. Keeping the unskilled workforce undocumented allows capital to further suppress labor rights, which in turn, hurts the ability of everyone to organize. Although I have posted extensively on here about how illegal and legal immigration are a net positive to the economy, research does show that it depresses wages for native-born low-skilled workers. What we need is not fewer immigrants, but rather full legal status for all workers.
So how do you square the two bolded parts of your thought? Why should native-born low-skilled workers suffer lower wages? Research also shows that the effect of low-skilled immigration doesn't just affect the bottom quintile but all 4 lower quintiles except the top one. The effect of this is very pronounced. It's naive for you to suggest that only low-skilled workers are impacted.
The wage depression happens specifically because they are illegal. legalize their status and everyone competes on an equal footing. Cutting off all low-skilled immigration (legal or illegal) will tank our economy for everyone.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 09:56
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have no hate for legal immigration. Illegal immigration is wrong. People are basically overloading the system and destroying our border and BP. They are using “it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission” and trampling over the border.
Partly because they know there are jobs available. Crack down on employers, reduce demand, and the supply will be reduced too.
+1 not a hard concept. They come here because they know someone will give them a job. Kill the demand; supply will dry out.
I don't blame desperate poor people for traveling hundreds if not thousands of miles to get a job. Many of our ancestors did it, and yes, some of our ancestors came here illegally and/or lied to get in.
This would kill our economy and mean you are taken care of a robot in your old age.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 09:56
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have no hate for legal immigration. Illegal immigration is wrong. People are basically overloading the system and destroying our border and BP. They are using “it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission” and trampling over the border.
Partly because they know there are jobs available. Crack down on employers, reduce demand, and the supply will be reduced too.
And then we will END UP LIKE JAPAN! Why would you want that! jobs are available means that our economy needs them.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 09:41
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have no hate for legal immigration. Illegal immigration is wrong. People are basically overloading the system and destroying our border and BP. They are using “it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission” and trampling over the border.
Partly because they know there are jobs available. Crack down on employers, reduce demand, and the supply will be reduced too.
+1 not a hard concept. They come here because they know someone will give them a job. Kill the demand; supply will dry out.
I don't blame desperate poor people for traveling hundreds if not thousands of miles to get a job. Many of our ancestors did it, and yes, some of our ancestors came here illegally and/or lied to get in.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:57
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:I have no hate for legal immigration. Illegal immigration is wrong. People are basically overloading the system and destroying our border and BP. They are using “it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission” and trampling over the border.
Partly because they know there are jobs available. Crack down on employers, reduce demand, and the supply will be reduced too.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:53
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
I have no hate for legal immigration. Illegal immigration is wrong. People are basically overloading the system and destroying our border and BP. They are using “it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission” and trampling over the border.